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You do not think God is a God of Justice? Then what hope do we have if we cannot get Justice with God? "Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you". Psalm 89:14Personal "revelation" cannot contradict scripture.
I said nothing negative about God. Do you understand what the words "Personal 'revelation' cannot contradict scripture." mean? How can you possibly twist that to mean I said or even implied that God is not a God of justice. Unlike some others I read the entire Bible.You do not think God is a God of Justice? Then what hope do we have if we cannot get Justice with God? "Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you". Psalm 89:14
You do not think God is a God of Justice? Then what hope do we have if we cannot get Justice with God? "Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you". Psalm 89:14
God impressed upon me at least 15 times that He is absolute and precise Justice.You are the one saying God is not Just.
"I see NOTHING just about a person being tormented for all eternity because God was not pleased with them." Contradicts Matt 25:46Where or what is the contradiction?
Where do the words: "not pleased with them" come from? That has nothing to do with our conversation. God is a God of justice. The UnJust will be punished according to their degree or violation of injustice before God."I see NOTHING just about a person being tormented for all eternity because God was not pleased with them." Contradicts Matt 25:46
I have the Bible , I don't need additional revelations from God.God impressed upon me at least 15 times that He is absolute and precise Justice.
I can repeat that for you as many times as you want.
This is why Jesus went to Calvary.
Your post #401, above, which I quoted..Where do the words: "not pleased with them" come from? That has nothing to do with our conversation. God is a God of justice. The UnJust will be punished according to their degree or violation of injustice before God.
Interesting but not relevant to this thread.The United States has a criminal justice system, which is a set of government agencies and processes designed to enforce the laws of the country, maintain public order, and protect the rights of individuals accused of committing crimes.
Perishing in fire, in the second death, with weeping and gnashing of teeth....and no sleep awaiting, but instead true annihilation and actual non existence and totally being forgotten in all ways....that's not 'rest'. That's intense punishment, that is also eternal.Good, and no. The wicked have no rest, no peace, no eternal sleep.
Perishing in fire, in the second death, with weeping and gnashing of teeth....and no sleep awaiting, but instead true annihilation and actual non existence and totally being forgotten in all ways....that's not 'rest'. That's intense punishment, that is also eternal.
Only an already immortal being, like the fallen angels, could endure that and continue in it, we learn by really listening to Christ:
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 10:28 - New International Version
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.www.biblegateway.com
What God has created He can certainly destroy but I do not know of any vs(s) which say that God has or will destroy any soul in Hell. On the contrary Jesus said certain ones would go away into eternal punishment.Perishing in fire, in the second death, with weeping and gnashing of teeth....and no sleep awaiting, but instead true annihilation and actual non existence and totally being forgotten in all ways....that's not 'rest'. That's intense punishment, that is also eternal.
Only an already immortal being, like the fallen angels, could endure that and continue in it, we learn by really listening to Christ:
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 10:28 - New International Version
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.www.biblegateway.com
Literally look in that very post you responded to in order to see the words from Christ quoted on precisely this very thing.I do not know of any vs(s) which say that God has or will destroy any soul in Hell.
As if death in and of itself is not eternal? The people of Jesus' day did not have to be told that death was eternal, they knew that, they had never seen anyone come back from death, Did you read my quote from Justin Martyr in post #411? "they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment." If it is only death a person receiving "eternal punishment" is not conscious of "eternal punishment."Literally look in that very post you responded to in order to see the words from Christ quoted on precisely this very thing.
Being "destroy"ed and "perish"ing in the "second death" is an eternal punishment.
It's a forever punishment. Irreversible.
This is quite important, so let me pause and recall to us that almost everyone (including the Bible) typically refers to 'death' as being that of this temporary mortal body here on Earth, in this life. (though as we know sometimes the word 'dead' is used by Christ to refer to being spiritually alienated from God, so that the Prodigal Son was 'dead' while he was alienated from his Father, and became "alive again" when he repented and returned to his Father.)As if death in and of itself is not eternal?
Are only these 3 going to be in the lake of fire day and night for ever and ever?
The evidence on the subject given in the scriptures are inconclusive. There are verses that support both sides of the argument."..... but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Romans 12:19
"........their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them". Deuteronomy 32:35
Annihilation seems very peaceful, the total opposite of experiencing wrath. Annihilation is basically resting in eternal peace, a peaceful soothing eternal sleep. Annihilation means the wicked unbelievers wont have to endure any punishment in the afterlife. Annihilation seems like more of a blessing than a curse. Annihilation seems more like Gods grace rather than his wrath. If your trying to convince people that Gods wrath is peaceful eternal sleep, then Gods wrath is a gracious peaceful reward for the wicked. Absolutely no eternal consequences for the wicked unbeliever. Eternal sleep is a gift, not a consequence, not a punishment. No reason to fear Gods wrath. If you don't go to Heaven it wont matter because you wont know what your missing, you wont feel regret, remorse or pain, you wont feel anything. Is that what the Bible really teaches ??
But there are other passages that speak about the death and destruction of the soul. In my opinion the evidence from scripture is inconclusive to base a solid doctrine on.As if death in and of itself is not eternal? The people of Jesus' day did not have to be told that death was eternal, they knew that, they had never seen anyone come back from death, Did you read my quote from Justin Martyr in post #411? "they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment." If it is only death a person receiving "eternal punishment" is not conscious of "eternal punishment."
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [a person] are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Are only these 3 going to be in the lake of fire day and night for ever and ever?
"Other passages that speak about death and destruction" such as?But there are other passages that speak about the death and destruction of the soul. In my opinion the evidence from scripture is inconclusive to base a solid doctrine on.
I agree.That 'death' isn't a final end to anyone, we know. Because God exists.
I know of no scripture which supports this.Therefore after some time, only the immortal fallen angels will still exist in the lake of fire, once all of the humans there have perished and been entirely destroyed, both body and soul.
The beast and false prophet might be demonic possession, though that's uncertain. In any case, they will be added to "the devil and his angels" who also suffer the same fate, as will all who willingly worshipped the beast (it seems this isn't the same level of evil as just ordinary evils, so it obtains a special punishment, though it's not entirely clear that such humans in that category will have immortality as do the devil and his angels, but the humans that worshipped the beast might (or might not) simply suffer longer before being destroyed than other humans doing more ordinary sins without repentance, but nevertheless in either case (eternal torment or perishing in the second death, either way), the smoke of their torment will go up forever, like a permanent sign of the end of evil).I agree.
I know of no scripture which supports this.
Revelation 20:10
(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [who is a person] are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.Does the lake of fire exist so that these only these 3 will be tormented day and night for ever and ever?
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