helmut
Member
In other words, you took the liberty to add to Scripture the counting you consider correct. With this addition, the point is clear, of course.I took the liberty to highlight where the ten commandments are found in red above in the scriptures you quoted and counted them for you.
But I don't speak about the text with added enumerations, I speak about the text as inspired by God.
In post #475 you have an abridged form of the text with another addition (Jewish numbering). How would you react if I accuse you to deny Scripture because you don't accept this addition?
You (or more precisely: we) count ten, the Jews count nine (after a first word, which is no commandment). The RC church almost counts 9 also, using the Jewish numbering, omitting the first word which is no commandment, and then splits the last commandment into two (which is wrong, since this results in Exodus and Deuteronomy having two different "9th commandment"s).
It is clear the text allows different subdivisions, and the only argument you bring for the correctness of our subdivision runs as "if I add our enumeration to the text, the text shows our enumeration is correct". Well, if I add the Jewish enumeration to the text, the text "shows" the Jews are right, so what?
We can count 10 commandments, the Jews can count only 9 commandments, and I see no argument why one counting is better than the other. Do you want to say the enumeration is correct, because it leads to 10 commandments?Quite easily because there are ten commandments in God's "ten words" written in Exodus 20:2-17.
Well, it does make sense when translated from Hebrew into German, there are ten words (Worte, not Wörter, you look only at the latter meaning of "words"). If the difference between English and German is so that you cannot use word here, (i.e. the difference in meaning between the two plurals of Wort does not exist in English word), then use another term (saying seems to be a good candidate).And what was demonstrated earlier was that your making straw-man arguments that no one is talking about. The Hebrew words used for the English tranaslation of ten commandments (הדברים: עשׂרת) which translates as "ten words" in the English is translated as "ten commandments" because it does not make sense in when translated from Hebrew to English.
I simply deny that "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery" is a commandment. And you cannot deny that this can be considered the first of the 10 "words", since the Jews do so.Fact of the matter is that these "Ten words" are "Ten Commandment" written so in the "Ten words" and this is what you deny right?
Well, and you "have been shown" that there are only 9 commandments in post #475. Simply showing that an interpretation exists, is no proof it is the only correct one.despite being shown they are there are ten commandments in Exodus 20:2-17
To sum up your arguments:
- If one adds our counting to the text, the text supports our counting.
- Since our counting say there are 10 commandments, there are ten commandments and any other counting is simply incorrect.
- Dictionary entries which say "commandment" is a possible (though less frequent) translation of dabar (word) show this must be the only possible translation in Ex 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4.
- When I disregard entries that are certainly influenced be the "10 commandments" tradition (and therefore biased) I am not honest.
- When I say that our counting is not the only one, but there is a different counting (from the Jews) which also cannot be shown to be incorrect (hence both countings have equal weight), I am disobedient to God.
And is this really so important that you cannot let it stand as "let anyone count them as he wants, as long as he does not deny a single sentence in Ex 20-2-17"?
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