Another thing I don't understand about the creationist position...

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Hans Blaster

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Humans are different, undeniable.

All species are different than others. All species are unique. Otherwise, they wouldn't be separate species.
 
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DamianWarS

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Well, not exactly. What the OP wanted was the Creationists' answer, necessary or not, true or not.
Obviously the creationist answer is God and this just turns into a evidence of God thread. But we don't need to identify what the cause of the difference is to identify that there is a difference that biology alone seems inadequate to answer.
 
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DamianWarS

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All species are different than others. All species are unique. Otherwise, they wouldn't be separate species.
We are biologically unique but made up of the same biolgical stuff so why are humans so special? I'm suggesting this points to answer beyond biology because very clearly we are different yet biologically are nothing special.
 
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Hans Blaster

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We are biologically unique but made up of the same biolgical stuff so why are humans so special? I'm suggesting this points to answer beyond biology because very clearly we are different yet biologically are nothing special.

Really, were not that different. We're just the apes with message boards.
 
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Speedwell

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Obviously the creationist answer is God and this just turns into a evidence of God thread. But we don't need to identify what the cause of the difference is to identify that there is a difference that biology alone seems inadequate to answer.
Nor do we need to reject God if biology alone turns out to be the answer.
 
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Shemjaza

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Humans are almost certainly the smartest and best tool users in Earth's history... but we are not unique in having those traits.

I don't think just because we are exceptional in those area it's reasonable to just declare that it demonstrate a fundamental supernatural difference.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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There's the rub. It hasn't, and that's where a biological argument cast doubt.
We can't say it hasn't, only that if it did it's very probably extinct. However, as I mentioned, we do see species that are not closely related to us - some not even vertebrate - showing less sophisticated forms of our specialist traits.

But take any species that has an exceptional trait or traits that put it 'on top' in some particular respect - by definition, you won't find another species that matches it - because it's 'on top' regarding that trait... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

None of this casts doubt on the biological (evolutionary) argument. If you re-ran evolution given similar starting conditions you should not expect to get the same results, although you'd probably get similar solutions to common problems - like camera-style eyes, or wings, or flippers, which evolved independently several times. Given the range of existing creatures with significant intelligence and some degree of conscious self-awareness, you might well get another creature of human-level consciousness, given suitable opportunities; but pre-humans were in the right place at the right time, with a suitable body type to develop the way they did. There's no guarantee it would happen again.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Biological speaking we are the same, yet we still are clearly different. Since we all can agree that it's not a biological difference this logic would dictate to look at outside of biology.
Biologically, we are similar to other mammals. We are made of the same stuff, in the same way, and have the same basic structures as other mammals. But species are all different, what distinguishes us from other primates is the specialisation of our brains, which are a biological feature.

It is a biological difference, and it has been explored in some detail (albeit, we still have a lot more to discover about it).
 
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Speedwell

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Sure, but that doesn't really answer the problem presented in the OP
It certainly doesn't explain why creationists reject a naturalistic answer. The existence of God and His authorship of our being do not depend on it.
 
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DamianWarS

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Biologically, we are similar to other mammals. We are made of the same stuff, in the same way, and have the same basic structures as other mammals. But species are all different, what distinguishes us from other primates is the specialisation of our brains, which are a biological feature.

It is a biological difference, and it has been explored in some detail (albeit, we still have a lot more to discover about it).
We're not the only ones with big brains but humans are still markedly different. Biology of course explains the biological components but is unable to explain anything outside of itself. Because we are the only ones operating at these levels that no other species is known to cross over into it can suggest an influence that biology is blinded to.
 
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Speedwell

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We're not the only ones with big brains but humans are still markedly different. Biology of course explains the biological components but is unable to explain anything outside of itself. Because we are the only ones operating at these levels that no other species is known to cross over into it can suggest an influence that biology is blinded to.
Why "blinded" to? Evolutionary biology is not the 'science of everything' and doesn't pretend to be. It might just be an issue to be considered by a different scientific discipline.
 
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Shemjaza

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We're not the only ones with big brains but humans are still markedly different. Biology of course explains the biological components but is unable to explain anything outside of itself. Because we are the only ones operating at these levels that no other species is known to cross over into it can suggest an influence that biology is blinded to.
What specifically are you referring to?

Animals don't have the same level, but they have examples of memory, problem solving, creativity, tool use and curiosity.

I accept that humans are uniquely high in all these fields... but I can't see a fundamental jump, just a higher degree and emergent consequences.
 
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DamianWarS

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It certainly doesn't explain why creationists reject a naturalistic answer. The existence of God and His authorship of our being do not depend on it.
A narrow veiw of Scripture explains that. But what scripture identifies is a plausible source, "in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..." The details of the account my be goal driven and less about an accurate retelling and more about identifying the source. But in that first verse it would show us that God is preexistent to his creation and at the very least means God is outside of the natural world ergo God cannot be explained by the natural world. Of course we don't need the bible to tell us this as the idea alone of God demands it where something like the speghetti monster seems to be defined within a natural world sandbox.

If we had multiple human competition or at least evidence of a rising competition biology would begin to defeat God. But since there are no other examples an outside influencer may still explain our unique order
 
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DamianWarS

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Why "blinded" to? Evolutionary biology is not the 'science of everything' and doesn't pretend to be. It might just be an issue to be considered by a different scientific discipline.
Biology or science at large cannot see outside of itself, so science is unable to prove or disprove God. But the boundaries it draws creates a space outside of the boundaries.
 
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dlamberth

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But in that first verse it would show us that God is preexistent to his creation and at the very least means God is outside of the natural world ergo God cannot be explained by the natural world.
But, God can be "experienced" inside the natural world. Ergo (somehow I like that word), God can be known in the natural world.
 
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DamianWarS

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But, God can be "experienced" inside the natural world. Ergo (somehow I like that word), God can be known in the natural world.
Science is a vacuum with a goal of only finding answeres that can be explained in it's vacuum. It is blinded to anything else. Science cannot prove God, this is true, but it also cannot disprove God.
 
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