Another thing I don't understand about the creationist position...

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FrumiousBandersnatch

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we can remove the existence of those species.
Some of them, perhaps, but definitely not all. OTOH, some of them could potentially remove us from existence, and humans are among the most vulnerable to catastrophe.

But in any case extermination ability seems a pretty bankrupt way to judge who's 'on top'.

Would you be proud to stand (starving) on the heap of rotting remains of all life on Earth as proof that you're 'on top'? [rhetorical]
 
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Speedwell

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A renowned theologian named C.S. Lewis wrote some childerns books many Christians are familiar with, where humans and animals refer to each other couisns. I don't recall anyone ever complaining about that.

As far as Genesis describing an evolutionary process goes, the belief of creationism is that that process, however it took place, didn't happen by itself.
No, that's not creationism. All of us who believe that there is a creator God believe "it didn't happen by itself" (although there is considerable difference of opinion as to what that would entail, metaphysically).

A creationist, as the term is generally used in this forum, is one who insists that creation took place in six literal 24-hour days 6000 years ago.
 
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Ophiolite

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my point is we are inarguably separate from the rest of the animal world in contrast to the point of the OP that there is no secret ingredient to the human race.
Well, I can readily refute that point, by the simple expedient of arguing against it. If we were separate from the animal kingdom:
  • We would not now be in the midst of a pandemic acquired from that kingdom
  • We would not have substantial portions of our economies dependent upon interaction with the animal kingdom
  • We would not share genetics, metabolisms, anatomical feature, organs and the like with the animal kingdom
  • We would not have behavioural patterns that mirror those found in the animal kingdom
  • The distinctive features of humans to not differ quanitatively from unique features found in specific animal clades (If you think they do provide evidence to support your assertion.)
 
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Ophiolite

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we can remove the existence of those species.
So the secret ingredient of humanity is, by your observation here, egotistic genocide. Good to know. Perhaps you meant something else, but it didn't come across as anything other than cynical immorality.
 
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Ceallaigh

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No, that's not creationism. All of us who believe that there is a creator God believe "it didn't happen by itself" (although there is considerable difference of opinion as to what that would entail, metaphysically).

A creationist, as the term is generally used in this forum, is one who insists that creation took place in six literal 24-hour days 6000 years ago.

Ah I see. I do think that's possible. How much can an all powerful eternal God accomplish in 60 seconds? Quite a lot I would imagine.

As for the age of the Earth, I was watching a movie clip about Adam and Eve, and I took into account that they started out as fully grown people, even though they were brand new. Like they were both brand new but also in their 20s. And they were walking around on a brand new but fully formed Earth. So likewise the Earth could be brand new, but also as old as planet at the Earth's present stage of development. The Earth could be 6000 years old chronologically, but billions of years old in development.
 
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DamianWarS

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So what is this 'secret ingredient'? careless destructiveness?
It doesn't matter what it is, there is still a inarguable separation. Since nothing else has reached these heights than it is reasonable to think that our uniquenesses are perhaps are specific to us and unattainable to others.
 
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DamianWarS

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Well, I can readily refute that point, by the simple expedient of arguing against it. If we were separate from the animal kingdom:
  • We would not now be in the midst of a pandemic acquired from that kingdom
  • We would not have substantial portions of our economies dependent upon interaction with the animal kingdom
  • We would not share genetics, metabolisms, anatomical feature, organs and the like with the animal kingdom
  • We would not have behavioural patterns that mirror those found in the animal kingdom
  • The distinctive features of humans to not differ quanitatively from unique features found in specific animal clades (If you think they do provide evidence to support your assertion.)
If we are not separate then there should be another species having the same discussion at the same levels at this very moment.
 
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DamianWarS

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So the secret ingredient of humanity is, by your observation here, egotistic genocide. Good to know. Perhaps you meant something else, but it didn't come across as anything other than cynical immorality.
It's not about judging human motivations or their products but recognizing there is a difference that nothing else has risen to. We are different in the bad things and in the good things (my immature post youre calling out should speak to that). I'm not sure why you're agruing, you know the point and it would be silly to reject it.
 
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Ophiolite

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If we are not separate then there should be another species having the same discussion at the same levels at this very moment.
That statement has no logic. No one is asserting that homo sapiens lacks unique features. We merely assert that the same is true of most, if not all, other species. We value our intellect because it is more highly developed in humans than any other animals. Some of us recognise that, valuable as it is, it is also responsible for the destruction of our environment, warfare and plays a role in social disharmony. A cheetah would not give up its speed for it, nor a hedgehog its spines.

I'm not sure why you're agruing, you know the point and it would be silly to reject it.
Your point seems to be twofold: humans have unique characteristics; these characteristics are responsible for human superiority (in your words, "a difference that nothing else has risen to".)
The contrasting points are, yes, humans have unique characteristics, but so do all other animals. Yes, humans are superior in certain ways, but other animals have chracteristics that "nothing else has risen to".
We are an integral part of the bioshpere. By any reasonable defenition we are animals. The notion that we are not is, in part, responsible for the current decimation of the environment.
 
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DamianWarS

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Yes, humans are superior in certain ways, but other animals have chracteristics that "nothing else has risen to".
each may have their unmatched characteristics, yet there is a uniquness about our species that is beyond these things. One that an alien race would have no issue identifing and one your are pretending doesn't exist for some reason.
 
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pitabread

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each may have their unmatched characteristics, yet there is a uniquness about our species that is beyond these things. One that an alien race would have no issue identifing and one your are pretending doesn't exist for some reason.

What "uniqueness" is that?
 
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Ophiolite

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each may have their unmatched characteristics, yet there is a uniquness about our species that is beyond these things. One that an alien race would have no issue identifing and one your are pretending doesn't exist for some reason.
If an alien race could identify it then I imagine you can as well. Please do so and explain in what way it is different from the unique features found in all animals; identify this ingredient that is "beyond these things".

Note: I'm not pretending anything. I genuinely don't understand why you fail to recognise that humanity is part of the animal kingdom.

Edit: Cross posted with @pitabread No need to answer both of us. A single response will work.
 
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DamianWarS

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If an alien race could identify it then I imagine you can as well. Please do so and explain in what way it is different from the unique features found in all animals; identify this ingredient that is "beyond these things".

Note: I'm not pretending anything. I genuinely don't understand why you fail to recognise that humanity is part of the animal kingdom.

Edit: Cross posted with @pitabread No need to answer both of us. A single response will work.
Sure.
1. Humans
2. Everything else

Humans are a part of the animal kingdom and I'm suggesting that within the animal kingdom there is a unparalleled difference with humans. Sorry if I can't tell you what the secret sauce is, my pointed isn't to name it, but rather reconize it's there.
 
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pitabread

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Not sure why you're pretending you don't know the point. It doesn't matter what you call it, humans have a difference that is unparalleled to the rest of the biological world.

I don't know how you define human "uniqueness". And if you can't or won't explain it, then I can only conclude that you don't know either.
 
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Speedwell

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Sure.
1. Humans
2. Everything else

Humans are a part of the animal kingdom and I'm suggesting that within the animal kingdom there is a unparalleled difference with humans. Sorry if I can't tell you what the secret sauce is, my pointed isn't to name it, but rather reconize it's there.
If you can't describe it, how can you be so sure that it is a qualitative rather than quantitative difference?
 
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Ophiolite

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Sure.
1. Humans
2. Everything else

Humans are a part of the animal kingdom and I'm suggesting that within the animal kingdom there is a unparalleled difference with humans. Sorry if I can't tell you what the secret sauce is, my pointed isn't to name it, but rather reconize it's there.
I am unsure why you think that is a meaningful and satisfactory reply. I shall give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not just jerking my chain, but as @pitabread says, if you cannot describe this unique thing then it seems you don't really have any idea what it is. If you ever figure it out send me a pm, as I shall be disregarding your future posts.
 
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