Another interesting definition. Death.

[Offline4Better.]

A definition of life is important to define abiogenesis.

Another fascinating definition is death.

Clinical Death occurs when circulation and breathing stop.

Within a minute brain function stops.
And for all those that presume consciousness is a process of the brain.
Consciousness must stop by definition.

Despite modern medicine most who have a cardiac arrest die, unless they are close enough to a team who have defibrillators and know how to use them. They are brought back to life before irreparable damage is done.

There is a period in which to restore circulation for life to resume normally. Irreversible damage is done within 3-5 minutes. And very few can be brought back after that.Whilst attempts to keep some circulation going manually help extend this period, it is very low pressure and not enough to restore consciousness. Consciousness only returns after defibrillation resumes normal blood pumping. Return to measurable brain function can take time. Periods of unconsciousness can often follow ressusitation from cardiac arrest.


So so called "Near death experiences" are in clinical terms "actual death experiences"
Which is why those who can describe exact details of places , conversations and details of procedures and remote places they cannot have known or guessed are so interesting for the debate on "what is consciousness".

In this unconscious state one patient "howard" witnessed the unusual details of the ressusitation , procedures, which he cannot have known , described from a view point of the ceiling, the clothing worn by staff, and then as he floated up he described accurately a room above in the hospital off limits to anyone but staff being trained, with manikins around a central set of works tations used to train ressucitation procedures. He cannot have guessed it.

Clinically he was dead. He was clinically unconscious, whilst his experience show he was actually conscious. And his consciousness was of a remote place from his body.


The first cells to suffer irreversible damage are in the brain. It needs a lot of energy just to survive. Turns out that cells can enter a "pilot light" state. Not operating but lower energy. That is what happens during the down time, but reversibility only lasts for minutes in the brain.

Turns out The period in which can be extended by lowering body temperature dramatically, so some surgery (like cranial aneurisms) are done with the body temperature lowered dramatically. Blood is drained from the head. And just to make doubly sure, clickers are put in the patients ears with ECG monitoring any response.

One of the most famous NDE of Pam Reynolds - occured in this state.
She described with taped eyes the tools used to open her skull which she described as an electric toothbrush. turns out that is exactly what it looked like. She can never have seen it previously. Also the conversation by the vascula surgeon they could not find a sufficient blood vessel in one leg so wen to the other. She was surprised that they even needed blood vessels (actually to drain her blood, to work on the aneurism in her head)
There is not a chance in hell that her brain was active to record the conscious experience, and even if she had, she would not have been able to see what she described accurately.

This is one of hundreds of veridical NDE. That is conscious experience whose details can be validated by reference to the medics. Whilst clinically dead.


As I have said on other threads. Increasingly many neurologists and AE doctors no longer believe the hypothesis that consciousness is a product of brain chemistry. It doesnt fit the evidence. The mind controls the brain, even the deveopment of it. The brain is not the mind.

Read
Bellg "near death in ICU" as a reasonable introduction to the types of experience she has witnessed in AE
The "self does not die" Rivas - for analysis of a lot of veridical (ie verified ) experiences.
Van Lommel "conscioussness beyond life "for technical details of the science of brain process, neurologists views on consciousness, cardiac arrest and lateral studies on NDE

These are not quacks. They are real ICU , Cardiologist and neuro doctors speaking about NDE. They concluded that the hyptothesis that consciousness is a brain process is false. The evidence does not support it. . Van lommel has published his studies in the lancet several times.

Let's use an analogy, cos analogies are fun. Say one has a car (ex. A Ford Pinto). When the engine goes bad from a lack of oil, that could be an NDE, as the car can barely start. It is possible to exit an NDE with proper medical care via God's guidance and a good doctor. That is analogous to putting new oil in the engine, or repairing the motor components.

The Ford Pinto was also prone to rust and fires. An example of clinical death would mean the Ford Pinto is damaged beyond repair, as in an engine fire (death at a young age from an unforeseen circumstance/accident) or rust damage that is irreparable (old age).

However, those who repent to Jesus and are Christians will go to heaven. For the Ford Pinto analogy, the car is recycled, and made into a new car, or the steel could be recycled into a stainless steel cross necklace, or a steel can. The cross necklace would last nearly indefinitely and is stainless, just like we will be in heaven for eternity and free of sin.

 

[The Barbarian]

Death occurs when the telomeres stop working.

That's one way. The cell can live on without that, but it can no longer reproduce or produce necessary materials for metabolism. So eventually, yes. There are other ways cells can die, however.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's one way. The cell can live on without that, but it can no longer reproduce or produce necessary materials for metabolism. So eventually, yes. There are other ways cells can die, however.

Yup.

 

[RileyG]

Essentially, when all our cells get worn out and can no longer function, we die. We are basically a large pile of cells.

 

[RileyG]

Yup.

It is my basic understanding, as time goes on, telomeres get shorter and shorter which cause aging and disease. Once they had enough, we physically die.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is my basic understanding, as time goes on, telomeres get shorter and shorter which cause aging and disease. Once they had enough, we physically die.

That's my understanding as well.

 

[The Barbarian]

That's my understanding as well.

When the telomeres are gone, replication of DNA is no longer accurate. So the cell can't reproduce or maintain itself.

 

[Pommer]

When the telomeres are gone, replication of DNA is no longer accurate. So the cell can't reproduce or maintain itself.

Is this an explanation of cancers?

 

[The Barbarian]

Is this an explanation of cancers?

No. The problem with cancers is uncontrolled growth. The cells in your body have what is called "contact inhibition." They proliferate when there is space, but when they crowd together,they stop growing. Loss of this inhibition is one way cancers become deadly.

Like subway commuters on a crowded train, cells generally prefer not to be packed in too tightly. In fact, they have set up mechanisms to avoid this, a phenomenon called "contact inhibition." A hallmark of cancer cells is that they lack this contact inhibition, and instead become pushy, facilitating their spread.

Scientific understanding of the mechanism underlying this cell behavior change has had many gaps. A new paper from the lab of Joseph Kissil, PhD, professor of Molecular Medicine at Scripps Research in Florida, provides important new insights.

Writing in Cancer Research, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research, Kissil and colleagues offer new details about how the "stop-growth" signal unfurls during cell-to-cell contact, and how disruption of that "stop-growth" signal can promote cancer.

Insight Into Cancer Cells’ Lack of Contact Inhibition

A new paper provides important new insights into the mechanism underlying contact inhibition.

www.technologynetworks.com

This eventually disrupts important body functions. Not the whole story, of course, but a very important part of it.

 

[Pommer]

No. The problem with cancers is uncontrolled growth. The cells in your body have what is called "contact inhibition." They proliferate when there is space, but when they crowd together,they stop growing. Loss of this inhibition is one way cancers become deadly.

Like subway commuters on a crowded train, cells generally prefer not to be packed in too tightly. In fact, they have set up mechanisms to avoid this, a phenomenon called "contact inhibition." A hallmark of cancer cells is that they lack this contact inhibition, and instead become pushy, facilitating their spread.

Scientific understanding of the mechanism underlying this cell behavior change has had many gaps. A new paper from the lab of Joseph Kissil, PhD, professor of Molecular Medicine at Scripps Research in Florida, provides important new insights.

Writing in Cancer Research, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research, Kissil and colleagues offer new details about how the "stop-growth" signal unfurls during cell-to-cell contact, and how disruption of that "stop-growth" signal can promote cancer.

Insight Into Cancer Cells’ Lack of Contact Inhibition

A new paper provides important new insights into the mechanism underlying contact inhibition.

www.technologynetworks.com

This eventually disrupts important body functions. Not the whole story, of course, but a very important part of it.

They become “selfish-genes”?
That never works out well!

I have family who got in on the ground floor at Illumina, they’ve sold bunches of DNA sequencers to cancer labs, which are trying to find “soft spots” in cancer (and only cancer) cells to figure out how to design an mRNA “virus” to “infect” cancer cells.
Word is that they’re getting closer and some trials have begun.I think?

 

[RileyG]

Is this an explanation of cancers?

It's my understanding that telomeres and cancers are related, yes. Unless someone can correct me.

 

[RileyG]

No. The problem with cancers is uncontrolled growth. The cells in your body have what is called "contact inhibition." They proliferate when there is space, but when they crowd together,they stop growing. Loss of this inhibition is one way cancers become deadly.

Like subway commuters on a crowded train, cells generally prefer not to be packed in too tightly. In fact, they have set up mechanisms to avoid this, a phenomenon called "contact inhibition." A hallmark of cancer cells is that they lack this contact inhibition, and instead become pushy, facilitating their spread.

Scientific understanding of the mechanism underlying this cell behavior change has had many gaps. A new paper from the lab of Joseph Kissil, PhD, professor of Molecular Medicine at Scripps Research in Florida, provides important new insights.

Writing in Cancer Research, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research, Kissil and colleagues offer new details about how the "stop-growth" signal unfurls during cell-to-cell contact, and how disruption of that "stop-growth" signal can promote cancer.

Insight Into Cancer Cells’ Lack of Contact Inhibition

A new paper provides important new insights into the mechanism underlying contact inhibition.

www.technologynetworks.com

This eventually disrupts important body functions. Not the whole story, of course, but a very important part of it.

Thanks for the info! Helped clear things up.

 

[The Barbarian]

It's my understanding that telomeres and cancers are related, yes. Unless someone can correct me.

Well, most cancerous cells produce telomerase, that repairs telomeres, making the cells essentially immortal. It's another way that they grow out of control. Most of our cells only split for a limited number of divisions. Each division reduces the length of telomeres and eventually, they run out and the cells die. Telomerase prevents that.