Anti-christ is a Canadian ?

[TribulationSigns]

The fallen angels are not the demons. Demons are disembodied spirits. The bible calls them "uncleaned" spirits. Where did they come from? The nephillim were a race created by the interaction of the fallen angels who had sex with earth women (it does not indicate whether they had sex with men or not). But it does indicate woman.

When the nephillim died, their bodies were emptied of the spirit within, which became the demons, displacing the traits of the fallen angels who began the race.

Another example of speculation. More private interpretation without bible reference whatsoever.

You seem to think that these sons of God in Genesis, who lusted after the beautiful women of men, were "angels"; or that the giants [nephil] were super beings, is such a twisted form of eisegesis that reads into the scriptures what is not there. This idea, considering Scripture, is nothing short of ridiculous. Yes, RIDICULOUS!

There are many other things to be considered here as well. Number one, didn't Christ Himself tell us that when we get to heaven, we will be like the angels, who neither marry nor are given in marriage?

Matthew 22:30

• "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

So how can Christians then simply ignore this, and say these were angels marrying women of this earth in Genesis chapter six? One popular way is to rationalize this away and claim that they're no longer angels. But how then are they called by God, sons of God (which they claim means angels) and define them as His children? It makes no sense at all. They cannot be angels and take women to wife, and yet be cast out angels, who are also sons of God. If they are not angels, what else can they be? If we say they are anything else, where is the Biblical justification for saying that? We certainly can't just guess, assume or blindly speculate. That's not how we interpret scripture. We must use scripture to interpret scripture. That means saying these are exactly what God says that sons of God are--His children, or those who call Him their Father. That may not be the most intriguing, fascinating, captivating, titillating or sensationally interesting interpretation that you refuse to teach here or on your YouTube, but it will be the most faithful and biblical interpretation.

By the way, You need to learn how to find biblical references for Nephilims.

 

[Timtofly]

Your analogy of the birthday present is unrelated to even the premise of the discussion. But just for the sake of answering it, i would go for the later just leave it because it is useless. Again, this analogy has no connection to the logic and context of my argument, it's as if you are trying to find an answer to show your side makes sense, not even realizing that your response is irrelevant.

Now to bring you back: You have an evil emperor who is trying to conquer a land; he has builds a plan and course of action to "get what he wants (as you put it).. now, there is this manuscript that says if he executes this plan his goal will result into his demise. You think he would still go for that plan or would he conceive a different plan to get what he wants?

Satan should be viewed as not building anything. Not even an evil emporer taking over a land. Satan already thinks he is in control. But Satan can only do what God allows him to do.

You don't like my analogy, but in reality Satan coming up with plans is only an effort in futility. What ever God allows Satan to do, can just as easily be undone.

 

[Cis.jd]

Satan should be viewed as not building anything. Not even an evil emporer taking over a land. Satan already thinks he is in control. But Satan can only do what God allows him to do.

You don't like my analogy, but in reality Satan coming up with plans is only an effort in futility. What ever God allows Satan to do, can just as easily be undone.

It's not because of liking/disliking your analogy, it just is very irrelevant to the point in my posts. All of this has no matter or connection at all to anything i said. What does this have anything to do about how him having all his actions and details put on a book for him to know and have the common sense to avoid?

 

[Dale]

The fallen angels are not the demons. Demons are disembodied spirits. The bible calls them "uncleaned" spirits. Where did they come from? The nephillim were a race created by the interaction of the fallen angels who had sex with earth women (it does not indicate whether they had sex with men or not). But it does indicate woman.

When the nephillim died, their bodies were emptied of the spirit within, which became the demons, displacing the traits of the fallen angels who began the race.

Dougg, you can’t expect us to take your word for it when it leads to such bizarre conclusions.

Zondervan’s Old Testament commentary on Genesis 6:1-4

“Historically, there have been three views of vv.1-4. The ‘sons of God’ are (1) angels (the oldest); (2) royalty (also very old); and (3) pious men from the ‘line of Seth.’ The first view has not been widely held since it appears to contradict Matthew 22:30. The commonly accepted view is that the ‘sons of God’ refer to the godly line of Seth.”

In other words, the “sons of God” were the descendants of Seth, who kept knowledge of the Most High God. The “daughters of men” were the descendants of Cain, who were much more worldly. The descendants of Seth erred by intermarrying with the descendants of Cain without giving enough thought to how they were going to pass their understanding of God’s ways onto their children. They intermarried with women who may have been beautiful but were either pagan or half-pagan. On top of that, they did not pay enough attention to the education of their children.

The passage is not about sexual relations between mortal women and devils or fallen angels, or about monsters resulting from these unions. Rather it is warning about the dangers of intermarriage. People who understand God’s ways and laws need to pass this knowledge on to the next generation, which sometimes requires difficult decisions.

 

[Dale]

The fallen angels are not the demons. Demons are disembodied spirits. The bible calls them "uncleaned" spirits. Where did they come from? The nephillim were a race created by the interaction of the fallen angels who had sex with earth women (it does not indicate whether they had sex with men or not). But it does indicate woman.

When the nephillim died, their bodies were emptied of the spirit within, which became the demons, displacing the traits of the fallen angels who began the race.

Dougg, try looking at some of the great commentaries before taking off on a wild conjecture.

John Gill’s commentary on Genesis 6:2.


<< Ver. 2. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair,....
Or "good" {k}, not in a moral but natural sense; goodly to look upon, of a
beautiful aspect; and they looked upon, and only regarded their external
beauty, and lusted after them: those "sons of God" were not angels either good
or bad, as many have thought, since they are incorporeal beings, and cannot be
affected with fleshly lusts, or marry and be given in marriage, or generate and
be generated ... >>

and

<< According to the Arabic writers {l}, immediately after the death of Adam the
family of Seth was separated from the family of Cain; Seth took his sons and
their wives to a high mountain (Hermon), on the top of which Adam was
buried, and Cain and all his sons lived in the valley beneath, where Abel was
slain; and they on the mountain obtained a name for holiness and purity, and
were so near the angels that they could hear their voices and join their hymns
with them; and they, their wives and their children, went by the common name
of the sons of God: and now these were adjured, by Seth and by succeeding
patriarchs, by no means to go down from the mountain and join the Cainites;
but notwithstanding in the times of Jared some did go down, it seems ... >>

From John Gill’s Commentary on Genesis 6:3

<< for that he also is flesh; not only carnal and corrupt, but sadly corrupted, and
wholly given up to and immersed in sensual lusts and carnal pleasures, so as
not to be restrained nor reformed; even the posterity of Seth, professors of

religion also, as well as the profane world and posterity of Cain … >>


From John Gill’s Commentary on Genesis 6:4

<< . There were giants in the earth in those days,.... That is, in the days
before the sons of God took the daughters of men for wives, in such a general
manner as before declared, or before the declension and apostasy became so
universal; even in the times of Jared, as the Arabic writers {n} understand it,
who say that these giants were begotten on the daughters of Cain by the
children of Seth, who went down from the mountain to them in the days of
Jared, ... the word "Nephilim" comes from a word which signifies to
fall; and these might be so called, either because they made their fear to fall
upon men, or men, through fear, to fall before them, because of their height
and strength; or rather because they fell and rushed on men with great
violence, and oppressed them in a cruel and tyrannical manner; or, as some
think, because they fell off and were apostates from the true religion, which is
much better than to understand them of apostate angels … >>



As Gill tells us, “nephilim” means “to fall” but that doesn’t mean they were angels
before they fell. Mortals can also err, fall, and depart from God’s ways.

 

[Douggg]

As Gill tells us, “nephilim” means “to fall” but that doesn’t mean they were angels
before they fell. Mortals can also err, fall, and depart from God’s ways.

The nephillim were the result of the fallen angels having sex with human women. Many persons conjecture as part of a plan to alter the human race in order to prevent the messiah. The nephillim themselves were not angels, but an altered form of humans, as a result of the fallen angels abnormal sexually activities, involving the human race.

The abyss is commonly considered the bottomless pit. Human souls do not go into that place. It is only where fallen angels are held and demons (the disembodied spirits of nephillim when they die)

 

[TribulationSigns]

The nephillim were the result of the fallen angels having sex with human women. Many persons conjecture as part of a plan to alter the human race in order to prevent the messiah. The nephillim themselves were not angels, but an altered form of humans, as a result of the fallen angels abnormal sexually activities, involving the human race.

Whoa! These are massive assumptions you are building your doctrine on there. No where in the Bible that clearly agrees with your text. When will you learn to quote Scripture to support such nonsense!? This whole idea of yours is science fiction, not anything at all based upon Scripture. Which means its not even worth debating. You are wrong. period.

The abyss is commonly considered the bottomless pit. Human souls do not go into that place. It is only where fallen angels are held and demons (the disembodied spirits of nephillim when they die)

Silly.

God is NOT talking about literal angels and demons here. Please read the verse and the context carefully:

2Pe 2:1-4
(1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
(2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
(3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
(4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

When you read this Scripture, you automatically thought GOd is talking about literal angels with literal chains down to a place where human souls won't go. Think again!

The angels in verse 4 means messengers. God is talking about evil human messengers according to the context. Ie. they are false teachers and prophets.

The chains "signify" that the souls of these dead unbelievers are restrained of God from any life activity, a restraint from doing anything. They are reserved in a place of nothingness. As when you are in pitch dark where you can't see anything there. You're as dead to life.

Without consciousness of seeing, knowing, or hearing anything until the second resurrection for Judgment Day. Then, and only then, are these souls raised up again unto life to be judged. For example, here in the darkness of nothing is where they are reserved unto that judgment.

And for anyone here who wants to know more about what it is like for the souls of the Elect and the unbelievers (messengers) when they physically die.

When people die, they go to different destinations depending upon if they were raised up in Christ or not. Those who were saved, in their souls immediately go to live and reign with Christ in heaven (Revelation 20). Those who die unsaved, never experiencing the first resurrection in Christ (born again), cannot go to "live" and reign with Christ, these dead go into a state of blankness and silence, where they have no knowledge of themselves, no memory, no conscious existence (life) of any kind. It is a sort of "state of suspended animation" wherein they have no sense of time in consciousness. When they die, the next thing they are conscious of is that they are standing right before the judgment throne of God! They did not go "hell" to suffer for a while before called to the Throne of God for judgment. That is false. For example, speaking of these dead, we read:

Ecclesiastes 9:4-5

• "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
• For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

In other words, these dead do not know anything "because" they have no conscious existence. It is like being asleep, like soul sleep, but without waking up and without feelings or sense of time and space. they're in the dark without knowledge of anything. Just like you are put to sleep for major surgery.

Ecclesiastes 9:10

• "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

For those who claim that there is "hard labor in hell" for the wicked who die, or that they can still see us, or that they have knowledge of us, these passages speak clearly against such conclusions. The souls of the unsaved who die are in a state of unconsciousness where they do not live again (have living or conscious existence) until the second Resurrection, when they are resurrected from that non-life state to stand before God and be judged. The souls of the dead who were saved (first Resurrected - born again in Christ), went directly to live and reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:5

• "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

These souls of the unsaved who die are the rest of the dead who have no life (conscience existence) until the second resurrection. It is because they never accepted Christ and experienced born again (first resurrection) before they physicall died. The souls of the saved go to reign and praise God for evermore, and the souls of the rest of the dead do not live, but are unremembered, not knowing anything, as they are in darkness and silence.

Psalms 6:5

• "For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"

Those who die unsaved remember nothing, they know nothing and they can say nothing. No one can give them thanks, as no one can talk to them. They have no conscience existence. They remain waiting in dark silence, unable to praise anyone or thank anyone, or to receive thanks. They wait for the second resurrection, and the voice heralding God's judgment.

Psalms 115:17-18

• "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
• But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD".

Here we see the perfect contrast between one soul, and the other. The soul of the righteous can bless the Lord from now and forevermore because we never see this going down into silence in death that verse seventeen declares the unsaved are in. Unlike them, we will bless the Lord and praise His name for evermore. The rest cannot praise the Lord, nor live again until the second resurrection when they are brought back to conscious existence.

Revelation 20:11-13

• "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
• And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
• And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

In verse 4 we saw the testimony about the souls who have part in the first resurrection, and in these verses 11-13 we see the second resurrection, where the rest of the dead are raised up to life (conscious existence) to stand for judgment.

Psalms 88:10-12

• "Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
• Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
• Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?"

The "land of forgetfulness" is a place of no remembrance, no consciousness, of silence, of no knowledge, as the other scriptures indicated. It is the land of no conscious existence, no life (as we know it).

As contrasted with the saved who die and cease not saying Holy, Holy, Holy. The souls of the unsaved who die know nothing, they are in darkness, in silence, saying, knowing, and remembering nothing until they are raised in the second resurrection to stand before God to be judged. The wicked are NOT living in the SAME sense that the righteous are Living. They have conscience existence, while the souls of the rest of the dead do not for they were chains into darkness awaits Judgment Day.

Selah!

 

[Timtofly]

It's not because of liking/disliking your analogy, it just is very irrelevant to the point in my posts. All of this has no matter or connection at all to anything i said. What does this have anything to do about how him having all his actions and details put on a book for him to know and have the common sense to avoid?

Because Satan's options are limited. The only thing Satan wants in Revelation 13 is to be worshipped and to be able to create life. Why do you think science has hit a road block with artificial intelligence? That is as far as Satan thought up in his science, he has given humanity. God gave Satan allowances. That "gift" is about to expire.

 

[Timtofly]

Dougg, you can’t expect us to take your word for it when it leads to such bizarre conclusions.

Zondervan’s Old Testament commentary on Genesis 6:1-4

“Historically, there have been three views of vv.1-4. The ‘sons of God’ are (1) angels (the oldest); (2) royalty (also very old); and (3) pious men from the ‘line of Seth.’ The first view has not been widely held since it appears to contradict Matthew 22:30. The commonly accepted view is that the ‘sons of God’ refer to the godly line of Seth.”

In other words, the “sons of God” were the descendants of Seth, who kept knowledge of the Most High God. The “daughters of men” were the descendants of Cain, who were much more worldly. The descendants of Seth erred by intermarrying with the descendants of Cain without giving enough thought to how they were going to pass their understanding of God’s ways onto their children. They intermarried with women who may have been beautiful but were either pagan or half-pagan. On top of that, they did not pay enough attention to the education of their children.

The passage is not about sexual relations between mortal women and devils or fallen angels, or about monsters resulting from these unions. Rather it is warning about the dangers of intermarriage. People who understand God’s ways and laws need to pass this knowledge on to the next generation, which sometimes requires difficult decisions.

People forget what God actually did on the 6th Day. The sons of God were male and female images of God on earth. Adam was one of many created in God's image. Seth was the line of fallen humans. It was not until Enosh was born, that Adam's descendants began to seek God. Genesis 4:26

"To Shet too was born a son, whom he called Enosh. That is when people began to call on the name of Adonai."

Enosh was born 205 years after Adam disobeyed God and his offspring were separated from God. Seth was born 100 years after Adam disobeyed.

Cain was cursed in that he could no longer till the ground. Since he could not work and feed himself nor his family, he had to find another way to live. Nor could the other sons of God avenge Abel's death, by killing Cain. Cain was not born after Adam left the Garden. Cain and Abel were in the Garden, because Abel was the son who took care of the animal sacrifices in the Garden after Adam and Eve were forced out. Cain talked to God in the Garden, because that is what chapter 4 claims. Cain would not have that ability if he was a fallen human. Only after he killed Abel, did God cast Cain out of the Garden from God's presence. Cain had to be marked to tell the other sons of God, that as a son of God, Cain was cursed, otherwise they would not know the difference between him and them. That is not the traditional teaching. The traditional teachings do not make sense when compared to the Word of God. The first 4 chapters are not in a linear sequence. They over lap. They need to be taken as separate accounts on their own narratives.

Adam and Seth were fallen "men". Cain and many others were the sons of God, in God's full image. It was not that all the males of one married the daughters of the other. Both genders from the sons of God mixed God's image into the fallen likeness of Seth and Adam's offspring. I do not think it happened until a certain point. About 5 generations. Because Lamech in chapter 4 bragged about killing 2 humans. If his great, great, etc father Cain got "away with it", he could get away with sin even more. Sin had been around for hundreds of years and death and decay noticeable. The sons of God would inevitably succumb to it's effects. They could not eradicate sin. Obviously the first few generations after Adam's disobedience could no longer control the newer generations hundreds of years later.

By the time Methuselah was born, 600 years later, sin had infested all living on the earth. It lasted another 969 years. Then the Flood came, and destroyed all of sinful offspring. Only Noah and 7 others were spared. It is a fact that Noah himself lived 500 years before having his 3 sons, triplets. Did he wait to take a wife, did he have other offspring before them? We do not know all the details. Perhaps he tried to walk everyday with God like Enoch did to avoid sin? Eventually God said he had to take a wife, and would father triplets. He would have to repopulate the earth after the Flood. We can only speculate, but Noah as a fallen human listened to God. We know that much.

 

[Cis.jd]

Because Satan's options are limited. The only thing Satan wants in Revelation 13 is to be worshipped and to be able to create life. Why do you think science has hit a road block with artificial intelligence? That is as far as Satan thought up in his science, he has given humanity. God gave Satan allowances. That "gift" is about to expire.

You are missing the point again.. and you are giving such irrelevant responses. My argument isn't about what satan wants, it's him doing what Revelation said/wrote he plans to do. How dumb can this satan be when he sees his "plan A" already written to it's conclusion and still do it?

 

[Timtofly]

You are missing the point again.. and you are giving such irrelevant responses. My argument isn't about what satan wants, it's him doing what Revelation said/wrote he plans to do. How dumb can this satan be when he sees his "plan A" already written to it's conclusion and still do it?

How can what Satan "wants" not be the same thing as his "plans"? Do you know Satan's plans?

 

[Cis.jd]

How can what Satan "wants" not be the same thing as his "plans"? Do you know Satan's plans?

No they are not the same because a plan is a strategy to attain what it is desired. So his entire plan is already written with the outcome already spoiled in Revelation and he is still going to execute that same plan?

 

[Dale]

The fallen angels are not the demons. Demons are disembodied spirits. The bible calls them "uncleaned" spirits. Where did they come from? The nephillim were a race created by the interaction of the fallen angels who had sex with earth women (it does not indicate whether they had sex with men or not). But it does indicate woman.

When the nephillim died, their bodies were emptied of the spirit within, which became the demons, displacing the traits of the fallen angels who began the race.

Dougg: “The fallen angels are not the demons. Demons are disembodied spirits.”

On making a distinction between “fallen angels” and “demons,” this reminds me of a video I’ve seen. It was on the end times and it was by one of the famous evangelists. I believe it was James Hagee. He says that there are two kinds of demons, or devils. One type runs around on the earth and another type flies around in the air. I dismissed his explanation of types of demons as nonsense for lack of evidence. Your explanation of devils and demons is no better.

Dougg: “When the nephillim died, their bodies were emptied of the spirit within, which became the demons, displacing the traits of the fallen angels who began the race.”

Your explanation makes no sense. First, you assume that fallen angels have physical bodies, that they can have sex with humans. Then you assume that their progeny, the “nephilim,” have no opportunity for salvation. Where does the Bible say that anyone is born with no possibility of salvation?

Then you say that when they die, their souls become “unclean spirits” which possess people. This doesn’t make sense. If such beings ever existed, their souls would simply go to the place where unsaved souls go. There would be no special destination for them, like becoming an “unclean spirit.”

 

[Dale]

The fallen angels are not the demons. Demons are disembodied spirits. The bible calls them "uncleaned" spirits. Where did they come from? The nephillim were a race created by the interaction of the fallen angels who had sex with earth women (it does not indicate whether they had sex with men or not). But it does indicate woman.

When the nephillim died, their bodies were emptied of the spirit within, which became the demons, displacing the traits of the fallen angels who began the race.

Since you are trying to make a distinction between fallen angels and unclean spirits, or demons, consider this passage.





But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by
Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom
divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or
household divided against itself will not stand.
If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How
then can his kingdom stand?
And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your
people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the
kingdom of God has come upon you.
Matthew 12:24-28 NIV

According to the explanation that Dougg gave in #100, demons are “unclean spirits” of the nephilim but not fallen angels. Here Jesus tells us that demons, or “unclean spirits” are under Satan’s jurisdiction. Jesus says that Satan driving out a demon would be a contradiction for Satan does not drive out Satan. He clearly does not make a distinction between possession by Satan and possession by a demon or “unclean spirit.” They are the same thing.

Dougg, how do you answer this?

 

[Dale]

God was aware of all that. I do not think Satan is decieved.

You put too much emphasis on Satan. We know very little about Satan.

What is the point of saying that Satan is not deceived?

We know that God is not deceived. Let’s say that God is not deceived and leave it at that.

 

[Douggg]

On making a distinction between “fallen angels” and “demons,” this reminds me of a video I’ve seen. It was on the end times and it was by one of the famous evangelists. I believe it was James Hagee. He says that there are two kinds of demons, or devils. One type runs around on the earth and another type flies around in the air. I dismissed his explanation of types of demons as nonsense for lack of evidence. Your explanation of devils and demons is no better.

demons, also called devils, are referred to as unclean spirits that Jesus cast out.

Then you say that when they die, their souls become “unclean spirits” which possess people. This doesn’t make sense. If such beings ever existed, their souls would simply go to the place where unsaved souls go. There would be no special destination for them, like becoming an “unclean spirit.”

"unclean spirits" does not apply to humans. In Mark 5:8-13, the unclean spirit
in the man possessed were also called devils, legion, because their were many of them.

 

[Douggg]

According to the explanation that Dougg gave in #100, demons are “unclean spirits” of the nephilim but not fallen angels. Here Jesus tells us that demons, or “unclean spirits” are under Satan’s jurisdiction. Jesus says that Satan driving out a demon would be a contradiction for Satan does not drive out Satan. He clearly does not make a distinction between possession by Satan and possession by a demon or “unclean spirit.” They are the same thing.

Dougg, how do you answer this?

Satan is over the unclean spirits. The unclean spirits are a product of some of Satan's third of the angels having sex with human women. The results was the giants, the nephillim.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

[Timtofly]

No they are not the same because a plan is a strategy to attain what it is desired. So his entire plan is already written with the outcome already spoiled in Revelation and he is still going to execute that same plan?

Satan's only plan was to decieve mankind. Satan has already done that in various ways.

 

[Timtofly]

You put too much emphasis on Satan. We know very little about Satan.

What is the point of saying that Satan is not deceived?

We know that God is not deceived. Let’s say that God is not deceived and leave it at that.

Humans can be decieved. How about leaving it at that?