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Any bodybuilders here?

Bobby&Val

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Hi, This is Val responding and this subject has become a little bit of a pet project for me so here we go. You are correct, speaking with the normal populous is different than speaking with the bodybuilding subculture. In this subculture they know the side-affects of AAS and accept them. Roid gut, enlarged breasts and jaundice all being very common. Below are some case studies, doctors and medical centers names included so that you can read the entire studies yourself if you wish. We do not wish to provoke you to anger. We would instead wish to as God states in the Psalm of the righteous man, ask you to guide your affairs with descretion and caution. The use of AAS for medical conditions is much different than the use of the drugs to promote a response in an otherwise healthy body. Drug abusive is after all drug abuse and there must be a mental void that is being filled by it's use. Here are those promised case studies. These include instances of heart fribulation, enlarging of the heart, abnormal growth of the jawline, jaundice, liver lesions, brain lesions, kidney failure and disease, emotional problems brought on by chemical imbalances and enlargement of the pituitary gland and stroke. I can provide 522 other cases (and counting). These are only a few. I pray that God speaks to you and guides you to the answer.

2000 article in Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics Clinical study of 75 female bodybuilders one third (25) who used anabolic steroids on a regular basis. Of the 25, nineteen were reported to have had kidney related illnesses, the most serious being kidney failure

Androgenic/Anabolic steroid-induced toxic hepatitis.
Stimac D, Milic S, Dintinjana RD, Kovac D, Ristic S.
Division of Gastroenterology, Department of Internal Medicine, Clinical Hospital Center Rijeka, Rijeka, Croatia. davor.stimac@ri.hinet.hr
Athletes and bodybuilders often misuse androgenic/anabolic steroids. When used in therapeutic doses, these drugs produce clinical jaundice in just a small number of recipients. We present a 26-year-old male bodybuilder who self-administered high doses of androgenic/anabolic steroids that induced liver damage. One month before admission to the hospital, he used testosterone enanthate (500 mg intramuscularly, twice weekly), stanozolol (40 mg/d), and methylandrostenediol (30 mg/d by mouth, for 5 weeks). On admission, his bilirubin level was 470 micromol/L (direct, 360 micromol/L), his aspartate aminotransferase (AST) level was 5,870 IU/L, his alanine aminotransferase (ALT) level was 10,580 IU/L, his alkaline phosphatase (ALP) level was 152 IU/L, his gamma-glutamyl-transpeptidase level was 140 IU/L, his albumin level was 27.6 g/L, and his prothrombin time was 29%. During the patient's prolonged hospitalization, multiple tests and liver biopsy were performed, showing only toxic hepatic lesions. The patient was provided with supportive medical treatment. Clinical signs and laboratory findings improved substantially 12 weeks after the patient discontinued androgenic/anabolic steroids. The reasons for presenting this case were the much higher values of AST and ALT levels than reported in other studies, although the values of bilirubin and ALP were similar to those found in the literature. To our knowledge, it is the first case of toxic hepatitis induced by androgenic/anabolic steroids with predominantly hepatocellular necrosis instead of intrahepatic cholestasis.

Habscheid W, Abele U, Dahm HH.
Medizinische Klinik, Paracelsus-Krankenhaus Ruit, Esslingen.
HISTORY AND ADMISSION FINDINGS: A 28-year-old body builder was admitted because of jaundice. For 80 days, until 3 weeks before hospitalization, he had been taking moderately high doses of anabolic steroids: metandienone (methandienone), 10-50 mg daily by mouth, and stanozolol, 50 mg intramuscularly every other day. Physical examination was unremarkable except for yellow discoloration of the skin and sclerae. INVESTIGATIONS: Bilirubin concentration was raised to 4.5 mg/dl, cholestasis enzymes were normal, while transaminase activities were raised. Liver biopsy was compatible with cholestasis induced by anabolic steroids. TREATMENT AND COURSE: Although the steroids had been discontinued, the patient's general condition deteriorated over 7 weeks. Serum bilirubin rose up to a maximum of 77.9 mg/dl. In addition renal failure developed with a creatinine concentration of 4.2 mg/dl. The patient's state improved simultaneously with the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the biochemical values gradually reached normal levels after several weeks. CONCLUSION: Anabolic steroids can cause severe cholestasis and acute renal failure. In this case there was a notable temporal coincidence between the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the marked clinical improvement.

Atrial fibrillation and anabolic steroids.
Sullivan ML, Martinez CM, Gallagher EJ.
Department of Emergency Medicine, Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
A young male bodybuilder, consuming large doses of anabolic steroids (AS), presented to the Emergency Department (ED) with symptomatic rapid atrial fibrillation (AF). Echocardiogram revealed significant septal hypokinesis, and posterior and septal wall thickness at the upper limit of normal for highly trained athletes. The atrial fibrillation had not recurred at 10 weeks after discontinuation of AS use. Consumption of these agents in athletes has been associated with hypertension, ischemic heart disease, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and sudden death.

Androgenic/anabolic steroid-induced intrahepatic cholestasis: a review with four additional case reports.
Gurakar A, Caraceni P, Fagiuoli S, Van Thiel DH.
Oklahoma Transplantation Institute, Baptist Medical Center of Oklahoma, Oklahoma City 73112.
Four cases of severe cholestasis attributed to anabolic/androgenic steroid usage are reported. These cases are reported because each was severely jaundiced (peak bilirubin level 62 mg/dl), developed advanced hepatic failure and was referred to a liver transplant center for consideration for liver transplantation. The hepatic dysfunction and cholestasis in each persisted for 3 months or more. Moreover, in two the hepatic dysfunction was complicated by the development of renal dysfunction and anemia requiring additional medical interventions. With prolonged medical therapy, each case recovered fully without transplantation. These cases are important because they demonstrate that drug-induced cholestasis can be prolonged, can mimic advanced liver disease, and can be associated with co-existent renal dysfunction.

Anabolic steroid use as the possible precipitant of dilated cardiomyopathy.
Ferrera PC, Putnam DL, Verdile VP.
Department of Emergency Medicine, Albany Medical Center, NY 12208, USA.
Anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) use is common among young males, including adolescents. There have been several anecdotal reports of severe cardiovascular events in self-reported young users of AAS, including acute myocardial infarction, sudden cardiac death, and cardiomyopathy. We present an additional case of a young male weight lifter who presented with dyspnea and chest pain attributable to dilated cardiomyopathy (DC), his only known risk factor being the recent use of AAS. The possible role of AAS in the development of DC is discussed.

Reversible hypogonadism and azoospermia as a result of anabolic-androgenic steroid use in a bodybuilder with personality disorder. A case report.
Boyadjiev NP, Georgieva KN, Massaldjieva RI, Gueorguiev SI.
Faculty of Medicine, Department of Physiology, Plovdiv, Bulgaria. nutrim@plovdiv.techno-link.com
We report a case of reversible hypogonadism and azoospermia resulting from anabolic-androgenic steroid abuse in a body-builder with primary personality disorder. A keen body builder, a 20-year-old man, developed acute aggressive and destructive behavior after 10-month use of Bionabol (mean total dose of 1,120 mg per month), and Retabolil (mean total dose of 150 mg per month). He was found to meet the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV ed. (DSM-IV) criteria for Borderline personality disorder. On admission to the hospital the clinical profile of the patient showed extremely low levels of serum testosterone. Values increased to normal levels 10 months after withdrawal of steroids. The sperm was azoospermic at the beginning of the study period, oligospermic five months later, and reached 20 x 10(6) sperm per mL ten months after the steroid discontinuation. Anabolic steroids can greatly affect the male pituitary-gonadal axis. A hypogonadal state, characterized by decreased serum testosterone and impaired spermatogenesis, was induced in the patient. This condition was reversible after the steroid withdrawal, but the process took more than ten months. His personal imbalance could be considered a personality trait rather than a result of the anabolic-androgenic steroid use. There were probably dispositional personality characteristics that contributed to anabolic steroid abuse in our patient. The hypogonadal changes which occurred after his long-term steroid abuse were for the most part reversible.

Exposure to anabolic-androgenic steroids shortens life span of male mice.
Bronson FH, Matherne CM.
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712, USA. bronson@mail.utex.edu
Adult male laboratory mice were exposed for 6 months to a combination of four anabolic-androgenic steroids of the kinds and at the relative levels to which human athletes and body builders expose themselves. The four steroids included testosterone, two 17-alkylated steroids, and an ester, and they were given at doses that totaled either 5 or 20 times normal androgenic maintenance levels for mice. By the time the survivors were 20 months old (1 yr after the termination of steroid exposure), 52% of the mice given the high dose of steroids had died compared with 35% of the mice given the low dose and only 12% of the control mice given no exogenous hormones (P <0.001). Autopsy of the steroid-treated mice typically revealed tumors in the liver or kidney, other kinds of damage to these two organs, broadly invase lymphosarcomas, or heart damage, and usually more than one of these conditions. It can be concluded that the life span of male mice is decreased dramatically by exposing them for 6 months to the kinds and relative levels of anabolic steroids used by many athletes and body builders.

Physical health and fitness of an elite bodybuilder during 1 year of self-administration of testosterone and anabolic steroids: a case study.
Alen M, Hakkinen K.
An adult male bodybuilder of international level, who had decided to complement his training by self-administering the androgenic hormones (actually 53 mg/day), volunteered as a subject for investigation of his physical health and fitness over a training period of 1 year including only a 4-week abstinence from drugs in the middle of the year. The subject was able to gain greatly in fat-free weight (from 83 to 90 kg), in mean fiber area of the VL muscle (enlargement of 11.4% after a half year's training), and in maximal strength (from 5145 to 5948 N). The high level of serum testosterone and low level of serum SHBG observed tend to strengthen suggestions of the anabolic effects of androgenic steroids during training. The subject's health status was affected. A high serum E2 level during the use of androgens, atrophic testicles, and low LH, FSH, and T levels after drug withdrawal indicate that sustained testosterone/anabolic steroid administration affects the function of the pituitary and leads to long-lasting impairment of testicular endocrine function, and consequently to azoospermia and cynegomastia. The observed decrease in serum HDL-cholesterol (from 1.59 to 0.44 mmol/l) and in HDL2-cholesterol (from 0.42 to 0.01 mmol/l) may indicate a higher risk for atherogenesis.


(CONTINUED)
 
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Bobby&Val

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(continuation of original reply)

Psychiatric and medical effects of anabolic-androgenic steroid use. A controlled study of 160 athletes.
Pope HG Jr, Katz DL.
Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean Hospital, Belmont, Mass.
BACKGROUND: We sought to expand on preliminary findings suggesting that anabolic-androgenic steroids produce psychiatric effects in some athletes who use them. METHODS: We compared 88 athletes who were using steroids with 68 nonusers, using the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-III-R to diagnose psychiatric syndromes occurring in association with steroid use (if applicable) and in the absence of steroid use. Demographic, medical, and laboratory measures were also performed. RESULTS: Steroid users displayed more frequent gynecomastia, decreased mean testicular length, and higher cholesterol-high-density lipoprotein ratios than nonusers. Most strikingly, 23% of steroid users reported major mood syndromes--mania, hypomania, or major depression--in association with steroid use. Steroid users displayed mood disorders during steroid exposure significantly more frequently than in the absence of steroid exposure (P <.001) and significantly more frequently than nonusers (P <.01). Users rarely abused other drugs simultaneously with steroids. CONCLUSION: Major mood disturbances associated with anabolic-androgenic steroids may represent an important public health problem for athletes using steroids and sometimes for the victims of their irritability and aggression.

nabolic androgenic steroids and a stroke in an athlete: case report.
Frankle MA, Eichberg R, Zachariah SB.
University of South Florida College of Medicine, Tampa 33622.
Use of anabolic androgenic steroids among athletes has grown at an alarming rate in recent years, despite the knowledge that their use has resulted in such side effects as severe depression of high-density lipoprotein levels, increased low-density lipoprotein/cholesterol levels, and hepatocellular carcinoma. We report here the case of a 34-year-old man whose hobby was body building, in the course of which he had been taking various anabolic androgenic agents for four years. Seventeen days before a scheduled body physique contest, he developed an acute right hemiparesis and experienced difficulty in speaking. In the emergency room he developed a simple partial seizure activity; an electroencephalogram showed abnormal slowing suggestive of left hemispheric structural lesion. After rehabilitation, he was able to ambulate independently; he had mild motor weakness in the right upper extremity with no sensory changes at discharge. Physicians working with athletes who use anabolic androgenic steroids should warn them of the risk of stroke.

Masseteric hypertrophy associated with administration of anabolic steroids and unilateral mastication: a case report.
Skoura C, Mourouzis C, Saranteas T, Chatzigianni E, Tesseromatis C.
Department of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, General District Hospital of Athens KAT, Greece.
In this report we present a patient with unilateral masseteric hypertrophy who used anabolic steroids and was chewing entirely unilaterally for 1 month. Computed tomography and histologic examination were used to confirm the diagnosis. The combined action of unilateral mastication and anabolic steroid use is probably responsible for the rapid development of unilateral masseteric hypertrophy.

Here is a fav quote of mine from Dave Draper, Mr. America, Mr. World and Mr. Universe and most of all a good christian man.

"I dare say there are one or two giant muscle guys walking across the stage
who don?t have the HEART, but they do have a dandy pharmacist."
 
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catalyst

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Bobby&Val said:
Hi, In this subculture they know the side-affects of AAS and accept them. Roid gut,

*Guess what, visceral tissue growth comes from where?

enlarged breasts and jaundice all being very common.
*Never said there were no side effects. Estrogenic effects are fairly common, and relatively easy to deal with.


The use of AAS for medical conditions is much different than the use of the drugs to promote a response in an otherwise healthy body.
*Of course, and I have never said otherwise.


Drug abusive is after all drug abuse and there must be a mental void that is being filled by it's use. Here are those promised case studies. These include instances of heart fribulation, enlarging of the heart, abnormal growth of the jawline, jaundice, liver lesions, brain lesions, kidney failure and disease, emotional problems brought on by chemical imbalances and enlargement of the pituitary gland and stroke. I can provide 522 other cases (and counting). These are only a few. I pray that God speaks to you and guides you to the answer.

2000 article in Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics Clinical study of 75 female bodybuilders one third (25) who used anabolic steroids on a regular basis. Of the 25, nineteen were reported to have had kidney related illnesses, the most serious being kidney failure
*Could you produce this article in its full length. I think you might find it interesting.


Androgenic/Anabolic steroid-induced toxic hepatitis.
*Jaundice is a common side, yes, of orals. No real problem with discontinuation. To give an example, please compare the effects of jaundice secondary to AAS use in comparison to Retinol use. This will give us an objective comparison.


Habscheid W, Abele U, Dahm HH.
Medizinische Klinik, Paracelsus-Krankenhaus Ruit, Esslingen.
HISTORY AND ADMISSION FINDINGS: A 28-year-old body builder was admitted because of jaundice. For 80 days, until 3 weeks before hospitalization, he had been taking moderately high doses of anabolic steroids: metandienone (methandienone), 10-50 mg daily by mouth, and stanozolol, 50 mg intramuscularly every other day. Physical examination was unremarkable except for yellow discoloration of the skin and sclerae. INVESTIGATIONS: Bilirubin concentration was raised to 4.5 mg/dl, cholestasis enzymes were normal, while transaminase activities were raised. Liver biopsy was compatible with cholestasis induced by anabolic steroids. TREATMENT AND COURSE: Although the steroids had been discontinued, the patient's general condition deteriorated over 7 weeks. Serum bilirubin rose up to a maximum of 77.9 mg/dl. In addition renal failure developed with a creatinine concentration of 4.2 mg/dl. The patient's state improved simultaneously with the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the biochemical values gradually reached normal levels after several weeks. CONCLUSION: Anabolic steroids can cause severe cholestasis and acute renal failure. In this case there was a notable temporal coincidence between the administration of ursodeoxycholic acid and the marked clinical improvement.
*See the words temporal coincidence.


Atrial fibrillation and anabolic steroids.
Sullivan ML, Martinez CM, Gallagher EJ.
Department of Emergency Medicine, Jacobi Medical Center, Bronx, New York
A young male bodybuilder, consuming large doses of anabolic steroids (AS), presented to the Emergency Department (ED) with symptomatic rapid atrial fibrillation (AF). Echocardiogram revealed significant septal hypokinesis, and posterior and septal wall thickness at the upper limit of normal for highly trained athletes. The atrial fibrillation had not recurred at 10 weeks after discontinuation of AS use. Consumption of these agents in athletes has been associated with hypertension, ischemic heart disease, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and sudden death.
*Present the full length article. The disccusion shows something slightly different than the conclusion.

Androgenic/anabolic steroid-induced intrahepatic cholestasis: a review with four additional case reports.
Gurakar A, Caraceni P, Fagiuoli S, Van Thiel DH.
Oklahoma Transplantation Institute, Baptist Medical Center of Oklahoma, Oklahoma City 73112.
*Again, orals are toxic to the liver. I have already acknowledged this. There are also ways to deal with that.


Anabolic steroid use as the possible precipitant of dilated cardiomyopathy.
Ferrera PC, Putnam DL, Verdile VP.
Department of Emergency Medicine, Albany Medical Center, NY 12208, USA.
Anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) use is common among young males, including adolescents. There have been several anecdotal reports of severe cardiovascular events in self-reported young users of AAS, including acute myocardial infarction, sudden cardiac death, and cardiomyopathy. We present an additional case of a young male weight lifter who presented with dyspnea and chest pain attributable to dilated cardiomyopathy (DC), his only known risk factor being the recent use of AAS. The possible role of AAS in the development of DC is discussed.
*anecdotal reports, this is why it is an article, and not peer reviewed.



Reversible hypogonadism and azoospermia as a result of anabolic-androgenic steroid use in a bodybuilder with personality disorder. A case report.
Boyadjiev NP, Georgieva KN, Massaldjieva RI, Gueorguiev SI.
Faculty of Medicine, Department of Physiology, Plovdiv, Bulgaria.
*Never have I denied testicular atrophy. flucuating test and estorgen levels can cause mood swings in people who do not use AAS, but yes, this is a side effect. Compare the side effects of this sort to other medication which affects brain chemistry, such as zoloft, prozac, etc, which are given out like candy.

Exposure to anabolic-androgenic steroids shortens life span of male mice.
Bronson FH, Matherne CM.
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712, USA. bronson@mail.utex.edu
*Mice, thanks.

Physical health and fitness of an elite bodybuilder during 1 year of self-administration of testosterone and anabolic steroids: a case study.
Alen M, Hakkinen K.
An adult male bodybuilder of international level, who had decided to complement his training by self-administering the androgenic hormones (actually 53 mg/day), volunteered as a subject for investigation of his physical health and fitness over a training period of 1 year including only a 4-week abstinence from drugs in the middle of the year. The subject was able to gain greatly in fat-free weight (from 83 to 90 kg), in mean fiber area of the VL muscle (enlargement of 11.4% after a half year's training), and in maximal strength (from 5145 to 5948 N). The high level of serum testosterone and low level of serum SHBG observed tend to strengthen suggestions of the anabolic effects of androgenic steroids during training. The subject's health status was affected. A high serum E2 level during the use of androgens, atrophic testicles, and low LH, FSH, and T levels after drug withdrawal indicate that sustained testosterone/anabolic steroid administration affects the function of the pituitary and leads to long-lasting impairment of testicular endocrine function, and consequently to azoospermia and cynegomastia. The observed decrease in serum HDL-cholesterol (from 1.59 to 0.44 mmol/l) and in HDL2-cholesterol (from 0.42 to 0.01 mmol/l) may indicate a higher risk for atherogenesis.
*Estrogen related sides again. And controllable. And not lethal.

(CONTINUED)
 
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catalyst

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Bobby&Val said:
(continuation of original reply)

Psychiatric and medical effects of anabolic-androgenic steroid use. A controlled study of 160 athletes.
Pope HG Jr, Katz DL.
Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean Hospital, Belmont, Mass.
BACKGROUND: We sought to expand on preliminary findings suggesting that anabolic-androgenic steroids produce psychiatric effects in some athletes who use them. METHODS: We compared 88 athletes who were using steroids with 68 nonusers, using the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-III-R to diagnose psychiatric syndromes occurring in association with steroid use (if applicable) and in the absence of steroid use. Demographic, medical, and laboratory measures were also performed. RESULTS: Steroid users displayed more frequent gynecomastia, decreased mean testicular length, and higher cholesterol-high-density lipoprotein ratios than nonusers. Most strikingly, 23% of steroid users reported major mood syndromes--mania, hypomania, or major depression--in association with steroid use. Steroid users displayed mood disorders during steroid exposure significantly more frequently than in the absence of steroid exposure (P <.001) and significantly more frequently than nonusers (P <.01). Users rarely abused other drugs simultaneously with steroids. CONCLUSION: Major mood disturbances associated with anabolic-androgenic steroids may represent an important public health problem for athletes using steroids and sometimes for the victims of their irritability and aggression.
*Again, never denied the effects on psycho chemistry. Estrogen related sides are controllable.



nabolic androgenic steroids and a stroke in an athlete: case report.
Frankle MA, Eichberg R, Zachariah SB.
University of South Florida College of Medicine, Tampa 33622.
Use of anabolic androgenic steroids among athletes has grown at an alarming rate in recent years, despite the knowledge that their use has resulted in such side effects as severe depression of high-density lipoprotein levels, increased low-density lipoprotein/cholesterol levels, and hepatocellular carcinoma. We report here the case of a 34-year-old man whose hobby was body building, in the course of which he had been taking various anabolic androgenic agents for four years. Seventeen days before a scheduled body physique contest, he developed an acute right hemiparesis and experienced difficulty in speaking. In the emergency room he developed a simple partial seizure activity; an electroencephalogram showed abnormal slowing suggestive of left hemispheric structural lesion. After rehabilitation, he was able to ambulate independently; he had mild motor weakness in the right upper extremity with no sensory changes at discharge. Physicians working with athletes who use anabolic androgenic steroids should warn them of the risk of stroke.
*No where does it state that AAS use was the cause of his CVA.


Masseteric hypertrophy associated with administration of anabolic steroids and unilateral mastication: a case report.
Skoura C, Mourouzis C, Saranteas T, Chatzigianni E, Tesseromatis C.
Department of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, General District Hospital of Athens KAT, Greece.
In this report we present a patient with unilateral masseteric hypertrophy who used anabolic steroids and was chewing entirely unilaterally for 1 month. Computed tomography and histologic examination were used to confirm the diagnosis. The combined action of unilateral mastication and anabolic steroid use is probably responsible for the rapid development of unilateral masseteric hypertrophy.
*A case study of a guy who chewed unevenly and developed the muscularture of his jaw unevernly.

Here is a fav quote of mine from Dave Draper, Mr. America, Mr. World and Mr. Universe and most of all a good christian man.

"I dare say there are one or two giant muscle guys walking across the stage
who don?t have the HEART, but they do have a dandy pharmacist."
You last quote is nothing more than an assertion.

I am still waiting on the lethal effects.

I have never said there were not side effects. I am not avocating their use. What I do object to is the hype that surrounds them.

I can post a great many studies showing their beneficial effects, in peer reveiwed journals, if you are interested.

The fact remains, that they are drugs, yes. They are not as deadly as they are commonly made out. Should most people use them, of course not. We (the US) are probably the most over-medicated country in the world. However, this does not justify the amount of misinformation that is presented every time the subject comes up.

Side effects like jaundice and hepatoxicity are controllable, and neither the studies nor the articles you posted showed any attempt to do so. I will not go into the methods, as I do not wish to be percieved as giving advice of this sort. Like all other drugs, they have pharmokinetic interactions with an individuals biochemisty, which is why case studies are essentially worthless in providing empirical data. By way of example, I do not secrete the proper enzymes to break down soy, I will spare you the details (it is fairly disgusting). If I were to post a case study showing the inability of a 38 year old man to break down raffinose, it would be useless as far as you were concerned.

Please post long-term data that has passed peer review, that supports your position of the fatality of these drugs. This is the number one thing I was questioning, and I still am.
 
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Gunny

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Bobby&Val said:
Here is a fav quote of mine from Dave Draper, Mr. America, Mr. World and Mr. Universe and most of all a good christian man.

"I dare say there are one or two giant muscle guys walking across the stage
who don?t have the HEART, but they do have a dandy pharmacist."
Amen, Brother In Christ!
 
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SiteCR2

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What started as a good question has turned to what most people "think" of body building. drugs to make you huge.
like everything else, the wrong are in the minority. Drugs for bodybuilding are like any other drugs. you're doing it for self pleasure not increased fitness and well being.

body building as "normal" natural sport is pretty good.
I personally just like a mix of aerobic and lifting to make my body to what it needs (peace and combat). Stay healthy, do the job required and move on to enjoy what God has provided all around us.
cheers
 
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