Annihilationism

9Rock9

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Annihilationism is the belief that rather than going to place of eternal torment, the wicked will be destroyed entirely, both in body and spirit. It is commonly promoted by the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and related denominations.

Most contemporary Christians believe that the wicked will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?

Personally, I am kinda agnostic on the issue. I lean towards the traditional view of hell being a literal place of torment, largely just to be on the safe side, but I do see some compelling arguments for annihilationism.
 

Abaxvahl

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What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?

I considered becoming one before but ultimately I both found it to not be Biblical and to fail on two main fronts: (1) man by sin can not bring himself into non-existence as it is not in their power to destroy like that, (2) due to God's love being creative and His love being what called man into being and His love being eternal, God will never "walk back" on His decision to create something which is also loving it, so God will not bring anything He has ever made to non-existence, even when it utterly rejects Him (like the demons).

Due to this I am not an annihilationist and reject the position. I hold that the soul is immortal.
 
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DavidPT

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Due to this I am not an annihilationist and reject the position. I hold that the soul is immortal.

What about the body? Matthew 10:28 indicates the following---but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Per your position doesn't this mean that the body has to be immortal as well?
 
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SarahsKnight

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What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?


As a conditionalist (I believe in the conditional immortality of the soul; that one will only be raised to be immortal and again die if he/she believes in Jesus Christ, and I reject the inherent immortality of the soul, as the Bible simply gives no concrete words indicating as such, and yet we have Ezekiel 18:20 right there in plain English telling us that the soul is subject to death - it would make no sense in any context to use this kind of wording if the soul in reality is inherently immortal and can't actually die, which is what eternal torment proponents expect us to believe) Christian, yes, I believe it has far more Biblical proof in plain wording than the teaching or eternal torment does.

There are plenty of fellow annihilationists (as the OP refers to them, although I prefer the term conditionalist as it gets more to the point that we do not believe men were created inherently immortal) who I have seen be far more persistent in arguing for the pro-annihilationist viewpoint than I am willing to be after having exhausted myself mentally and emotionally doing so at CF my first two or three years here, so I will let them go more into detail if they are willing to when they see this thread. Thus, I will leave my only foremost Scriptural argument (forget trying to do logical or emotional arguments anymore) here for you to look over if you wish to pursue the subject, 9Rock, on why I believe conditional immortality (annihilationism) is correct, or at least has way more Biblical proof than inherent immortality (eternal torment):

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


I just don't know why, if eternal torment is true, that Jesus would ever use a term like "destroy" in reference to the human soul if in reality He means to actually do much worse to the souls of unbelievers in hell (i.e. eternally torture them, mentally and/or physically). I really don't think it gets much plainer than this to point to annihilation/non-existence/literal 2nd death in Scripture, and away from the traditional teaching of immortal souls living forever in hell just like those in God's eternal kingdom (albeit in torment instead of bliss). Especially when Matthew 10:28 is far, far from the only verse or passage in Scripture than uses obvious terms like destroy, destruction, perish, burn up, etc. when referring to the fate of unbelievers and/or the wicked in some way. There's just no rational way I can glean eternal conscious suffering out of such terms. This is also in conjunction with the fact that the only time Scripture uses words very close to "eternal torment" is in Revelation 20, where it says that Satan will be "tormented forever and ever" when he is thrown into the lake of fire along with the beast and the false prophet. ... Notice humans or human souls are not mentioned at that point - only Satan, the beast, and the false prophet - which would have been the perfect time to do so if eternal torment were true, not to mention that of all books in the bible to take at face value, why Revelation, the one known for symbolism, metaphors, and apocalyptic imagery? Even if you could make an argument for taking the words of Revelation at 100% literal face value, this only strengthens the case for annihilationism and against eternal torment in my opinion, as when Revelation does get around to mentioning humans later on as they are going to the lake of fire, it is referred to as their second death. Nope, not "spiritual death", eternal torment proponents, ... just death. There's no good reason for me to take that as meaning that humans live forever - the exact opposite of death - in the lake of fire. None.


Oh, there's plenty of other verses we have constantly tossed back and forth for proving annihilation or ECT over the years at CF, but like I said above, I've been around the block too many times on that already and it is exhausting, so I'll let fellow conditionalists take that from here if they wish to debate or explain their side in this thread.

If by chance you want to look into the subject further and see my input specifically, @9Rock9, just do a search on here for all posts by SarahsKnight with the terms "conditional immortality" or "annihilationism" in them, and I'm sure you'll see one or two hundred posts arguing for conditional immortality/annihilationism in several different ways. ^_^
 
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Abaxvahl

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What about the body? Matthew 10:28 indicates the following---but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Per your position doesn't this mean that the body has to be immortal as well?

Depends on what precisely you mean. The Resurrected body (which all will receive, the glorified and the damned) can not cease to exist and is immortal, and the matter from which our bodies are now made while it will break down after severance with the soul (which is death in the primary sense) it also does not cease to exist.

This passage refers to the eternal death though which is not a cessation of existence but in the soul a deprivation of living of God and in the body misery and pain. This is the final state of the damned, and it is rightly called destruction.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Annihilationism is the belief that rather than going to place of eternal torment, the wicked will be destroyed entirely, both in body and spirit. It is commonly promoted by the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and related denominations.

Most contemporary Christians believe that the wicked will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?

Personally, I am kinda agnostic on the issue. I lean towards the traditional view of hell being a literal place of torment, largely just to be on the safe side, but I do see some compelling arguments for annihilationism.
I have my own take on this. I won't go too deeply, but I believe that man is eternal and that he will not be annihilated. If he was, then everything to do with the judgement of unbelievers is pointless. Yet God is careful to point out that there will be a day of reckoning, that people will give an account of their lives to God. It's hard to imagine anything more terrifying. I've had a taste of that fear.

I believe that the torment will be the knowledge that the person could have accepted Christ and refused. Exactly what the Lake of fire is, I don't know. I do know that our God is a consuming fire. Fire is always associated with God's judgement. That's why I cringe when Christians call down the fire of God. They do not realise what they are saying. SDA does not accept that the soul and spirit are separate. The Bible clearly states that they are not one and the same. So even if the soul is annihilated, man still has his spirit. There is nowhere that states the spirit of man will be destroyed.
 
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Albion

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Annihilationism is the belief that rather than going to place of eternal torment, the wicked will be destroyed entirely, both in body and spirit. It is commonly promoted by the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and related denominations.

Most contemporary Christians believe that the wicked will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?

Christian theologians, academicians, and especially organizations that specialize in "cult watching" consider annihilationism to be one of the marks of a church or religious movement that is classified as a cult.

That doesn't mean that mind control, etc. is a feature (that's a different kind of cult), but that the theology--even if Christ is claimed by such churches--is beyond or outside of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. All of these three Christian divisions, despite serious differences of belief on some matters, are in agreement on certain basics.

The reason for the cult designation is that annihilationism means a revision of the nature of Man. Any denial of the nature of God or of Man is a denial of a Christian essential.

WHY is annihilationism a denial of the nature of Man? Because Man was created in the image and likeness of God according to Genesis, and God has no beginning or end. To say that the wicked will be annihilated is to deny the nature of the human soul.
 
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Albion

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What about the body? Matthew 10:28 indicates the following---but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Per your position doesn't this mean that the body has to be immortal as well?
The passage in question doesn't say that God will or might destroy both body and soul in hell, just that he is all-powerful and capable of doing such. The point is that God is not some sort of celestial pal who doesn't really mind if we do whatever we choose, but that he is the Almighty!
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Christian theologians, academicians, and especially organizations that specialize in "cult watching" consider annihilationism to be one of the marks of a church or religious movement that is classified as a cult.

That doesn't mean that mind control, etc. is a feature (that's a different kind of cult), but that the theology--even if Christ is claimed by such churches--is beyond or outside of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. All of these three Christian divisions, despite serious differences of belief on some matters, are in agreement on certain basics.

The reason for the cult designation is that annihilationism means a revision of the nature of Man. Any denial of the nature of God or of Man is a denial of a Christian essential.

WHY is annihilationism a denial of the nature of Man? Because Man was created in the image and likeness of God according to Genesis, and God has no beginning or end. To say that the wicked will be annihilated is to deny the nature of the human soul.

If believing all of the biblical scripture is considered a cult you are free to believe as you wish. Many did not believe Jesus was the Messiah either.

We have a God of love and eternal torment is not a God of love.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Christian theologians, academicians, and especially organizations that specialize in "cult watching" consider annihilationism to be one of the marks of a church or religious movement that is classified as a cult.

That doesn't mean that mind control, etc. is a feature (that's a different kind of cult), but that the theology--even if Christ is claimed by such churches--is beyond or outside of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. All of these three Christian divisions, despite serious differences of belief on some matters, are in agreement on certain basics.

The reason for the cult designation is that annihilationism means a revision of the nature of Man. Any denial of the nature of God or of Man is a denial of a Christian essential.

WHY is annihilationism a denial of the nature of Man? Because Man was created in the image and likeness of God according to Genesis, and God has no beginning or end. To say that the wicked will be annihilated is to deny the nature of the human soul.
Agreed and scripture talks about the reality of both heaven and hell being places that will be inhabited after death in the judgment. So is a person is being honest and consistent then if they reject hell and punishment they should also reject heaven and bliss.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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And I didn't say that it does merit such a classification.

You do bring it up a lot despite this comment claiming you don't feel it merits such a classification. Not sure what message you are trying to say, but I think you are saying it even if you admit its not true.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Annihilationism is the belief that rather than going to place of eternal torment, the wicked will be destroyed entirely, both in body and spirit. It is commonly promoted by the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and related denominations.

Most contemporary Christians believe that the wicked will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?

Personally, I am kinda agnostic on the issue. I lean towards the traditional view of hell being a literal place of torment, largely just to be on the safe side, but I do see some compelling arguments for annihilationism.
The "second death" is what will be suffered by those who reject the Gospel. Those who believe will have "eternal life".
It is said that "all will know Him". It is also said that all will be resurrected in order to know Him, all in one place to be judged. Some will suffer condemnation and some will be in Paradise. Condemnation by our God would be worse than a lake of fire IMO. Seperation, in darkness and knowing exactly why the light is not there.
Be blessed.
 
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Abaxvahl

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We have a God of love and eternal torment is not a God of love.

Why so? How are you defining "love" here? To me God's love can be fully equated to every single thing that He does, so if people are damned in eternity that is love and mercy. When He judged the world at the Flood that was love, when He ordered the destruction of the Canaanites that too was love, just as Him dying on the Cross is love also. So the question is not really "is X thing God did loving" because the answer by default is "yes and infinitely more than you can imagine," but whether or not God in fact does this thing.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Why so? How are you defining "love" here? To me God's love can be fully equated to every single thing that He does, so if people are damned in eternity that is love and mercy. When He judged the world at the Flood that was love, when He ordered the destruction of the Canaanites that too was love, just as Him dying on the Cross is love also. So the question is not really "is X thing God did loving" because the answer by default is "yes and infinitely more than you can imagine," but whether or not God in fact does this thing.

Seeing your loved ones tortured forever is not love nor is it biblical.

“I saw a new heaven and a new earth. ... And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away” (Revelation 21:1, 4).

Matthew 25:41 speaks of “everlasting fire” for the wicked. Does it go out?
Yes. According to the Bible, it does. We must let the Bible explain itself. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire (Jude 7), and that fire turned these ancient cities “into ashes” as a warning to “those who afterward would live ungodly” (2 Peter 2:6). These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up. Likewise, everlasting fire will go out after it has turned the wicked to ashes (Malachi 4:3). The effect of the fire is everlasting, but not the burning itself.

Doesn’t Matthew 25:46 say the wicked will receive “everlasting punishment”?
Notice the word is punishment, not punishing. Punishing would be continuous, while punishment is one act. The punishment of the wicked is death, and this death is everlasting.

Here is a good website regarding the truth about hell.

Is Hell Real? | Hell Truth
 
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Freth

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I would defer to scripture and what Jesus said:

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish1, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy1 both soul and body in hell.
Footnotes:
1: Strong's G622 perish/destroy; apollymi
  1. to destroy
    1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
    2. render useless
    3. to kill
    4. to declare that one must be put to death
    5. metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
    6. to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed
  2. to destroy
    1. to lose
 
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Abaxvahl

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Seeing your loved ones tortured forever is not love nor is it biblical.

“I saw a new heaven and a new earth. ... And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away” (Revelation 21:1, 4).

Matthew 25:41 speaks of “everlasting fire” for the wicked. Does it go out?
Yes. According to the Bible, it does. We must let the Bible explain itself. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire (Jude 7), and that fire turned these ancient cities “into ashes” as a warning to “those who afterward would live ungodly” (2 Peter 2:6). These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up. Likewise, everlasting fire will go out after it has turned the wicked to ashes (Malachi 4:3). The effect of the fire is everlasting, but not the burning itself.

Doesn’t Matthew 25:46 say the wicked will receive “everlasting punishment”?
Notice the word is punishment, not punishing. Punishing would be continuous, while punishment is one act. The punishment of the wicked is death, and this death is everlasting.

Here is a good website regarding the truth about hell.

Is Hell Real? | Hell Truth

I see no reason why it is not love, as for the Scriptural proofs there are many that can be drawn. As for Revelation, amen it describes that, but the damned are not there for it goes on in the same chapter:

"The one who conquers will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowards and unbelievers and detestable persons and murderers and sexually immoral people and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their share is in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

The righteous are in the New Heavens and the New Earth, while the unrighteous are not. Is rejoicing in the justice of God not Biblical? Many examples of this from the Psalms can be drawn up, not the least of which is Psalm 149:

"The saints shall rejoice in glory: they shall be joyful in their beds. The high praise of God shall be in their mouth: and two-edged swords in their hands: To execute vengeance upon the nations, chastisements among the people: To bind their kings with fetters, and their nobles with manacles of iron. To execute upon them the judgment that is written: this glory is to all his saints. Alleluia."

It doesn't sound like they who are righteous as praised here are unloving, for no one can be glorified like this and lack love which is God in them (as proven by St. Paul who speaks of love as necessary but also of the saints judging the world, which is shown by this Psalm).

As for the first Matthew citation I do not see why Jude is not simply speaking of those in Sodom as undergoing a punishment (which would be temporary by nature as they will be Resurrected) of the everlasting fire and Matthew be speaking of the punishment which is everlasting. The word punishment not being continuous is itself compatible with the alternative view, but I'll check out that site.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Annihilationism is the belief that rather than going to place of eternal torment, the wicked will be destroyed entirely, both in body and spirit. It is commonly promoted by the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and related denominations.

Most contemporary Christians believe that the wicked will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?

Personally, I am kinda agnostic on the issue. I lean towards the traditional view of hell being a literal place of torment, largely just to be on the safe side, but I do see some compelling arguments for annihilationism.

At the current time, I align with an Annihilationist viewpoint due to the way in which I 'read' the Bible via an application of Philosophical Hermeneutics and Biblical Exegesis.

Still, if it turns out that Hades and Human Beings are actually Eternal in nature, then it is what it is. In fact, for me, the issue of whether or not Hell is eternal has never been a primary one; it's more like secondary, or maybe even tertiary.

Can I back up my point of view? Yes, I think I can, but that takes time away from other things I'd rather do. :cool:
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I see no reason why it is not love, as for the Scriptural proofs there are many that can be drawn. As for Revelation, amen it describes that, but the damned are not there for it goes on in the same chapter:

"The one who conquers will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowards and unbelievers and detestable persons and murderers and sexually immoral people and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their share is in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

The righteous are in the New Heavens and the New Earth, while the unrighteous are not. Is rejoicing in the justice of God not Biblical? Many examples of this from the Psalms can be drawn up, not the least of which is Psalm 149:

"The saints shall rejoice in glory: they shall be joyful in their beds. The high praise of God shall be in their mouth: and two-edged swords in their hands: To execute vengeance upon the nations, chastisements among the people: To bind their kings with fetters, and their nobles with manacles of iron. To execute upon them the judgment that is written: this glory is to all his saints. Alleluia."

.

We probably will all have loved ones who will die in the second death. The teaching that people will be tortured and burning forever and ever is not biblical as shown on post #15.

Believing one way or another will not matter in our Salvation, but we have a fair and just Savior. Knowing people are burning forever when we are promised:

And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away” (Revelation 21:1, 4)

We will have to agree to disagree
 
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BobRyan

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Annihilationism is the belief that rather than going to place of eternal torment, the wicked will be destroyed entirely, both in body and spirit. It is commonly promoted by the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and related denominations.

Most contemporary Christians believe that the wicked will go to hell and suffer for eternity.

What are your thoughts on annihilationism? Is it biblical?

Personally, I am kinda agnostic on the issue. I lean towards the traditional view of hell being a literal place of torment, largely just to be on the safe side, but I do see some compelling arguments for annihilationism.

Matt 10:28
28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Eph 3:
20 Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, 21 to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

Ezek 28 regarding Satan
15 You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God
.
And I have destroyed you, you covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Your heart was haughty because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I threw you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 By the multitude of your wrongdoings,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,

And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

Ezek 18:4 "the soul the sins - it shall die"

Can I back up my point of view? Yes, I think I can, but that takes time away from other things I'd rather do. :cool:

you might find this post interesting.
 
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