Another squeeze for your eschatological understanding.

[ivebeenshown]

You know, I don't even know or care what man-made ideology I may or may not fall into because it's earthly/worldly. I only care what God said. Why do you care what other men think/believe? Isn't knowing and understanding and caring what God said the only thing that matters regardless of if it's a amillenial or dispensational or Catholic or Protestant belief?

Of course it is, and I believe God said that he was giving the keys (authority) to Peter (pope) and that the gates of hell (false teachings) would not prevail against the Church.

At some point you surely have looked at the fact that there are millions of people and countless groups and churches that all 'only believe what God put in the bible' yet somehow wind up with completely different teachings? Doesn't that strike you in any way? All these people, who believe and say that they are led by the Spirit, coming out with all these different interpretations?

 

[LovedofHim]

Of course it is, and I believe God said that he was giving the keys (authority) to Peter (pope) and that the gates of hell (false teachings) would not prevail against the Church.

At some point you surely have looked at the fact that there are millions of people and countless groups and churches that all 'only believe what God put in the bible' yet somehow wind up with completely different teachings? Doesn't that strike you in any way? All these people, who believe and say that they are led by the Spirit, coming out with all these different interpretations?

That is incorrect. God is not the author of confusion. Only those who have the Spirit of God are the church. There is One Truth and it never contradicts the Word of God.

There are people at different levels of understanding in the church.

What has happened is that Christianity was politicized by the devil to cause division. Various groups say they are the "one true religion" but you know that you are in the church when you walk in the power of God and have the gifts of the Spirit because the Holy Spirit lives within you. The things you believe will not contradict the Word of God.

Ask yourself if what you said about Peter is a Catholic teaching or a Word of God teaching.

 

[ivebeenshown]

God is not the author of confusion.

Um... okay. I know that. But what I've said stands true: you, Fred Phelps, David Koresh, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, Anabaptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans and countless others all 'just believe what's in the bible' yet they all disagree.

You may feel that 'sola scriptura' is the way, but it's sure been the root of a lot of confusion since the 16th century.

 

[LovedofHim]

Um... okay. I know that. But what I've said stands true: you, Fred Phelps, David Koresh, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, Anabaptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans and countless others all 'just believe what's in the bible' yet they all disagree.

You may feel that 'sola scriptura' is the way, but it's sure been the root of a lot of confusion since the 16th century.

The term "sola scriptura" is not found in my Bible.

But I certainly trust Jesus when He said the Holy Spirit would teach me and remind me of everything Jesus said and that I wouldn't need anyone else to teach me the deeper things of God.

Jhn 14:26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

1Jo 2:27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

 

[the geech]

Not exactly fair that the OP only offered two options on the poll, what about us Amills?

 

[LovedofHim]

Not exactly fair that the OP only offered two options on the poll, what about us Amills?

Where in scripture does it say there is no millennium?


Revelation 20


1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[LovedofHim]

Come on, people, vote in the poll!

Take a stand for Jesus' words, proven true with other scripture found in Daniel 11 and Revelation or stand up for the cultic beliefs of men that directly oppose the words of our Lord and Savior.

This poll shows how many trust in Jesus' words or the teachings of men...or run and hide...

 

[the geech]

Where in scripture does it say there is no millennium?

The better question is: where does it say there is? Being that Revelation should be interpreted both contextually, not isolated and symbolically, not literally.

But that's your prerogative.

Grace and peace.

 

[ivebeenshown]

The better question is: where does it say there is? Being that Revelation should be interpreted both contextually, not isolated and symbolically, not literally.

But that's your prerogative.

Grace and peace.

+1.

 

[LovedofHim]

The better question is: where does it say there is? Being that Revelation should be interpreted both contextually, not isolated and symbolically, not literally.

But that's your prerogative.

Grace and peace.

+1.

I'll start a thread that proves there is a millennium and you two can defend your position with scripture, if you can.

 

[ivebeenshown]

The term "sola scriptura" is not found in my Bible.

But I certainly trust Jesus when He said the Holy Spirit would teach me and remind me of everything Jesus said and that I wouldn't need anyone else to teach me the deeper things of God.

Jhn 14:26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

1Jo 2:27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Well, I guess all those other people who are totally convinced that their interpretation is spirit-led yet are not spot-on with you are wrong and deceived by the devil. Is that it now?

Edit: your poll... well, let's just say that you have chosen to cite 1 John yet that is the very epistle which states that antichrists had already come, if I am not mistaken.

 

[LovedofHim]

Well, I guess all those other people who are totally convinced that their interpretation is spirit-led yet are not spot-on with you are wrong and deceived by the devil. Is that it now?

Jesus said what he said regarding the order of events REPEATEDLY and I for one, choose to believe HIM over the teachings of men, especially those who disagree with Jesus' own words.

Edit: your poll... well, let's just say that you have chosen to cite 1 John yet that is the very epistle which states that antichrists had already come, if I am not mistaken.

Sure many antichrists have come and gone. That is not the point. Jesus was very specific.

He said these arise after the great tribulation is cut short:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

It is confirmed that the antichrist arises after the great tribulation which began with the desolation of Israel is cut short by Daniel 11, Revelation 12 and 13, and Revelation 5-9.

I choose to believe Jesus. Where do you stand?

 

[Watchman_2]

Come on, people, vote in the poll!

Can't vote -- both positions are unbiblical.

 

[LovedofHim]

Can't vote -- both positions are unbiblical.

Which part of Christ's position is unbiblical? He said it, not me.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Jesus said what he said regarding the order of events REPEATEDLY and I for one, choose to believe HIM over the teachings of men, especially those who disagree with Jesus' own words.

You fail to take into consideration that his words might be interpreted in different ways. We both believe Jesus, certainly, but we each have a different opinion regarding the grammar of the passage in question -- and if you haven't noticed, I am not the only one who disagrees with you here... not to mention that I have seen nobody agree with your interpretation.

Sure many antichrists have come and gone. That is not the point. Jesus was very specific.

He said these arise after the great tribulation is cut short:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

It is confirmed that the antichrist arises after the great tribulation which began with the desolation of Israel is cut short by Daniel 11, Revelation 12 and 13, and Revelation 5-9.

I choose to believe Jesus. Where do you stand?

Nice drama, Jen. I believe Jesus. I don't agree with your interpretation of his words.

 

[Watchman_2]

Which part of Christ's position is unbiblical? He said it, not me..

Christ's position is always Biblical -- your position is rarely, if ever, Biblical.

 

[LovedofHim]

Which part of Christ's position is unbiblical? He said it, not me.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

I find it odd that people are willing to believe Jesus' words when he says in Matt 24 that the great tribulation comes after the abomination of desolation but those same people refuse to believe Jesus' words when he says in that same passage that the false christs, false prophets, and false miracles arise after the great tribulation is cut short.

Who is the authority here? Who has determined the order of events and told us what it is? Should we only believe PART of what Jesus said, as His followers, or ALL of it?

I realize this is earth shattering information for many of you but trust Him, trust what He says. Everything makes complete sense when you do.

 

[LovedofHim]

Christ's position is always Biblical -- your position is rarely, if ever, Biblical.

And what is Christ's position in this passage (and others) -


5When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before

Tell me, according to Jesus Himself, what comes after the abomination of desolation?

Tell me, according to Jesus Himself, what arises after the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect?

You can read. So YOU TELL ME what Jesus said the order of events is there in Matt 24.

 

[ivebeenshown]

I find it odd that people are willing to believe Jesus' words when he says in Matt 24 that the great tribulation comes after the abomination of desolation but those same people refuse to believe Jesus' words when he says in that same passage that the false christs, false prophets, and false miracles arise after the great tribulation is cut short.

Who is the authority here? Who has determined the order of events and told us what it is? Should we only believe PART of what Jesus said, as His followers, or ALL of it?

I realize this is earth shattering information for many of you but trust Him, trust what He says. Everything makes complete sense when you do.

Hey... Jesus did not use the word 'after', which would be specific beyond a doubt. He used the word 'then', which can be either 'after' or 'at that time'.

 

[LovedofHim]

Hey... Jesus did not use the word 'after', which would be specific beyond a doubt. He used the word 'then', which can be either 'after' or 'at that time'.

So tell me, according to Jesus own words, what arises "when/after/at that time" when the great tribulation is cut short for the sake of the elect?

5When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before