Any Jews on this forum

[Exegete12]

Hi there, are there any Jews on this forum. So far I am coming across a lot of Hindus, Muslims, pagans, atheists, etc but no Jews. Does anyone know of them?

 

[urnotme]

There is a few of them. http://www.christianforums.com/t2198173-the-kosher-judaism-thread.html

 

[arunma]

They probably won't be coming back until tomorrow, since today is their Shabbat.

 

[xAtheistx]

http://www.christianforums.com/t2198173-the-kosher-judaism-thread.html

 

[male]

What you want from Jews?

 

[alerj123]

Jews think all others inferior to them. They have belief that other persons have been created to serve them only.

Not quite, my friend. What exactly makes you think that? You may forget, but Jesus Christ was a jew, and the old testiment which is a large part of your holy text is also the holy text of the jews. Im curious though, why you think that jews think that all others are inferior to them?

By the way, although i have an atheist symbol, I consider my self a jew. My family is jewish and being Jewish is as much a culture as a religion. For this site though, i thought it more relevent for me to have the atheist symbol.

EDIT:

sry, i didn't see that you were a muslim at first. But do you realize that the Koran is very very similar to the old testament?

 

[AlexandraB]

Jews think all others inferior to them. They have belief that other persons have been created to serve them only.

"However," he added, "I realise this is a deeply offensive and sweeping statement, and extemely generalised, because all religions have extemists, egoists, fanatics and those, who like me, tend to put things out of context and exaggerate. Moslems have this idea too, so I can't really criticise, can I...?"

Wow, male, you are so warm-hearted and self-deprecating! What a credit you are to this forum!

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

They probably won't be coming back until tomorrow, since today is their Shabbat.

It's over already here in Israel.

Jews think all others inferior to them. They have belief that other persons have been created to serve them only.

This is wrong, i.e. it's incorrect, i.e. it's a lie.

One of the more misunderstood concepts of Judaism is the "Chosen People" thing. First, let me cite http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm:

Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This has been the majority rule since the days of the Talmud. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d.

Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d's chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" literally mean "underneath the mountain"!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations.

Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah.

Rabbi Shraga Simmons writes (in his article: "The Chosen People: Appreciating an Often Misunderstood Idea", see http://www.aish.com/literacy/concepts/The_Chosen_People.asp):

The Jewish nation is often referred to as "the Chosen People."

Many people (including Jews) are uncomfortable with this idea. They perceive the concept of a "Chosen People" as racist and mindful of the Nazi concept of a supreme "Aryan" nation. It appears to contradict the accepted Western ideal of all people being equal before God.

Is the Jewish concept of choseness racist?

When the Torah refers to the Jewish people as "chosen," it is not in any way asserting that Jews are racially superior. Americans, Russians, Europeans, Asians and Ethiopians are all part of the Jewish people. It is impossible to define choseness as anything related to race, since Jews are racially diverse.

Yet while the term "Chosen People" (Am Nivchar - Deut. 7:6) does not mean racially superior, choseness does imply a special uniqueness.

What is this uniqueness?

Historically, it goes back to Abraham. Abraham lived in a world steeped in idolatry, which he concluded was contradicted by the reality of design in nature.

So Abraham came to a belief in God, and took upon himself the mission of teaching others of the monotheistic ideal. Abraham was even willing to suffer persecution for his beliefs. After years of enormous effort, dedication and a willingness to accept the responsibility to be God's representative in this world, God chose Abraham and his descendents to be the teachers of this monotheistic message.

In other words it is not so much that God chose the Jews; it is more accurate that the Jews (through Abraham) chose God.

(...).

The essence of being chosen means responsibility. It is a responsibility to change the world -- not by converting everyone to Judaism, but by living as a model community upheld by ethics, morals and beliefs of one God. In that way, we can influence the rest of mankind, a "light unto the nations" (Isaiah 42:6).

(...).

Further, Judaism is not exclusionary. A human being need not to be Jewish to reach a high spiritual level. Enoch "walked with God," and Noah had quite a high level of relationship, though neither were Jewish. Our tradition is that all of the 70 nations must function together and play an integral part in that "being" called humanity.

The flipside of being "chosen" is not so pleasant:

Amos 3:1-2 tells us:

Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up out of the land of Egypt, saying: You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will visit upon you all your iniquities.

Howzat?

Be well!

ssv

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Shalom stillsmallvoice, imnotyou and onlookers.

"Still",

that quote you attribute to Eleanor of Aquitaine -- is it from an historical document (not ala Galaxy Quest), or from some sort of historical fiction? I have some interest in that time period, because at one time I thought I even might be descended from the lady. The line proved to be bogus: Genealogists are quick to dig up "noble" ancestry, because once you get back beyond about 1600, virtually no "non-nobles" were considered worthy of being recorded. By contrast, I found my Jewish ancestors only by some divine coincidences.

So much for genealogy. It's still Shabbat here in Oregon, so I'm typing on Shabbat. I don't know how you stand with this: I have a Jewish cousin who might be cooking blood sausage today, for all I know, but he still feels free to preach to me about what constitues true "Jewishness" (namely "Social Responsibility", etc.). I have other cousins, of course, who are probably having havdillah in Israel with funny winter hats on. The fact that you're even posting here, makes me think you're not one of those. I forgot to look up your bio, so I don't know.

As for my religion, I am on a spiritual journey. I was raised Roman Catholic, though my father was an Agnostic. I grew up in a Polish/German neighborhood, though I was neither; and the fact that my parents were divorced made me something of a shunned outcaste among classmates. I was into Evangelical Christianity for many years, though I never accepted the Trinity. Finally, after several Inquisition-like arguments with presumed friends, I gave up even trying to get along with them. I believe what Jesus said, namely, that the Jews know Whom they worship, and that salvation is of the Jews.

I wouldn't be considered Jewish by any Orthodox, seeing that I have not converted and my lineage is on my mother's mother's FATHER's side. But I am thankful to be a son of Ya'aqov, and my heart is Israel. I keep "kosher" to the satisfaction of my own conscience, though I'm by no means halachic.

Do you have any opinions concerning the upcoming elections? Israeli politics fascinates me, but this past year seems to be exceptional even by Israeli standards: ALL the major parties have kicked out their leaders, who have mostly gravitated towards one big, corruption-filled "Loser" party led by a man in a coma! What's more, the average Israeli seems to think the Loser Party is the neatest thing since twisted challah! Tell me if this isn't unusual.

"imnotyou",

Congratulations on your first birthday! If that's a true likeness of you (the four-eyed one), you look very mature for your age. My avatar looks amazingly like me, though I cut my hair shorter since the picture was taken.

As for all you Moslems here,

Yes, we're God's Chosen people, so eat your hearts out I wasn't raised Jewish like stillsmallvoice apparently was, so I think you'll find me less self-effacing and apologetic. If that makes you want to run for a Reuters repoter and cry on camera, then tough luck. I've read Qur'an twice, by the way, so feel free to ask/tell me anything.

Saida v'Shalom

Aww, let's just have one big group hug!

 

[BlandOatmeal]

allerj123,

Sorry I missed you as a Jew, and included imnotyou who apparently isn't Jewish :o. I would have called you a "fellow" Jew, but you know how it is -- I might think you're a Jew (which I do , but you might not think I'm one
. I'm certainly not a "cultural" Jew, since my last Jewish ancestor left Galicia in the early 1800s and married a Christian woman.

Concerning my own claim, I look at it this way: the American Indians are opening up tribal membership to people who are 1/8 or even 1/16 Indian (like me), so why should't the Jews? the Indians are doing it as a matter of sheer survival, because of their incredible marriage and assimilation rate. The Jews have the same problem in this regard as the Indians, and I think the Orthodox are foolish: They bend over backwards to get Jews to believe they're not "Jewish"; they offer little to attract proselytes, with their micromanaging halacha; then they wring their hands and lament at the high "assimilation" rate. This is great, if you're trying to produce a super-holy "remnant", which they apparently are doing. Some Christians do this too: There's a joke about becoming the church of "We Four and No More". There's another joke about the John Birch Society which goes,

"Now all that's left is me and thee, and I'm not sure of thee!"

But this isn't my vision for Am Israel; so whatever you think or don't think of me, I'm glad to make your acquaintance, (brother? sister? -- I can't see any of your icons in this mode). Am Yisrael chai, wherever you are!

Shalom shalom

 

[Talmidah]

Hi there, are there any Jews on this forum. So far I am coming across a lot of Hindus, Muslims, pagans, atheists, etc but no Jews. Does anyone know of them?

Hi AlHannah ,

Welcome to CF!! There are a few here. But you won't usually see posts from us on Saturdays (except for those posting from Israel after Shabat ends there). If you're interested, you can learn a lot from ssv (stillsmallvoice) who is very good at explaining the hows, whys, and therefores of Judaism

Take care!

 

[Exegete12]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

 

[NOSELF]

"However," he added, "I realise this is a deeply offensive and sweeping statement, and extemely generalised, because all religions have extemists, egoists, fanatics and those, who like me, tend to put things out of context and exaggerate. Moslems have this idea too, so I can't really criticise, can I...?"

Wow, male, you are so warm-hearted and self-deprecating! What a credit you are to this forum!

I think you have proven that right speech and right thought are paramount. Thankyou, you made me laugh today.

 

[alerj123]

allerj123,

Sorry I missed you as a Jew, and included imnotyou who apparently isn't Jewish :o. I would have called you a "fellow" Jew, but you know how it is -- I might think you're a Jew (which I do , but you might not think I'm one
. I'm certainly not a "cultural" Jew, since my last Jewish ancestor left Galicia in the early 1800s and married a Christian woman.

Concerning my own claim, I look at it this way: the American Indians are opening up tribal membership to people who are 1/8 or even 1/16 Indian (like me), so why should't the Jews? the Indians are doing it as a matter of sheer survival, because of their incredible marriage and assimilation rate. The Jews have the same problem in this regard as the Indians, and I think the Orthodox are foolish: They bend over backwards to get Jews to believe they're not "Jewish"; they offer little to attract proselytes, with their micromanaging halacha; then they wring their hands and lament at the high "assimilation" rate. This is great, if you're trying to produce a super-holy "remnant", which they apparently are doing. Some Christians do this too: There's a joke about becoming the church of "We Four and No More". There's another joke about the John Birch Society which goes,

"Now all that's left is me and thee, and I'm not sure of thee!"

But this isn't my vision for Am Israel; so whatever you think or don't think of me, I'm glad to make your acquaintance, (brother? sister? -- I can't see any of your icons in this mode). Am Yisrael chai, wherever you are!

Shalom shalom

hey, hows it goin.

I agree that you do'nt need to be a cultural jew to be a jew. There are two ways to become or to be jewish. The first would be to be born that way. In that way, its like being born into any other ethnic group. Like being indian for example. In that way, its a culture. However, there is also the religious aspect so if you convert to become a jew, then you are jewish as well. I found a good explanation on a site which defined Judaism as either a decendent of the Hebrew people, or based on your religious beliefs. So you should definetly be considered jewish by any jewish person. I don't know why people wouldn't....we're definetly not thriving in terms of population.

 

[urnotme]

Jews think all others inferior to them. They have belief that other persons have been created to serve them only.

Actually the oposite is true imo. The jews on this forum have been polite and non critical of other religions. They have defended islam more than once.

 

[AlexandraB]

I think you have proven that right speech and right thought are paramount. Thankyou, you made me laugh today.

It is written:
"Every situation can be improved a hundredfold if you can find a little humour in it".

(From the Alexasuttra: chapter one, verse one, for every one! )

 

[arunma]

Jews think all others inferior to them. They have belief that other persons have been created to serve them only.

I've never met a Jew who believed that he was superior to me. If Jews believe that others are created to serve them, then I wonder why it is that so many of the white people who marched alongside Martin Luther King were Jews.

Please allow me to remind you that Jews were essential to the African civil rights movement of the 60s. And to this day, they remain active in the field of civil rights. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that Jews believe in their own superiority.

 

[Ivy]

"However," he added, "I realise this is a deeply offensive and sweeping statement, and extemely generalised, because all religions have extemists, egoists, fanatics and those, who like me, tend to put things out of context and exaggerate. Moslems have this idea too, so I can't really criticise, can I...?"

Wow, male, you are so warm-hearted and self-deprecating! What a credit you are to this forum!

You rock, AlexandraB.

 

[Ivy]

By the way, Happy Martin Luther King Day, everybody!

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Thanks, allerj.

I wrote a whole message to you, but it was deleted because it had too many icons in it. No more time to re-write it.

Shalom shalom


PS. It's been hours since I posted, and yet I get to edit? Oh well. Here we go, allerj. What do you (or others here) think of the following?

Today most Israelis, between 40 and 50 percent, define themselves as masortiim, which covers such a wide range of beliefs and practices that it is almost impossible of definition. Some masortiim observe ritual mitzvot which we associate with Orthodoxy except that they may use their automobiles on Shabbat. Others maintain relatively little in the way of ritual observance but see themselves as believers. Indeed, what is common to virtually all masortiim is a strong commitment to belief in God, whether in a rational or superstitious way, or some combination of both, along with a concern for accepted traditional practices of the seasonal Jewish calendar (especially Sabbath, holy days, and festivals) and the customs (rites of passage) of the Jewish life cycle.

Many of these masortiim are second generation Israelis in transition from dati backgrounds to hiloni practices, if not beliefs. Unless something is done to give them a firm grounding for a proper religious expression of their Jewishness, in another generation or two most of them will be, for all intents and purposes, in the hiloni camp. In this respect, they are like the second generation American Jews of a generation or two ago who formed the backbone of the Conservative movement, many of whose grandchildren today are either joining Reform temples or not affiliating at all.

Whether or not this happens depends upon who will enunciate the values of Judaism in Israel and who will embody the authority of the Torah. It seems that the overwhelming majority of the masortiim are Sephardic Jews, while religious values and authority in Israel are heavily in the hands of one segment of Ashkenazic Jewry, a segment which is poles apart from the Sephardim and the Sephardic attitude toward religious matters. Moreover, the strength of the Ashkenazic religious establishment is such that those Sephardim who become dati are more likely to become Ashkenazified in their religious expression (because they are forced to do so) than to introduce the reasonableness and the openness of the Sephardic approach. This is not the place to discuss why this is so. In this writer's opinion, it is a tragedy of major proportions for the Jewish people and Judaism.

Put simply, to the extent that Jewish religious values and authority are considered to be the province of the Ashkenazi religious leadership, they are perceived to be closed, unbending, and looking for ways to make Judaism a matter of following ritual humrot (more serious restrictions), rather than addressing the larger questions of life in a Jewish state from the perspective of all three ketarim. While this is not necessarily an altogether true picture, it is the prevailing one and true enough. As such, it is alienating except for those relatively few who are attracted by the kind of Orthodox fundamentalism implied in such an approach.

As a result, the average Jew in Israel is quite ambivalent toward the religious dimensions of his tradition. On one hand, he respects those dimensions, sees them as reflecting his basic beliefs, and wishes to identify with them through some measure of practice. On the other hand, he finds so many of those who give them expression as being the people furthest removed from his values in almost every other sphere, whether in terms of the responsibilities of citizens within a democratic state, in respect for the political institutions of that state, or in their ability to address the serious problems of a contemporary Jewish society. The exceptions to this are to be found among the national religious youth who are indeed highly respected in Israel. But at this particular moment in any case, they do not represent the cutting edge of those who seem to dominate the expression of Torah values and authority.

-- Daniel J. Elazar, "The Future Role of Religion in Israel"