ANNOUNCEMENT: New Report System Information

Amoranemix said:

It is strange that Lindon Tinuviel doesn’t know where the rule is mentioned and yet doesn’t demand proof that it is indeed a rule.

How can we know whether the proper procedures have been followed ?

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Which rule are you referring to?

Chrisbot pmed me to let me know that I was reported and given a link to the report thread. But all I got when I hit the link was..

Stormy, you do not have permission to access this page.

A day later a mod closed my thread and said if I had any question to respond to the pm.. I did .. its been two days and still no response. I just pmed her again.

Stormy said:

Chrisbot pmed me to let me know that I was reported and given a link to the report thread. But all I got when I hit the link was..

Stormy, you do not have permission to access this page.

A day later a mod closed my thread and said if I had any question to respond to the pm.. I did .. its been two days and still no response. I just pmed her again.

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This is troubling. We've been repeatedly told by mnphysicist that breaking this or that rule will reult in an infraction, except perhaps in the case of a first offense. Yet if someone can gain no information as to what decision was made, the reasoning behind it, or how one stands in the process, then there is no chance to learn from the first offense. That person remains no less vulnerable to an infraction than previously.

I have to ask, is the policy disseminating pocess on this board meant to keep the membership well informed or not? I can imagine reasons why it might not be.

It seems to me that keeping the membership less informed than ever before is being accomplished, whether or not that is intentional. Rules and sub-rules and interpretations of rules, and even infractionable non-rules (see 'words that', re cursing) are scattered here and there. Stickied Announced rules have been changed, yet the changed rule remains unstickied, as this particular thread evidences.

People complain staff do not answer PMs. People complain of posts removed without notification. People complain reports are not being acted on at all.

I made a (rare: my second in a year) report myself yesterday, regarding a link that could be very damaging to CF's reputation. Except for a Chrisbot response, nothing's been done.

All we hear in response is how busy staff are - but if so, what exactly are they busy doing, as they don't appear to be spending much time responding to members, privately or publicly. The few staff who do respond do so in limited fashion:

1. "I'm working really really hard and I'm a good person and you are all so mean to us."

2. "Just do as you're told and all will be well, staff know best how to look after your interests, you don't need to know anything else."

or the very rare Radio Free Moscow signal...

3. "I agree with what the members are saying but can only work from within and I can't say anything else right now."

Can staff not understand that appearances are everything where secrecy is the norm?

Attention all planets of the solar federation!
Attention, all planets of the solar federation!

We have ASSUMED CONTROL.
WE HAVE ASSUMED CONTROL.
WE HAVE ASSUMED CONTROL ....

The final secret of the Illuminati:

you were a member all along. you just never knew it.

arborvita said:

I can PM you the information that you are requesting.

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Bump?

Glass*Soul said:

This is troubling. We've been repeatedly told by mnphysicist that breaking this or that rule will reult in an infraction, except perhaps in the case of a first offense. Yet if someone can gain no information as to what decision was made, the reasoning behind it, or how one stands in the process, then there is no chance to learn from the first offense. That person remains no less vulnerable to an infraction than previously.

I have to ask, is the policy disseminating pocess on this board meant to keep the membership well informed or not? I can imagine reasons why it might not be.

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Calm down, something went wrong in the coding, just chile, and let the techs get on it, if you seriously understand all the coding being put in this, you'd know it takes time and tweaking, please don't point fingers at Ron, he is only 1 person.

Redneck-Melly said:

Calm down, something went wrong in the coding, just chile, and let the techs get on it, if you seriously understand all the coding being put in this, you'd know it takes time and tweaking, please don't point fingers at Ron, he is only 1 person.

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This has little or nothing to do with coding. This is a policy and implementation issue.

And Ron, brother... if you're really the only coder, then I heartily apologize for everything I've mumbled about you under my breath....

Lindon Tinuviel said:

This has little or nothing to do with coding. This is a policy and implementation issue.

And Ron, brother... if you're really the only coder, then I heartily apologize for everything I've mumbled about you under my breath....

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I don't think Ron is the tech guy, but Ron has alot on his plate, and if the members could understand that there is thousands of members, and only 3 head admins, that have access to all this, then maybe you can see what they are putting up with.

Yes it has alot to do with the coding, the codes have to be right fo rthe reports to work right. Ron, Lee, and Constance are doing the best they can, they also have a real life other then cf as well, they have jobs, and they come here and do this as well. Give them a break.

I understand their position, probably better than most here. I will cut them all the slack I can, but there is a point where it stops. That point has long since been passed.

Redneck-Melly said:

I don't think Ron is the tech guy, but Ron has alot on his plate, and if the members could understand that there is thousands of members, and only 3 head admins, that have access to all this, then maybe you can see what they are putting up with.

Yes it has alot to do with the coding, the codes have to be right fo rthe reports to work right. Ron, Lee, and Constance are doing the best they can, they also have a real life other then cf as well, they have jobs, and they come here and do this as well. Give them a break.

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I have to say..... I completely and totally understand that people have jobs, families, real life.

But Lee really brought this on himself. The site didn't used to demand this kind of attention from just two or three people. It does now because Lee has trashcanned the site, the rules, any semblance of perception that anyone gives a flip what the members want. As a result, people are shouting out, and there are just two sets of ears available to listen (not three, because Lee's ears are clearly plugged).

So I really think what is needed here is more pressure on those few ears that Lee has made available to us, not less. I feel horribly for Ron, who I like a great deal. I don't know Constance, but I feel for her too. It is really unfortunate that they are the fall guys for Lee. If they feel the pressure from the members, though, maybe something will change around here. As it stands right now, they are the only ones Lee is listening to - if even them.

And I say all of that with the fullest respect and admiration for what Ron and Constance do for the site, seriously. They've gotten a raw deal here.

Glass*Soul said:

This is troubling. We've been repeatedly told by mnphysicist that breaking this or that rule will reult in an infraction, except perhaps in the case of a first offense. Yet if someone can gain no information as to what decision was made, the reasoning behind it, or how one stands in the process, then there is no chance to learn from the first offense. That person remains no less vulnerable to an infraction than previously.

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I agree, and we need a way in which to do this. The first step is getting the reported member access to the report thread, so they can interact with staff. That helps one member, but doesn't help the membership as a whole. We do need a way to deseminate the finer points of rule application so all can benefit. How to do so with the constraints we are under is tricky, but it is something we are looking at.

I have to ask, is the policy disseminating pocess on this board meant to keep the membership well informed or not? I can imagine reasons why it might not be.

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We need a way to do so, if we don't members are operating in the dark, and thats going to cause no small amount of problems, if not now, in 6 months it certainly will. Things build over time... no one needs those problems.

Bombila said:

It seems to me that keeping the membership less informed than ever before is being accomplished, whether or not that is intentional. Rules and sub-rules and interpretations of rules, and even infractionable non-rules (see 'words that', re cursing) are scattered here and there. Stickied Announced rules have been changed, yet the changed rule remains unstickied, as this particular thread evidences.

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Our policy folks are on other projects at the moment, this information will be published in such a way that its easy to reference. Same with the removal of dated or change information. Hopefully this will be cleaned up by the end of the year.

People complain staff do not answer PMs. People complain of posts removed without notification. People complain reports are not being acted on at all.

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Guilty as charged as far as PM's go. I do not get to all of them, as there is not enough time in a day. It is something we are looking into as well.

I made a (rare: my second in a year) report myself yesterday, regarding a link that could be very damaging to CF's reputation. Except for a Chrisbot response, nothing's been done.

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Send the admin of the area a PM, and if you don't get a response in 3 days, send one to me, with the word Urgent in the title.

All we hear in response is how busy staff are - but if so, what exactly are they busy doing, as they don't appear to be spending much time responding to members, privately or publicly. The few staff who do respond do so in limited fashion:

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I think its a matter of rapid change at all levels. Staff are having difficulty keeping up. We should be out here more.

Can staff not understand that appearances are everything where secrecy is the norm?

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This is a good point, and one I very much agree with. How to handle it will take some thought.

Lindon Tinuviel said:

This has little or nothing to do with coding. This is a policy and implementation issue.

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The coding part is a secondary aspect, but an integral one, when it comes to some policy issues. Its difficult from a scheduling point of view. If we wait to announce until the coding is done, folks get blind sided. If we announce before hand, and something breaks, which happened on private reports, then we raise expectations, only to dash them. This is an ongoing issue with almost every intensely resource constrained software project, where the same coders are supporting old code, concurrently with rolling out new features.

And Ron, brother... if you're really the only coder, then I heartily apologize for everything I've mumbled about you under my breath....

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I'm an assembly language guy, and my php knowledge is limited, so I don't code on CF (although it may be possible that the electronics in the server are benefiting from some of my code, although its been a while since I did my last fab tool design work)

We do have a main coder guy, and he is amazing, but there is only so much time in a day, and keeping the site up has to come ahead of the other issues. For reference, there are still some dangling issues relating to the domain change, there is also the issue with the SS ads code breaking causing ads to be shown where there ought not to be any, plus we have some internal database issues. These need to come ahead of the report coding effort. You can go back to mumbling now

Ron said:

I'm an assembly language guy

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There ain't many of us left.


So, straight up--how much more secrecy and hidden-in-the-dark crap are we going to have to put up with? Further, how much do you think we're willing to put up with before those "things that build up over time" incidents occur?

If I can access my own reports in certain sections, WHY can't I access them in others?

This is ridiculous! No one is answering me.

ok lets make this easy - how does the outcome of a reported post affect you personally here when it isnt your post?

Angel4Truth said:

ok lets make this easy - how does the outcome of a reported post affect you personally here when it isnt your post?

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If I was offended enough to report a post, I am going to want to know the disposition of it. Many, many times a reported post will have no action taken on it. If I am not allowed to even know the outcome, then I am going to see a post I was offended by and reported sit untouched with no idea why. That affects me personally.

you arent getting the report closed notices when something has been handled?

snoochface said:

If I was offended enough to report a post, I am going to want to know the disposition of it. Many, many times a reported post will have no action taken on it. If I am not allowed to even know the outcome, then I am going to see a post I was offended by and reported sit untouched with no idea why. That affects me personally.

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Here, here!