Any Advice From A Pagan Heading This Direction?

[mannysee]

Hi Alicia,

Over a few years before turning to Christ, I dabbled in occultic practices and various things by myself. While I never saw things at that time, I know that I became severly depressed and was drawn to dark thoughts including shooting my parents at one stage (I couldn't believe I was thinking this!). Anyway, I too was hindered while I began to be drawn to Christ. I heard about God's holiness and my sin, about his justice and his judgement against me. Then I heard about how Christ carried my sins and my punishment on the cross and how he rose from the dead to justify me or declare me as righteous in God's sight by believing in Christ and turning to God. Anyway, very soon after turning to Christ and being 'born again' (what a wonderful day that was!!), i had a couple of times of seeing black mist shapes and having them try to 'suck the life out of me'. This was terrifying, but somehow i felt compelled to cry out to Jesus to help me, and it was gone.

 

[heron]

On New Creation's "huge battle for your soul"...

I recently ran across a diary of the year I became a Christian. The same week that I began thinking about God as existing in reality, I rushed to the library to look for occult books.

 

[ACougar]

Dabling in occult practices for the sake of curiousity isn't really a good idea. Messing with an Ouigi board is like picking up a phone and dialing any number at random, you might get nothing, you might get something nice and you might get something nasty.

 

[heron]

Acougar, did you know that "reap what you sow" comes from the Bible? (Here I go, "we said it first.")

Job 4:8, Proverbs 11:18, [url="http://biblegateway.org/passage/?book_id=24&chapter=22&verse=8&version=31&context=verse"]Proverbs 22:8, [url="http://biblegateway.org/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=37&verse=30&version=31&context=verse"]Isaiah 37, [url="http://biblegateway.org/passage/?search=Matthew%2013:1-23;%20Mark%204:1-25;%20Luke%208:4-18"]Matthew 13, Mark 4:1-25, Luke 8:4-18,
and references to time where it reap/sow wasn't balancing as it should
[/url][/url][/url]Psalm 126:5, Hosea 8:7, Luke 19:21, Jeremiah 12:13

Many Christians treat their faith as black and white, but the Words of God are certainly not black and white. Go to the apologetics section, and you will find debates over the meanings of words, sublteties of verses, weights of importance, balance of precepts.

Salvation is not our end! Life is so much more when you're connected with God.

I'm not trying to make this a competition, but wanted to make sure people didn't get the wrong impression.

 

[ACougar]

The whole concept of reaping what you sow is pretty universal. It's not really important who said it first, what's important is that it's true.

Christianity accepts the idea of absolutes, absolute evil and absolute good. These are concepts that do not exist in Neo-Paganism as well as many other religions. It's a fundamental differance between our cosmologies. I was only trying to point out differances also, not imply that one understanding was superior to the other.

Acougar, did you know that "reap what you sow" comes from the Bible? (Here I go, "we said it first.")

Job 4:8, Proverbs 11:18, [url="http://biblegateway.org/passage/?book_id=24&chapter=22&verse=8&version=31&context=verse"]Proverbs 22:8, [url="http://biblegateway.org/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=37&verse=30&version=31&context=verse"]Isaiah 37, [url="http://biblegateway.org/passage/?search=Matthew%2013:1-23;%20Mark%204:1-25;%20Luke%208:4-18"]Matthew 13, Mark 4:1-25, Luke 8:4-18,
and references to time where it reap/sow wasn't balancing as it should
[/url][/url][/url]Psalm 126:5, Hosea 8:7, Luke 19:21, Jeremiah 12:13

Many Christians treat their faith as black and white, but the Words of God are certainly not black and white. Go to the apologetics section, and you will find debates over the meanings of words, sublteties of verses, weights of importance, balance of precepts.

Salvation is not our end! Life is so much more when you're connected with God.

I'm not trying to make this a competition, but wanted to make sure people didn't get the wrong impression.

 

[heron]

Universal...probably since the first seed went in the ground. (Which came first, the seed or the....)

I see the stark contrasts of good and evil in supernatural beings, God as all-loving with a wisdom that considers the common good, Satan as a fallen angel who has chosen a path of destroying others...then angels and evil spirits who assist and harrass, respectively.

As for truths, you'll see more subtleties. Some of them are just common sense, or thoughtfulness to others. Laws were set in place to create a caring community, then people refined the laws to mean much more specific, legalistic things, then Jesus intervened and shook up the legalism to help us see through to the heart of the laws.

Yes, you are a part of everything, and you will always be loved.

 

[ACougar]

Universal...probably since the first seed went in the ground. (Which came first, the seed or the....)

We hold these truths to be self-evident...

I see the stark contrasts of good and evil in supernatural beings, God as all-loving with a wisdom that considers the common good, Satan as a fallen angel who has chosen a path of destroying others...then angels and evil spirits who assist and harrass, respectively.

I wouldn't deny that there is evil, nor would I deny that that evil dwells in each of us just as good dwells in each of us. We must be careful to feed and nurture that which is good and loving, while I disagree with much of Christianity it can serve a person well to do just that.

As for truths, you'll see more subtleties. Some of them are just common sense, or thoughtfulness to others. Laws were set in place to create a caring community, then people refined the laws to mean much more specific, legalistic things, then Jesus intervened and shook up the legalism to help us see through to the heart of the laws.

Yes, you are a part of everything, and you will always be loved.

If I am apart of all things, have love and am always loved how could I ever be completely seperate from God? God(s) are/is Love by any name.

 

[Jatopian]

The KJV is mistranslated in several places. Sorry.
As for reading, I would say read the Gospels and Acts first. Always read things in the proper context, too... Paul's letters, for example, contain some things that can easily be misunderstood and/or may not apply today.

 

[Nightfire]

If I am apart of all things, have love and am always loved how could I ever be completely seperate from God? God(s) are/is Love by any name.

That's the difference that absolutes make. The God of Israel would tolerate no other gods or spiritual distractions, not even the helpful or "benign" ones. The good/evil dichotomy within people can help us with certain decisions, but it isn't enough to save us. It too often depends on how strong you assume your "aura" is, how influencial you think the "evil" is. That's betting rather heavily on yourself, against forces that share none of our limitations and can even pose as angels of light?

Jesus used the Jewish example of yeast. While you may start out with a lot of good and "just enough but not too much" spice to make it tasty - it soon pervades like an undetectable virus through every healthy cell. This process - physically and spiritually - leads to certain death. God is pure good, and wants nothing less than to make us into a new batch of bread without any yeast to taint it: something that will endure like he meant it to. "Taste" is an extremely dangerous and subjective rule for faith.

Galatians 5:7-9 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."​

Our bodies have been created with natural defenses, and they can put up an admirable fight - sometimes so well that we get a false sense of security from them. But not even the healthest or wisest person alive can put off being separated from everything by death. This is a powerful lesson that was built into us for spiritual reasons. A lesson of absolutes. Some of our cures and patches might work for a while, but we cannot cure death. It claims us "absolutely". Should we tell the great Physician of Life that we are okay with some of our symptoms and wouldn't mind living with them, or let Him address the disease at its roots? Why tolerate what will kill you? All the love in the world won't save you if there is any death left to separate you from it.

We should wonder if we are suddenly beset with distractions when we want to give ourselves over into God's care completely. Why the sudden interest by the spiritual world to keep us preoccupied with this life and this world? Is there something it doesn't want us to see?

 

[ACougar]

That is really the heart of the differance between our two faiths, we do not accept the concept of absolutes. Absolutes are not found in nature, and nature is our gospel. I am familier with your belief in absolutes and I can understand why you need Jesus to bring you into a state of absolute good. This concept however doesn't fit into Neo-Paganism, nothing is ever absolutly good or evil. It's a key differance and one that anyone struggling between the two faiths needs to understand.

That's the difference that absolutes make. The God of Israel would tolerate no other gods or spiritual distractions, not even the helpful or "benign" ones. The good/evil dichotomy within people can help us with certain decisions, but it isn't enough to save us. It too often depends on how strong you assume your "aura" is, how influencial you think the "evil" is. That's betting rather heavily on yourself, against forces that share none of our limitations and can even pose as angels of light?



Jesus used the Jewish example of yeast. While you may start out with a lot of good and "just enough but not too much" spice to make it tasty - it soon pervades like an undetectable virus through every healthy cell. This process - physically and spiritually - leads to certain death. God is pure good, and wants nothing less than to make us into a new batch of bread without any yeast to taint it: something that will endure like he meant it to. "Taste" is an extremely dangerous and subjective rule for faith.

Galatians 5:7-9 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough."​

Our bodies have been created with natural defenses, and they can put up an admirable fight - sometimes so well that we get a false sense of security from them. But not even the healthest or wisest person alive can put off being separated from everything by death. This is a powerful lesson that was built into us for spiritual reasons. A lesson of absolutes. Some of our cures and patches might work for a while, but we cannot cure death. It claims us "absolutely". Should we tell the great Physician of Life that we are okay with some of our symptoms and wouldn't mind living with them, or let Him address the disease at its roots? Why tolerate what will kill you? All the love in the world won't save you if there is any death left to separate you from it.


We should wonder if we are suddenly beset with distractions when we want to give ourselves over into God's care completely. Why the sudden interest by the spiritual world to keep us preoccupied with this life and this world? Is there something it doesn't want us to see?

 

[heron]

Religions have different reasons for being good.

1. To ensure a higher life form in reincarnation
2. To guarantee a positive afterlife
3. To step up on a heirarchy of religious respect
4. To please gods that might make the volcano blow
5. To avoid coal in the stocking
6. To make earthly life better for everyone
7. To live without regret
...and on

The premise of Christianity is that goodness is beneficial, and keeps a healthier community (fewer robberies, thefts, abuses) but God is the essence of goodness, and he asks us to do these things out of care for our living conditions.

This seems similar to what you believe.

Our destructive actions can also make God's skin crawl, so He has set up heaven to be a place of no sorrow--with safety from abuse, cheating, lies and destruction. To be transformed to live that way, we need to be cleansed from the times we have slipped into those ways.

The cleansing is for this life, too, a daily renewal process. (Or hourly.)

To grasp the Jesus-atonement concept, it's easier to understand the Jewish customs first. But that would take us way off track from the original thread.

​

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. II Cor. 5:31

As someone said earlier (or was that another thread?) God holds back answering the prayers of people who are intent on destroying others. If a wife-beater prays that his wife never leaves the house, God does not need to feel obligated to attend to those prayers.

In all this thought on Christianity, remember the diversity of those speaking. You will run into a vast range of beliefs that come under the Christian heading. Also, if someone is new to the faith, they might not have a grasp of it all, and are repeating isolated statements, or what they've heard from others. We are trying to offer core statements that follow the broad heart of the Bible.


​

 

[ACougar]

Religions have different reasons for being good.


1. To ensure a higher life form in reincarnation
2. To guarantee a positive afterlife
3. To step up on a heirarchy of religious respect
4. To please gods that might make the volcano blow
5. To avoid coal in the stocking
6. To make earthly life better for everyone
7. To live without regret
...and on

​

8. Because you are apart of all things, what you do unto others you do unto yourself.
9. Because we always on some level reap what we sow.

The premise of Christianity is that goodness is beneficial, and keeps a healthier community (fewer robberies, thefts, abuses) but God is the essence of goodness, and he asks us to do these things out of care for our living conditions.

I know quiet a few Christians who would argue with your premis of Christianity. My own take on Christinaity is the God is pure good and that with Sin we can't be in his presence. Jesus payed the price for that sin so now through his sacrifice we can be made pure enough to be in Gods presence.

In a world without absolutes there is a need to struggle for goodness however we can not be seperated from the Divine because it is in us no matter what. We will always reap what we sow, (there is no get out of jail free card) this allows us to learn from our mistakes and grow in wisdom and understanding.
​

 

[sincerebliss]

*Big hugs to everyone!*

 

[heron]

Happy Birthday! May your year ahead bring wonderful circumstances, great opportunities, and caring friends.