R
rpeg
Guest
To my understanding, they both fall under the definition of "martyr" unless you have your own definition of "martyr"?
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To my understanding, they both fall under the definition of "martyr" unless you have your own definition of "martyr"?
True, as in a home owner shooting an invading robber and a drug trafficker shooting a police officer are both killers. You are much too smart to not know the original intent of the question
How about we rephrase the original question to why someone would die under torture and imprisonment trying to spread peace joy and the news of salvation, and even forgive their own tormentors?
Or am I also making an unwarranted assertion and have already made up my mind, thus invalidating the need for a response that will most likely have no affect?
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R
rpeg
Guest
True, as in a home owner shooting an invading robber and a drug trafficker shooting a police officer are both killers. You are much too smart to not know the original intent of the question
How about we rephrase the original question to why someone would die under torture and imprisonment trying to spread peace joy and the news of salvation, and even forgive their own tormentors?
Or am I also making an unwarranted assertion and have already made up my mind, thus invalidating the need for a response that will most likely have no affect?
I don't like your tone of voice, so I'll wait for someone more polite to ask.
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Sorry, I was trying to be engaging.
And by the way, you did completely shoot down someones question deeming it not worthy of a response. You think that tone was just fine?
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R
rpeg
Guest
True, as in a home owner shooting an invading robber and a drug trafficker shooting a police officer are both killers. You are much too smart to not know the original intent of the question
How about we rephrase the original question to why someone would die under torture and imprisonment trying to spread peace joy and the news of salvation, and even forgive their own tormentors?
Or am I also making an unwarranted assertion and have already made up my mind, thus invalidating the need for a response that will most likely have no affect?
Actually I'll answer but I'll offer a short answer because it's a big question. Short answer: There are many possible reasons why. If you're suggesting that you don't see how people would suffer "torture" or "imprisonment" for something that is a "lie" you have to understand that in the minds of people, a lie could be "true". When we believe something is true in spite of evidence it can offer us emotional comfort, support, vigilance, bravery and fanaticism. So anyone is capable of believing a lie. That's how lies work. We are also capable of ignoring a lie if the lie itself offers a lot to us emotionally. Then when you tie together culture, family, worldview and society, lies can be the pillars of societies.
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Still torture, death, and the forgiveness of ones captors... I'm not saying that is proof or anything, but it MUST have been a strong conviction. Thanks for the response, rpeg.
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R
rpeg
Guest
You should consider that there are currently people in the world who are tortured, beaten and killed for their beliefs. Some of which may be beliefs you do not regard as "true".
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Do you have any problems in writing the details of that moment etc. please?like how you asked him?why-when you asked him
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rpeg
Guest
It may be multiple moments such as when I was a 8/9 year old child and probably as a young adult but i do not recall the age at all. Maybe between 15 - 20.
How did I asked "Jesus"? I don't recall much of that either. I certainly asked for signs. As a kid I was frightened at how there was suffering in the world especially with other kids who were starving and dying. I also was concerned at the idea that other people would go to hell for being born a certain way (born within another religion or born in a region where they wouldn't know about Christianity). As I was older I probably just wanted more evidence of a divine power's presence. I didn't understand how my capacity to critically analyze religion and "god" meant I was doomed to hell. I more or less believe I was born this way (with the ability to think and live in reality). There's not much else or much else I can recall.
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yes, but they believed it to death, and its spreading was fast.So why would it be like that?Every person who started believing, had a faith till death, sell everything he has (a lot did that).why would they do that?why would they change all their habits and fully stop enjoying life but rather seek pain and torture and death in serving the lord?Wouldnt it be because of the miracles or because of some sort of proof?
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You should try it from your heart, truly seek him from your heart,pray for 10s min in a calm environment, and have a promise in mind that if you get signs, you would really change your way of life etc. and try to serve Jesus&God as much as possible.
Suffering is caused by the devil.And it's easy for people to avoid hell, also, hell isnt a lake of fire only,there are much lighter torments, but the lake of fire is preserved mostly for the devil and his demons and maybe those who really are truly criminals.(it's not for me to judge tho.) . But God is Just, and Jesus through all his great and good works mentioned in the bible, said that only God is good,although Jesus did the best any human can imagine for us,and he still says that God is better). Jesus is always with him and knows him better, but the gap of intelligence between us and God is so great that we may understand his works completely the opposite. (this is off topic but I felt that it would be good to help you with what I really believe as I had exactly the same questions and many more)
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rpeg
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Again, people die for their beliefs all the time. Their capacity to suffer does not correspond to the validity of the claim. If you judged reality on this basis, I can assure you lots of things you wouldn't believe in would be "true" because someone suffered for it. Islam is true because people blow themselves up for it.
The 911 hijackers were educated, middle class theists. They died for a belief. Does this make their belief "true"? Of course it doesn't.
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joey_downunder
big sister
It is good to read that you have taken the time to think properly about your position before you started to contribute here.
I see you have sometimes thought about religion overall from your childhood. Have there been any recent events that stand out or people that contributed to your interest in finding out more about Christianity through actual online discussions with christians? It's one thing to read basic christian teachings/opinions, quite another for an atheist to risk typing to the people who many atheists label as biased, uninformed or generally close-minded to alternative worldviews!
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rpeg
Guest
Then the question becomes, why pray to this supposed god? Why not another one such as Vishnu?
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rpeg
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Your comment is very sarcastic. I'm not sure I understand why. You asserted that no one would ever die for a lie. I have told you that people die all the time for their beliefs. You should either be prepared to call their beliefs "true" or be realize that people do die for lies.
I have no understanding of what "hell" would be like. I often here it's hot. I have no knowledge other than hearsay from people.
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Hmm, I have to do a better job of writing it looks like. I originally wrote how no one should be persecuted for their beliefs, how it was very sad. Then I got distracted and had to write it all over again. My bad.
That being said. I asked the hell question because you mentioned hell was one of the things you did not like about Christianity. What was it about hell?
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R
rpeg
Guest
It wasn't the idea of a "hell" that bothered me as a kid. It was the decision making involved that doomed some people to hell out of no fault of their own.
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Well, if God really is true love as Christians love to say, who's to say he won't lend out a hand to those who are apart from him in hell?
How about another angle. If God's purpose is to get as many people to be with him in heaven as possible, what if the concept of hell and sending Jesus was, is, and will be the most effective way?
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