Another major prosperity church in trouble

[hopeinGod]

I do not see the Lord as being without judgment. He does judge, and as punishment, He will often destroy or tear down in order to build up. This took place in the life of the prodigal son who spent his inheritance in riotous living and ended up living among the swine. Luckily for him, he had a wealthy father as a means of escape. Not all of us do. Some of us were born into poverty, and to get out of it, we had to work hard, save, and invest. If only we'd had a father waiting in the wings to throw a party and slay a fatted calf.

It is a mistake to tell people they can earn a living, even wealth, merely by giving their pittance to a ministry. The giving of the poor has made unscrupulous leaders extermely wealthy.

So, as you write, God never supports poverty. I disagree. He uses anything He must to gain the attention of a spiritually deaf believer, even poverty. He will, and has, torn down and destroyed in order to build that which is more in line with His will, but if that person who was judged for his/her misdeeds refuses to turn to the Lord, the builidng may never take place.

David asked the Lord to neither give him poverty or riches, knowing full well it is within His will to do one or the other for all men. It all takes place in line with His aim in the lives of believers.

 

[TehMill]

I do not see the Lord as being without judgment. He does judge, and as punishment, He will often destroy or tear down in order to build up. This took place in the life of the prodigal son who spent his inheritance in riotous living and ended up living among the swine. Luckily for him, he had a wealthy father as a means of escape. Not all of us do. Some of us were born into poverty, and to get out of it, we had to work hard, save, and invest. If only we'd had a father waiting in the wings to throw a party and slay a fatted calf.

It is a mistake to tell people they can earn a living, even wealth, merely by giving their pittance to a ministry. The giving of the poor has made unscrupulous leaders extermely wealthy.

So, as you write, God never supports poverty. I disagree. He uses anything He must to gain the attention of a spiritually deaf believer, even poverty. He will, and has, torn down and destroyed in order to build that which is more in line with His will, but if that person who was judged for his/her misdeeds refuses to turn to the Lord, the builidng may never take place.

David asked the Lord to neither give him poverty or riches, knowing full well it is within His will to do one or the other for all men. It all takes place in line with His aim in the lives of believers.

*
Yes but you say the opposite to the Lord, does it worry you?
You say work and save and invest in the world.

He says GIVE, invest in the the kingdom of God...in the Spirit, essentially if you are giving to a ministry that is winning souls [and discernment is needed] you are investing in people's spiritual welfare, sowing in the Spirit, not the flesh.

And you turn the whole thing upside down now by saying that God uses poverty to, punish...control.

But it is glaringly obvious then if you are poor [this is what YOU are saying not me] it is because you are a sinner and God is punishing you. You will be outraged but that is the implication.

The father [who is God] in the parable did not make his wayward son poor, he made him rich, it was waywardness that brought poverty but when he returned to the father he was rich again.

Yes I say that sin is the cause of poverty, that is Adam's sin, not personal sin. But we are brought back to God....You say we don't have a rich father?

But we DO we DO we have an extraordinarily rich Father in heaven, so it all comes down to faith, what you believe about this Father. You read His word, He says to give...the rest is up to Him. If you don't fail He won't fail.

But what we give is an investment...I like you do not believe in sending off 100 bucks and expecting a fortune back in the morning mail, that is scam. But invest steadily and steadily you can expect God to increase your supply. That is His promise.

 

[thunderbyrd]

I doesn't listen to prosperity preachers, and I listen judiciously to testimonies.

I said you will never take these words out of the bible

Give and it shall be given you again, good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over will MEN give into your bosom.

The WHOLE bible agrees with that statement whether the OT the gospels or the epistles...no where does God say that poverty is a blessing. He said "you always have the poor with you to do good to them" He didn't say we will always be poor. What good are you going to do to the poor?

Poverty as your testimony of your early life kind of hints is a curse not a blessing. Surely you can see in India that poverty is a curse.

John says "Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest be in health and prosper....

...even as thy soul prospereth"

I believe that is significant, "seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness..."

I agree there is a snare in prosperity...there is a snare in ANY blessing. What then shall we refuse God's blessing because there is a snare? if we do so the problem will still be in us but yet not having an opportunity to manifest itself. Isn't it better to first deal with whatever it is within us that would cause prosperity to be a snare?


...even as thy soul prospereth.

Prosperity is a magnification of YOU, your ministry, your expression [as also your testimony of your early life shows] prosperity did not harm YOU did it? it blessed you.

Somebody once said to me "if God healed somebody through me it would make me proud" I said well should you not deal with your problem of pride? It is there but it has no opportunity to manifest itself.

Yes any blessing has a danger, and perhaps prosperity is th greatest danger....man first sinned in the Garden of abundance....But God loves to bless, to give, to prosper our way. Let us aim to make our way pleasing before Him rather than spurn His blessing.

i also give credence to testimonies. i would enjoy reading your testimony of how your giving to God has led you out of poverty into prosperity. i need some encouragement right about now.

 

[abysmul]

1 Timothy 6:10

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

 

[TehMill]

Some people love their money too much to give....it is the root of much poverty on the mission fields.

 

[TehMill]

i also give credence to testimonies. i would enjoy reading your testimony of how your giving to God has led you out of poverty into prosperity. i need some encouragement right about now.

*
There is no surer promise in the bible...whatsoever a man sow that also shall he reap....into the Spirit everlasting life....into the flesh corruption.

The promise is certain.

But this I say He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly and he that soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully

Every man according as as he purposeth in his heart so let him give, not grudgingly or of neccesity for God loveth a cheerful giver.

And God is able to make ALL grace abound toward you that you having all sufficiency in all things may abound to every good work.

Remember whose word this is.

The slipper Pauls will point out to you that Paul was poor, well Paul was like his Master who became poor to make others rich...the other apostles were not poor. Poverty is a Catholic teaching...they got rich but they taught the people that they must be poor.

Poverty is a curse, it started when they were chucked out of the garden of abundance. If you believe poor is holy go to India and see if they are holy...they are certainly poor.

The slipper Pauls recline in their armchairs and recount Paul's beatings and nakedness etc...but Paul said to the Corinthians Ye have become rich, ye have become like kings and would that ye did reign for then we [he and Barny] would share the reign with you. Paul allowed himself to go without [although he could have demanded] so that he could always say...I preached to you freely.

My advice to those suffering poverty, and there are many. Make a decision before the Lord to honour Him with your substance....don't fall for the scams like giving huge offerings and hoping to get blest. But decide how much you will give each week, give it FIRST to the Lord. Be steady, like a farmer. Plant each week, plant wisely, and you will find steadily God will give you the increase. This is not quick fix but lifestyle.

Yes I've proved it.