Annihilationism

[Andrewn]

So while Jesus’ threats of hell likely would have been understood as temporary for most people, it’s far from clear whether people would have made any assumption about the minority. Live options include everyone gets out of hell, those who don’t are destroyed, and some kind of continuing punishment. As you know, my reading of his focus on Gods forgiveness makes the third option unlikely, nor do I think a continuing Gehenna is consistent with Paul.

How do you understand punishment _after_ the resurrection, after Gehenna is gone, as in:

Joh 5:28-29 “[A]ll that are in the grave shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[hedrick]

How do you understand punishment _after_ the resurrection, after Gehenna is gone, as in:

Joh 5:28-29 “[A]ll that are in the grave shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation.”

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

I don't know. It seems fairly clear that some punishment occurs before the resurrection, as in Lazarus and the Rich Man. (Hades is generally understood as between death and the general resurrection.) I haven't found a clear statement of how Hades, Gehenna and the resurrection were related in the time of Jesus, and there were enough differences in opinion that it may not even be possible to come up with a single description. Jesus himself, though talking about judgement often enough, didn't clarify things. So it may not be possible to answer your question, even though you obviously have an answer that you're convinced is the only one.

In general the concept of judgement seems to imply that you're sentenced at that point. That would imply that people go to Gehenna then, and if appropriate, join everyone else later. 1 Cor 15, however, seems to see the resurrection as the end. A few entities are destroyed, and then Christ ends up all in all. He talks about testing with fire in 1 Cor 3:12, but doesn't connect that with the scenario in 1 Cor 15. (However it is generally understood to be part of the judgment.)

 

[hedrick]

One problem is that it doesn't seem likely that God exists in the same kind of linear time that we do. So trying to come up with specific timing may not even make sense. Jesus' descriptions of judgement could well be symbolic of something that happens at the resurrection and judgement, but without needing a literal period of punishment. I think that’s most likely.

 

[Andrewn]

So it may not be possible to answer your question, even though you obviously have an answer that you're convinced is the only one.

No, not really.

One problem is that it doesn't seem likely that God exists in the same kind of linear time that we do. So trying to come up with specific timing may not even make sense. Jesus' descriptions of judgement could well be symbolic of something that happens at the resurrection and judgement, but without needing a literal period of punishment. I think that’s most likely.

This reminds me of the theory of "Simultaneous Resurrection:" that the resurrection is atemporally simultaneous with death.

 

[Der Alte]

One problem is that it doesn't seem likely that God exists in the same kind of linear time that we do. So trying to come up with specific timing may not even make sense. Jesus' descriptions of judgement could well be symbolic of something that happens at the resurrection and judgement, but without needing a literal period of punishment. I think that’s most likely.

I have a different conclusion. When a person dies what they experience is something like what a person experiences when they undergo surgery. For example in '09 I was scheduled for a simple 45 minute laparoscopic surgery to correct an umbilical hernia. I closed my eyes and to me it seemed like I immediately opened them but it was 5 hours later. To me it was instantaneous, to my wife in the waiting room it was a long 5 hours.
Depends on the point of view.

 

[Rapture Bound]

Christian theologians, academicians, and especially organizations that specialize in "cult watching" consider annihilationism to be one of the marks of a church or religious movement that is classified as a cult.

That doesn't mean that mind control, etc. is a feature (that's a different kind of cult), but that the theology--even if Christ is claimed by such churches--is beyond or outside of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. All of these three Christian divisions, despite serious differences of belief on some matters, are in agreement on certain basics.

The reason for the cult designation is that annihilationism means a revision of the nature of Man. Any denial of the nature of God or of Man is a denial of a Christian essential.

WHY is annihilationism a denial of the nature of Man? Because Man was created in the image and likeness of God according to Genesis, and God has no beginning or end. To say that the wicked will be annihilated is to deny the nature of the human soul.

Albion replied, "WHY is annihilationism a denial of the nature of Man? Because Man was created in the image and likeness of God according to Genesis, and God has no beginning or end."

Although God has no beginning or end, man definitely has a beginning, and therefore may also conditionally experience an ending. This is the reasoning of CI or conditional immortality, and it makes much sense to me. I cannot see any denial of the nature of man here.

 

[Albion]

Albion replied, "WHY is annihilationism a denial of the nature of Man? Because Man was created in the image and likeness of God according to Genesis, and God has no beginning or end."

Although God has no beginning or end, man definitely has a beginning, and therefore may also conditionally experience an ending.

Not necessarily.

Yes, he has a beginning...because he was created by God. That's a standard belief of the Christian religion. However, the Bible also teaches about eternal life.

This is the reasoning of CI or conditional immortality, and it makes much sense to me.

Well then, that is a personal preference.