Annihilation=No Wrath

Der Alte · May 11, 2023

Omniskeptical said:
And what is this supposed to prove? Hell is a place on Earth, and Hades is not.

Pardon the lateness of this reply. Somehow I missed it when posted. Please see my post #328 directly above, and read linked article in the 1906 Jewish encyclopedia. According to Jewish sources before and during the time of Jesus the Jews believed in a place of eternal fiery punishment which they called both sheol and Ge Hinnom which were written in both the 225BC Septuagint and the New Testament as Hades and Gehenna.

Bible Highlighter · May 12, 2023

Der Alte said:
The problem with the conclusions in this post is that the seven churches in Asia, to whom Revelation was addressed, almost assuredly did not have personal copies of the OT which they could pull out and compare with any allusions to in Rev. We are spoiled, I have 6-7 Bibles on my phone which is about as big as a checkbook and I can almost instantly look up any vs. They did not have that luxury unless the speaker specifically stated that a particular OT book said a certain thing they would have understood it on face value.

This does not appear to be so according to Scripture.

”And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 3:15).

Even the Ethiopian eunuch had a copy of Isaiah.

Besides, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Surely God is still speaking to His people by His Word today (Just as He did back then).

Der Alte · May 12, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
This does not appear to be so according to Scripture.
”And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 3:15).
Even the Ethiopian eunuch had a copy of Isaiah.
Besides, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Surely God is still speaking to His people by His Word today (Just as He did back then).

Timothy had a Jewish mother and the Ethiopian eunuch was the treasurer for the queen of Ethiopia

"a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,"

That is only one wealthy person certainly not all or even most of the Christians in the 7 churches. None but the rich could afford to pay a month's wages, or more, for one scroll. Remember the scrolls were hand written by scribes dipping a quill pen in ink for almost every letter. We are spoiled. I have several free Bibles, from E-Sword, on a phone the size of a check book including Greek, Hebrew and Korean. Why Korean you may ask. I serve in a Korean church about 2 weeks ago I read the benediction from Psalms first in English then in Korean.

Bible Highlighter · May 12, 2023

Der Alte said:
Timothy had a Jewish mother and the Ethiopian eunuch was the treasurer for the queen of Ethiopia

"a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,"
That is only one wealthy person certainly not all or even most of the Christians in the 7 churches. None but the rich could afford to pay a month's wages, or more, for one scroll. Remember the scrolls were hand written by scribes dipping a quill pen in ink for almost every letter. We are spoiled. I have several free Bibles, from E-Sword, on a phone the size of a check book including Greek, Hebrew and Korean. Why Korean you may ask. I serve in a Korean church about 2 weeks ago I read the benediction from Psalms first in English then in Korean.

The thing is that you did not live during the time of the early church to truly know what believers or churches had any portion of Scriptures. We simply do not know but by the indications of Scripture, we can see that various individuals did have Scripture to some capacity. Jesus even said to His disciples to buy a sword. While He intended them to misunderstand to fulfill prophecy (to be numbered with the transgressors), Jesus truly meant the spiritual sword (the Scriptures). Jesus rebuked Peter in numerous ways for his taking up his physical sword.

Der Alte · May 12, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
The thing is that you did not live during the time of the early church to truly know what believers or churches had any portion of Scriptures. We simply do not know but by the indications of Scripture, we can see that various individuals did have Scripture to some capacity. Jesus even said to His disciples to buy a sword. While He intended them to misunderstand to fulfill prophecy (to be numbered with the transgressors), Jesus truly meant the spiritual sword (the Scriptures). Jesus rebuked Peter in numerous ways for his taking up his physical sword.

I know enough history to understand that what I posted is fairly close to the truth. As I said only the wealthy could afford to pay a month's salary, or more, for a scroll about the size of a roll of paper towels. How long would it take for you or I to copy one of the epistles printing, not cursive, every letter? Now make the task longer by stopping after each letter and dipping the quill pen in ink. Oops, made a mistake take a sharp knife and carefully scrape off the mistake and print it again. And there was a high rate of illiteracy. I just looked it up less than 3% among 1st century Jews.

Der Alte · May 13, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
The thing is that you did not live during the time of the early church to truly know what believers or churches had any portion of Scriptures. We simply do not know but by the indications of Scripture, we can see that various individuals did have Scripture to some capacity. Jesus even said to His disciples to buy a sword. While He intended them to misunderstand to fulfill prophecy (to be numbered with the transgressors), Jesus truly meant the spiritual sword (the Scriptures). Jesus rebuked Peter in numerous ways for his taking up his physical sword.

I'm not pulling this out of thin air I looked it up. I know that only the rich could afford to buy anything written since everything had to be printed letter by letter, cursive did not exist.. One scroll would cost about one month's wages or more. The literacy rate among 1st century Jews was less than 3%. Do you think poor vintners, farmer, shepherds etc, could afford to spend a months wages on scrolls instead of food and clothing?

Bible Highlighter · May 13, 2023

Der Alte said:
I'm not pulling this out of thin air I looked it up. I know that only the rich could afford to buy anything written since everything had to be printed letter by letter, cursive did not exist.. One scroll would cost about one month's wages or more. The literacy rate among 1st century Jews was less than 3%. Do you think poor vintners, farmer, shepherds etc, could afford to spend a months wages on scrolls instead of food and clothing?

My faith first comes from the Bible and history is only subjective or secondary to the Bible. Not everything recorded in man made history always gives us an accurate account of how things were back then. Also, the Christians back then would not sell things like the Scriptures to each other, but they would be nice enough to make copies for the churches out of the kindness of their heart. Today, things are different. But just looking at history from men does not mean you will have a clear picture of how things were. Remember, people can sometimes embellish the truth. Also, history is written by the victors. So I take history with a grain of salt. The Bible is my ultimate and final word of authority. Men can lie. The Bible is God’s Word and so it is more trustworthy and true. So again, the Bible tells me Timothy had the Scriptures since his youth and the Ethiopian Eunuch had Scripture. While we don’t know for 100% certainty, I do tend to believe that a Christian could get gain access to Scripture through the church or large body of believers. Together, God’s people could acquire Scripture. I say this because Jesus said to his disciples to buy a sword. That does not mean they literally would need to buy the Scriptures. It’s a reference to Scripture that says to buy the milk without price. How were the Bereans able to the search the Scriptures if they did not have them or be able to not read them? But you can trust your books or your internet search. It does not mean your right.

BurningBush84 · May 13, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
My faith first comes from the Bible and history is only subjective or secondary to the Bible. Not everything recorded in man made history always gives us an accurate account of how things were back then. Also, the Christians back then would not sell things like the Scriptures to each other, but they would be nice enough to make copies for the churches out of the kindness of their heart. Today, things are different. But just looking at history from men does not mean you will have a clear picture of how things were. Remember, people can sometimes embellish the truth. Also, history is written by the victors. So I take history with a grain of salt. The Bible is my ultimate and final word of authority. Men can lie. The Bible is God’s Word and so it is more trustworthy and true. So again, the Bible tells me Timothy had the Scriptures since his youth and the Ethiopian Eunuch had Scripture. While we don’t know for 100% certainty, I do tend to believe that a Christian could get gain access to Scripture through the church or large body of believers. Together, God’s people could acquire Scripture. I say this because Jesus said to his disciples to buy a sword. That does not mean they literally would need to buy the Scriptures. It’s a reference to Scripture that says to buy the milk without price. How were the Bereans able to the search the Scriptures if they did not have them or be able to not read them? But you can trust your books or your internet search. It does not mean your right.

But you don't believe what scripture says. You don't believe Revelation 14:11. You don't believe Matthew 25:46 or Matthew 18:8. I say I believe Hell is eternal torment/punishment and you say that's not Biblical. Lol.

Bible Highlighter · May 13, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
But you don't believe what scripture says. You don't believe Revelation 14:11. You don't believe Matthew 25:46 or Matthew 18:8. I say I believe Hell is eternal torment/punishment and you say that's not Biblical. Lol.

Do you believe the Law of Moses is forever?
So if you say “no,” then you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• The Israelites and their sons were to keep the Passover “forever” (Exodus 12:24). The Passover is a part of the laws of Moses. But Christians today are not under the Laws of Moses (Romans 6:14) (Acts 13:39) (Acts 15:1-24).

• Exodus 27:21 says Aaron and his sons must keep the lamps burning as a statute (law) forever unto their generations (descendants). Exodus 28:43 says that Aaron and his sons must wear certain pieces of clothing when they enter the Tabernacle. This was to be a statute (law) unto Aaron and his sons forever. The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Exodus 40:15). However, the Aaronic priesthood was temporary, and it was replaced by the priesthood order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:11-19).

Do you believe Habakkuk when he says the mountains are everlasting?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they “were scattered” (Habakkuk 3:6).

Do you believe that God was to dwell in Solomon’s temple forever?
If you say “no,” then you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• God was to dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:12-13, 1 Kings 8:27) until -- the Temple was destroyed (2 Kings 25:8-17).

Do you believe Jonah when he said that the earth and her bars were about him forever?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• Jonah describes how the earth with her bars was about him forever when he was in the fish (Jonah 2:6), until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 1:17).

Do you believe if Onesimus returned back to his master, it would have been forever? Meaning, if Onesimus returned, do you believe he and his master would have both become immortal on the Earth or that they would be stuck in some repeat time loop where Onesimus would keep returning back to his master Philemon every single day for all eternity?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• In Philemon 1:15: Paul mentioned to Philemon how Onesimus may have departed so that Philemon may receive him back forever. Obviously, if this were to have happened, Onesimus would not be an immortal man still living on the Earth with his master (Philemon) today. If Onesimus had returned, he would have returned back to his master forever within the context of their temporary lives on Earth.

In other words, you fail to understand that the word "forever" and its related words comes from the King James Bible, which was written in archaic 1600s English that has influenced Modern Translations today. It's not that the King James Bible is wrong. No, no. Most certainly not. I believe the KJB is the perfect Word of God. But the point here is that if one fails to recognize that there are archaic words in the most influential Bible in the English-speaking world, they are wrongfully enforcing a Modern understanding upon archaic wording. The King James Bible has a long list of archaic words. Get yourself a Defined King James Bible, or get the small little booklet that has a list of the 4,114 archaic words.

Sample page within the Defined King James Bible:
(Archaic words defined at the bottom):

Here is the small little booklet with all the archaic words listed with their definitions:

Anyways, the point here is that there are approximately 4,000 archaic words in the KJB.

For example:

The King James Bible uses the word "conversation” in 1 Peter 3:2.
But it means "behavior" and is updated to mean that in various Modern Translations.

But Modern Translations are not perfect, and so they will not catch everything; Therefore the Modern bibles have not updated everything in the King James Bible, which was the first major English Translation that impacted the English-speaking world and caused many great revivals. But my main point here is that if you were to try and enforce a Modern understanding upon the word "conversation" in 1 Peter 3:2 reading the King James Bible, you would be mistaken.

Der Alte · May 14, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
My faith first comes from the Bible and history is only subjective or secondary to the Bible. Not everything recorded in man made history always gives us an accurate account of how things were back then. Also, the Christians back then would not sell things like the Scriptures to each other, but they would be nice enough to make copies for the churches out of the kindness of their heart. Today, things are different. But just looking at history from men does not mean you will have a clear picture of how things were. Remember, people can sometimes embellish the truth. Also, history is written by the victors. So I take history with a grain of salt. The Bible is my ultimate and final word of authority. Men can lie. The Bible is God’s Word and so it is more trustworthy and true. So again, the Bible tells me Timothy had the Scriptures since his youth and the Ethiopian Eunuch had Scripture. While we don’t know for 100% certainty, I do tend to believe that a Christian could get gain access to Scripture through the church or large body of believers. Together, God’s people could acquire Scripture. I say this because Jesus said to his disciples to buy a sword. That does not mean they literally would need to buy the Scriptures. It’s a reference to Scripture that says to buy the milk without price. How were the Bereans able to the search the Scriptures if they did not have them or be able to not read them? But you can trust your books or your internet search. It does not mean your right.

One rich man with a copy of Isaiah and one son of a jew and one church hardly means all or even most people had access to scripture. Yes, you take history with a grain of salt and apparently make some up to fit your assumptions/presuppositions see red highlight above.

Bible Highlighter · May 14, 2023

Der Alte said:
One rich man with a copy of Isaiah and one son of a jew and one church hardly means all or even most people had access to scripture. Yes, you take history with a grain of salt and apparently make some up to fit your assumptions/presuppositions see red highlight above.

Jesus said heaven earth shall pass away but my words will not pass away.

I believe Jesus.

Der Alte · May 15, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus said heaven earth shall pass away but my words will not pass away.

I believe Jesus.

While that is true it is not relevant to what I have been talking about.

BurningBush84 · May 15, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
Do you believe the Law of Moses is forever?
So if you say “no,” then you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• The Israelites and their sons were to keep the Passover “forever” (Exodus 12:24). The Passover is a part of the laws of Moses. But Christians today are not under the Laws of Moses (Romans 6:14) (Acts 13:39) (Acts 15:1-24).

• Exodus 27:21 says Aaron and his sons must keep the lamps burning as a statute (law) forever unto their generations (descendants). Exodus 28:43 says that Aaron and his sons must wear certain pieces of clothing when they enter the Tabernacle. This was to be a statute (law) unto Aaron and his sons forever. The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Exodus 40:15). However, the Aaronic priesthood was temporary, and it was replaced by the priesthood order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:11-19).

Do you believe Habakkuk when he says the mountains are everlasting?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they “were scattered” (Habakkuk 3:6).

Do you believe that God was to dwell in Solomon’s temple forever?
If you say “no,” then you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• God was to dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:12-13, 1 Kings 8:27) until -- the Temple was destroyed (2 Kings 25:8-17).

Do you believe Jonah when he said that the earth and her bars were about him forever?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• Jonah describes how the earth with her bars was about him forever when he was in the fish (Jonah 2:6), until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 1:17).

Do you believe if Onesimus returned back to his master, it would have been forever? Meaning, if Onesimus returned, do you believe he and his master would have both become immortal on the Earth or that they would be stuck in some repeat time loop where Onesimus would keep returning back to his master Philemon every single day for all eternity?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• In Philemon 1:15: Paul mentioned to Philemon how Onesimus may have departed so that Philemon may receive him back forever. Obviously, if this were to have happened, Onesimus would not be an immortal man still living on the Earth with his master (Philemon) today. If Onesimus had returned, he would have returned back to his master forever within the context of their temporary lives on Earth.

In other words, you fail to understand that the word "forever" and its related words comes from the King James Bible, which was written in archaic 1600s English that has influenced Modern Translations today. It's not that the King James Bible is wrong. No, no. Most certainly not. I believe the KJB is the perfect Word of God. But the point here is that if one fails to recognize that there are archaic words in the most influential Bible in the English-speaking world, they are wrongfully enforcing a Modern understanding upon archaic wording. The King James Bible has a long list of archaic words. Get yourself a Defined King James Bible, or get the small little booklet that has a list of the 4,114 archaic words.

Sample page within the Defined King James Bible:
(Archaic words defined at the bottom):

Here is the small little booklet with all the archaic words listed with their definitions:

Anyways, the point here is that there are approximately 4,000 archaic words in the KJB.

For example:

The King James Bible uses the word "conversation” in 1 Peter 3:2.
But it means "behavior" and is updated to mean that in various Modern Translations.

But Modern Translations are not perfect, and so they will not catch everything; Therefore the Modern bibles have not updated everything in the King James Bible, which was the first major English Translation that impacted the English-speaking world and caused many great revivals. But my main point here is that if you were to try and enforce a Modern understanding upon the word "conversation" in 1 Peter 3:2 reading the King James Bible, you would be mistaken.

If there is no ECT , then that means I have a license to sin. Why should I or anybody fear God ??? Annihilation= Resting In Peace... And RIP means sin all you want,,,,, because what's the worse thing that could happen? A temporary punishment that will never remember????? Satan preaches a license to sin. And Annihilation theology is the same thing. Why fear Resting In Peace???? Lol

BurningBush84 · May 15, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
Do you believe the Law of Moses is forever?
So if you say “no,” then you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• The Israelites and their sons were to keep the Passover “forever” (Exodus 12:24). The Passover is a part of the laws of Moses. But Christians today are not under the Laws of Moses (Romans 6:14) (Acts 13:39) (Acts 15:1-24).

• Exodus 27:21 says Aaron and his sons must keep the lamps burning as a statute (law) forever unto their generations (descendants). Exodus 28:43 says that Aaron and his sons must wear certain pieces of clothing when they enter the Tabernacle. This was to be a statute (law) unto Aaron and his sons forever. The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Exodus 40:15). However, the Aaronic priesthood was temporary, and it was replaced by the priesthood order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:11-19).

Do you believe Habakkuk when he says the mountains are everlasting?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they “were scattered” (Habakkuk 3:6).

Do you believe that God was to dwell in Solomon’s temple forever?
If you say “no,” then you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• God was to dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:12-13, 1 Kings 8:27) until -- the Temple was destroyed (2 Kings 25:8-17).

Do you believe Jonah when he said that the earth and her bars were about him forever?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• Jonah describes how the earth with her bars was about him forever when he was in the fish (Jonah 2:6), until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 1:17).

Do you believe if Onesimus returned back to his master, it would have been forever? Meaning, if Onesimus returned, do you believe he and his master would have both become immortal on the Earth or that they would be stuck in some repeat time loop where Onesimus would keep returning back to his master Philemon every single day for all eternity?
If you say “no,” you don’t believe what Scripture says.

• In Philemon 1:15: Paul mentioned to Philemon how Onesimus may have departed so that Philemon may receive him back forever. Obviously, if this were to have happened, Onesimus would not be an immortal man still living on the Earth with his master (Philemon) today. If Onesimus had returned, he would have returned back to his master forever within the context of their temporary lives on Earth.

In other words, you fail to understand that the word "forever" and its related words comes from the King James Bible, which was written in archaic 1600s English that has influenced Modern Translations today. It's not that the King James Bible is wrong. No, no. Most certainly not. I believe the KJB is the perfect Word of God. But the point here is that if one fails to recognize that there are archaic words in the most influential Bible in the English-speaking world, they are wrongfully enforcing a Modern understanding upon archaic wording. The King James Bible has a long list of archaic words. Get yourself a Defined King James Bible, or get the small little booklet that has a list of the 4,114 archaic words.

Sample page within the Defined King James Bible:
(Archaic words defined at the bottom):

Here is the small little booklet with all the archaic words listed with their definitions:

Anyways, the point here is that there are approximately 4,000 archaic words in the KJB.

For example:

The King James Bible uses the word "conversation” in 1 Peter 3:2.
But it means "behavior" and is updated to mean that in various Modern Translations.

But Modern Translations are not perfect, and so they will not catch everything; Therefore the Modern bibles have not updated everything in the King James Bible, which was the first major English Translation that impacted the English-speaking world and caused many great revivals. But my main point here is that if you were to try and enforce a Modern understanding upon the word "conversation" in 1 Peter 3:2 reading the King James Bible, you would be mistaken.

In regards to Matthew 25:46,,,, did Youngs Literal Translation translate it the best ????
" And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'"

.....

Using your reasoning, there is no eternal life.

What about what Jesus said in Matthew 18:8 ???

Why would Resting In Peace be worse than self mutilation????

Only Satan/Lucifer we could want us to believe their are no eternal consequences for our rebellion against God the Son.

Resting In Peace forever is a blessing, Not a punishment.

Bible Highlighter · May 15, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
In regards to Matthew 25:46,,,, did Youngs Literal Translation translate it the best ????
" And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'"

.....

Using your reasoning, there is no eternal life.

What about what Jesus said in Matthew 18:8 ???

Why would Resting In Peace be worse than self mutilation????

Only Satan/Lucifer we could want us to believe their are no eternal consequences for our rebellion against God the Son.

Resting In Peace forever is a blessing, Not a punishment.

You failed to read the verses I posted to you that refutes your false line of thinking on these verses.

Please go back and carefully address my post please. It will address your misunderstanding.

Bible Highlighter · May 15, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
If there is no ECT , then that means I have a license to sin.

NO it does not!

That would be like a person who believes in a worse punishment than ECT and then tells the ECT Christian that their lesser form of punishment is teaching a license to sin. That’s how silly your argument is. Torment in hell, and punishment in the Lake of Fire that is in accordance to their sin and then their existence erased at some point is motivation enough for me and or any other sane person. I don’t think any person wants to face hell or the Lake fire for even one minute let alone however long God decides it takes to punish them (Which could be lengthy —- but not eternal). Imagine if you would be thrown in jail and you had to pay a heavy 10,000 dollar fine for speeding in your city and cops were out on every corner trying to get them with radar. Would that not be motivation enough to stop many people from speeding? Sure it would. Is extreme torture the rest of their life necessary to deter them from doing that crime? No. So your judgment is flawed.

Besides, I am strongly against the majority of Christianity today who justifies sin.
I am a Trinitarian non-denominational Christian who believes in the Bible alone + the Anointing to Understand It. Yet I believe most Protestants believe in a sin and still be saved type belief. It is one of my top favorite passions to fight against Eternal Security and those believers who justify sin. I am doing so in another thread right now actually.

BurningBush84 said:
Why should I or anybody fear God ??? Annihilation= Resting In Peace... And RIP means sin all you want,,,,, because what's the worse thing that could happen? A temporary punishment that will never remember?????

Again, I think you fail to understand that people do not want to be in horrible pain for 5 mintues let alone for days on end. Imagine if it was months or years. It could be. But you want to employ unfair justice and call it justice when it is not that at all. You believe in overkill. So yeah. When a child does wrong in a family, the parents should go ahead and torture them the rest of their life. That’s fair right?

BurningBush84 said:
Satan preaches a license to sin. And Annihilation theology is the same thing. Why fear Resting In Peace???? Lol

It’s not a laughing matter to joke in the way you do.
There will be a judgment and you will have to answer the Lord why you believe in unfair justice.
Again, if ECT is true, then please explain how it is fair and just using a real world example.

Der Alte · May 16, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
...
Again, if ECT is true, then please explain how it is fair and just using a real world example.

There is no, zero, none requirement in scripture that anything be validated with a "real world" example.

Der Alte · May 16, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
In regards to Matthew 25:46,,,, did Youngs Literal Translation translate it the best ????
" And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'"
.....
Using your reasoning, there is no eternal life.
What about what Jesus said in Matthew 18:8 ???
Why would Resting In Peace be worse than self mutilation????
Only Satan/Lucifer we could want us to believe their are no eternal consequences for our rebellion against God the Son.
Resting In Peace forever is a blessing, Not a punishment.

I am assuming that you do not consider Young's "Literal" Translation [YLT] to be correct. Most folks who rely on YLT do not know that Robert Young was self taught in Hebrew and Greek.
The Greek word "aionios" is an adjective. Any "translation" which includes "age(s)" is false. Age is a noun. If you believe that "aionios" means "eternal" so did Jesus. In ten vss. where Jesus used the word "aionios" He described/defined it as "eternal, everlasting, for ever." Here are 3 of those vss. followed by a list of all ten,

John 10:28

(28) I give them eternal [αιωνιον/aionion] life, and they shall never

[εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα]/ [eis ton aiona][lit. unto eternity] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

In this verse Jesus parallels “aiona” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand.” If “aiona” means “age(s), a finite period,” “age(s) is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’” “Aionios life” by definition means “eternal life.”
John 3:15

(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.

John 3:16

(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.

In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion zoe,” "eternal life" with “should not perish,” twice! Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” means eternal or everlasting life.
Luke 1:33, John 6:58, John 8:51, John 10:28, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 5:24, John 3:36, John 4:14, John 6:27

BurningBush84 · May 16, 2023

Bible Highlighter said:
NO it does not!

That would be like a person who believes in a worse punishment than ECT and then tells the ECT Christian that their lesser form of punishment is teaching a license to sin. That’s how silly your argument is. Torment in hell, and punishment in the Lake of Fire that is in accordance to their sin and then their existence erased at some point is motivation enough for me and or any other sane person. I don’t think any person wants to face hell or the Lake fire for even one minute let alone however long God decides it takes to punish them (Which could be lengthy —- but not eternal). Imagine if you would be thrown in jail and you had to pay a heavy 10,000 dollar fine for speeding in your city and cops were out on every corner trying to get them with radar. Would that not be motivation enough to stop many people from speeding? Sure it would. Is extreme torture the rest of their life necessary to deter them from doing that crime? No. So your judgment is flawed.

Besides, I am strongly against the majority of Christianity today who justifies sin.
I am a Trinitarian non-denominational Christian who believes in the Bible alone + the Anointing to Understand It. Yet I believe most Protestants believe in a sin and still be saved type belief. It is one of my top favorite passions to fight against Eternal Security and those believers who justify sin. I am doing so in another thread right now actually.

Again, I think you fail to understand that people do not want to be in horrible pain for 5 mintues let alone for days on end. Imagine if it was months or years. It could be. But you want to employ unfair justice and call it justice when it is not that at all. You believe in overkill. So yeah. When a child does wrong in a family, the parents should go ahead and torture them the rest of their life. That’s fair right?

It’s not a laughing matter to joke in the way you do.
There will be a judgment and you will have to answer the Lord why you believe in unfair justice.
Again, if ECT is true, then please explain how it is fair and just using a real world example.

You keep saying that ECT is not fair. But God says, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD."As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55

Bible Highlighter · May 16, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
You keep saying that ECT is not fair. But God says, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD."As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55

What is the context of Isaiah 55:8?

Lets read it.

Isaiah 55:7-8
7 “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD”

Is verse 7 talking about ECT?

No. the context (verse 7) is talking about the wicked and how they are to forsake their ways, and the unrighteous man his thoughts. So it’s talking about sinful men and how they are to forsake their thoughts and its not talking about ECT.

Annihilation=No Wrath

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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