Answering any questions on Evolution

[madaz]

People can say lots of things. Everyone gets an opinion.

Opinions are worthless against the facts.

It is better to know than to believe.

 

[madaz]

Seems some people are just too lazy to do the research on evolution so instead they give us their ignorant opinion instead.

Why?

It only takes a couple of hours a day for just a few months to get a very basic understanding of evolution.

Its not that hard.

If a simple man like me can do it anybody can.

 

[Naraoia]

Seems some people are just too lazy to do the research on evolution so instead they give us their ignorant opinion instead.

Why?

It only takes a couple of hours a day for just a few months to get a very basic understanding of evolution.

Its not that hard.

If a simple man like me can do it anybody can.

The basics don't even take that long. I think the UC Berkeley Evolution 101 is an excellent introduction to them. Its full table of contents consists of 46 entries if I counted right, and all of those entries are very short and clearly written, readable in a few minutes. You could get through the whole thing in a leisurely working day. In a few months, you could learn it by heart.

Then you're ready to spend a lifetime delving into the nuances

 

[SkyWriting]

Seems some people are just too lazy to do the research on evolution so instead they give us their ignorant opinion instead.
Why?
It only takes a couple of hours a day for just a few months to get a very basic understanding of evolution.
Its not that hard.
If a simple man like me can do it anybody can.

There ya go. Anybody can get what they teach in a day or so.
And you can learn what value it has in just a few minutes.

 

[SkyWriting]

You will never find it. Biology is complicated. The fact you want to reduce it to a level a 5 year old can understand not withstanding.

Actually another poster came up with 3 that I'm looking at.
I still don't get how you can say stuff is complicated and has
no basic structure or form or process. That's an odd mentality.
I want to reduce it? And that is bad in your world?





Living and Nonliving Students observe living and nonliving things and discuss what living things need to survive.



Animals: Here and Now Students identify, classify, and discuss animals.



Animal Round Game Students play a game and classify animals.



Dinosaurs�Read All About Them! Students use reference materials to research and identify dinosaurs.



Do Animals Play Hide and Seek? Students use fabric cutouts of animals to discuss camouflaging.



Journey Into a Cell Students write and illustrate stories about cells.



The Incredible, Edible Cell Students create a Jello model of a cell with various cell parts.



Life in a Drop of Water Students observe organisms in various types of water and classify them as single-celled or multi-cellular.



Nutrition Students discuss nutrients, energy sources, and food groups.



An Introduction to the Senses Students identify body parts associated with the five senses and perform simple experiments involving the senses.



Breathing Is Essential to Life Students gather data on breathing and respiration.



Understanding Change Students discuss the concept of change as it applies to the Earth and environment.



Food Chain Students create different types of food chains.

 

[NailsII]

Thanks for saving me the time to explain, much appreciated. I can say without sarcasm good argument. YOU WON!

Thank you, but this is not about winning or losing.

I've done that scores of times. What I've always been looking for
is a major or minor law, or hypothesis even that supports the notion
of a common and simple origin for all life. Jus' one little rule we can
test for validity.

Because all life springs from this one point, then some rule must
be allowing it to happen. Something completely universal and present
in all life that we find.

You seem to be confused (again).
I said nothing about the origins of life - I offered you some laws of evolution. The two are completely different.
i have never met anyone who expects the theory of gravity to expain the origin of the universe, so why should evolution explain the origin of life?

My stand exactly. We are linked arm and arm.

(I'll have to read through your laws before I comment.)

so why is it in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught?
It is a major point - one fleeting glance at the natural world would suggest that god likes death and blood sports, arming predators with a frightening array of weapons, venoms, toxins, camoflage etc - prey spend half their lives scared of the wind in case the rustle is looking for dinner.
The same is true of the microscopic world, these little blighters have some really ingeneous way of inflicting pain, death and misery.

Any social mammal species can - and often do - live in harmony where they have a leasder (a king, or an alpha male) who commands over his subjects. They look after each other - not in the same way as humans, because we are the only mammals with operating theatres.
But I think you get the general point.
Ants are a good example as well, they live in social harmony without Jesus or a bible.
Yet they are also effective killers, capable of taking down animals many times their size.

Why?

The real world is nothing like the world of scripture.
Therefore any explanation of the real world does not have to include Jesus.

 

[SkyWriting]

You seem to be confused (again). I said nothing about the origins of life - I offered you some laws of evolution. The two are completely different. I have never met anyone who expects the theory of gravity to expain the origin of the universe, so why should evolution explain the origin of life?

Why would "Change" explain how life came about? Hmmm let me think.
No. Let's let the professionals speak on this for a moment:

-Exploring Life's Origins: A Timeline of Life's Evolution

-NOVA | Revealing the Origins of Life

-Evolution finds shelter in small spaces.
Lehman N.
Source
Department of Chemistry, Portland State University, PO Box 751, Portland, OR 97207, USA.
Abstract
When RNA is replicated in cell-free systems, a ubiquitous problem is the hijacking of the system by short parasitic RNA sequences. In this issue of Chemistry & Biology, Bansho et al. show that compartmentalization into water-in-oil droplets can ameliorate this problem, but only if the droplets are small. This result helps to both recapitulate abiogenesis and optimize synthetic biology.Copyright © 2012 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.PMID: 22520748 [PubMed - in process]

You can insist all day long till your blue-faced. Peer reviewed literature uses the terms interchangeably.

But lets get to the real issue here. I was describing common decent, not biogenesis.

...supports the notion of a common and simple origin for all life. Jus' one little rule we can test for validity. Because all life springs from this one point...

so why is it in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught?
It is a major point - one fleeting glance at the natural world would suggest that god likes death and blood sports, arming predators with a frightening array of weapons, venoms, toxins, camoflage etc - prey spend half their lives scared of the wind in case the rustle is looking for dinner.
The same is true of the microscopic world, these little blighters have some really ingeneous way of inflicting pain, death and misery.

Jesus taught none of that. Great point.

Any social mammal species can - and often do - live in harmony where they have a leasder (a king, or an alpha male) who commands over his subjects. They look after each other - not in the same way as humans, because we are the only mammals with operating theatres. But I think you get the general point. Ants are a good example as well, they live in social harmony without Jesus or a bible. Yet they are also effective killers, capable of taking down animals many times their size. Why? The real world is nothing like the world of scripture. Therefore any explanation of the real world does not have to include Jesus.

Again, you describe a number of attributes of the natural world that Jesus condemns. You describe death and effective killers, and claim that this is not in opposition to what Jesus taught.

You can agree with me that humans are not animals, so Jesus was teaching us the guidelines that non animals should use (in direct opposition to natural rules). Or you can claim we are animals, and everything you described is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught. You win both ways.

 

[SkyWriting]

Opinions are worthless against the facts.

It is better to know than to believe.

If I was going to follow you, that would be a great slogan for your campaign.
Faith is just a road you've not taken yet.

 

[madaz]

If I was going to follow you, that would be a great slogan for your campaign.
Faith is just a road you've not taken yet.

1. "It is better to know than to believe" Is the rational way to reason.
2. My campaign? What planet are you on?
3. Following and believing is for the naive and poorly educated, become a leader.
4. Faith is a road I once travelled, what gives you the right to make false statements to the contrary. I speak from experience. Faith leads to regress. To adopt faith is to sacrifice logic, sacrificing logic prevents reason.

 

[NailsII]

Jesus taught none of that. Great point.

Again, you describe a number of attributes of the natural world that Jesus condemns. You describe death and effective killers, and claim that this is not in opposition to what Jesus taught.

You can agree with me that humans are not animals, so Jesus was teaching us the guidelines that non animals should use (in direct opposition to natural rules). Or you can claim we are animals, and everything you described is in direct opposition to what Jesus taught. You win both ways.

Ok, the first part of your post made no sense to me whatsoever.
I'll read it again tomorrow when I'm not so tired.

My point was, that if Jesus (or Yahweh) made the universe and all the animals that we see today, why have they got such massively different rules? Yahweh likes conquest, as do Toxoplasma gondii.
Only they don't stop when they have your land. Or their land back. Whatever.
But Jesus doesn't - so what gives?

Mimicry and deception is king in the animal world, yet this is potentially in violation of the ninth commandment.

If Jesus condemns death, why does he allow it?
The death of one animal is dinner for another - death is integral to the natural world.
Jesus could do something about that.
He could make it so an animal wouldn't feel pain as a large feline crushes its windpipe until it is dead.
He could eliminate malaria with one gesture.

That was my point.

 

[SkyWriting]

Ok, the first part of your post made no sense to me whatsoever.
I'll read it again tomorrow when I'm not so tired.

My point was, that if Jesus (or Yahweh) made the universe and all the animals that we see today, why have they got such massively different rules? Yahweh likes conquest, as do Toxoplasma gondii.Only they don't stop when they have your land. Or their land back. Whatever. But Jesus doesn't - so what gives?Mimicry and deception is king in the animal world, yet this is potentially in violation of the ninth commandment.If Jesus condemns death, why does he allow it?The death of one animal is dinner for another - death is integral to the natural world.Jesus could do something about that.He could make it so an animal wouldn't feel pain as a large feline crushes its windpipe until it is dead.He could eliminate malaria with one gesture.That was my point.

Death is not optional. It's a result of man choosing to not live with God. The "Action" of Sin is doing things without God. The "wages" of Sin is Death.

It's just the "pay" or result from Sin.
Man is not "Animal" so Man has different rules.
Driving a car has different rules from riding a unicycle.
They could be made in the same building,by the same person, but still follow different rules.

 

[NailsII]

Death is not optional. It's a result of man choosing to not live with God. The "Action" of Sin is doing things without God. The "wages" of Sin is Death.

So, if I go on holiday in Australia and get eat by a large salt-water crocodile, it's Adam & Eve's fault?
Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

It's just the "pay" or result from Sin.
Man is not "Animal" so Man has different rules.
Driving a car has different rules from riding a unicycle.
They could be made in the same building,by the same person, but still follow different rules.

Last time i checked, humans were homonids, primates, mammals, chordates, and a living member of the animal kingdom.
If you have a better system for classifying humans, let us hear it.
A car and a unicycle are very different, which cannot be said from humans and other animals - unless you wear 'god-glasses' it would appear.

 

[madaz]

Death is not optional. It's a result of man choosing to not live with God. The "Action" of Sin is doing things without God. The "wages" of Sin is Death.

Death is NOT the result of man choosing "to not live with god"!!!

Death is the result of your heart stopping. It happens to EVERYONE!

 

[Non sequitur]

Death is NOT the result of man choosing "to not live with god"!!!

Death is the result of your heart stopping. It happens to EVERYONE!

Most people use the brain as the indicator of death, since your heart can be resuscitated.

 

[SkyWriting]

Death is NOT the result of man choosing "to not live with god"!!! Death is the result of your heart stopping. It happens to EVERYONE!

And I'm explaining that wouldn't be the case if Adam had not sinned.

The cells in your body are replaced an average of 7 times in your life.
Researchers will tell you there is no clear reason for that to stop.
They expect to find the cause for "natural" death some day.

 

[SkyWriting]

So, if I go on holiday in Australia and get eat by a large salt-water crocodile, it's Adam & Eve's fault?
Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

Sure.
But because you said it, you likely have thick enough skin to handle any flack.

The story goes that Adam walked with God in the Garden.
Going on the premise of the story, Adam wouldn't get eaten.

Then Adam split with God, got banished from the Garden, and no longer walked with God.

So here we are....not walking side by side with God.....and mad because our babies get eaten by croc's. And mad because we die. I guess we need a Savior.

Thanks. You made a good illustration of why we need a Savior.

 

[Non sequitur]

And I'm explaining that wouldn't be the case if Adam had not sinned.

The cells in your body are replaced an average of 7 times in your life.

How do we have permanent diseases, tooth decay, cancer, brain damage?

Can you be more specific about calls in your body being "replaced" an average of 7 times in your life.

Enamel doesn't get replaced.

Researchers will tell you there is no clear reason for that to stop.

Of course they will; they all will.

Death is the clear reason they stop replicating... wait, you are mixing the two. There is no clear reason for cells to stop replicating or there is no clear reason for death?

They expect to find the cause for "natural" death some day.

Uh. Heart attack, stroke, diabetes, earthquake, tsunami...

Who ever hears a doctor say, "I'm sorry, your son died of natural causes. We expect to find the cause of that some day"?

 

[SkyWriting]

How do we have permanent diseases, tooth decay, cancer, brain damage?

Sin and death are due to Adam's actions.

Can you be more specific about calls in your body being "replaced" an average of 7 times in your life. Enamel doesn't get replaced.

It's a generalization.
Ask a Naturalist.com » Do We Replace Our Cells Every 7 or 10 years?

(#1 is at least partly incorrect. New pathways do form.)

Death is the clear reason they stop replicating... wait, you are mixing the two. There is no clear reason for cells to stop replicating or there is no clear reason for death?

Both.

Uh. Heart attack, stroke, diabetes, earthquake, tsunami...

Yes, we currently do not walk alongside God....so....life is harder.

Who ever hears a doctor say, "I'm sorry, your son died of natural causes. We expect to find the cause of that some day"?

My cousin is an MD and she does not know the reason for the tumor wrapped around her optical nerve bundle.
She says that maybe someday people will have a clue why it happens.
So that's one doctor who is curious even if you're not.

 

[Non sequitur]

My cousin is an MD and she does not know the reason for the tumor wrapped around her optical nerve bundle.
She says that maybe someday people will have a clue why it happens.
So that's one doctor who is curious even if you're not.

The reason why there is an uncontrolled growth of abnormal cells? Specifically, around her optical nerve bundle?

 

[mkatzwork]

Yes, we currently do not walk alongside God....so....life is harder.

So the Earth's crust is unstable because Adam ate a piece of fruit?