Angry Men

[bèlla]

it's in the male dna. it dates back to the caveman. anger produces adrenaline needed to survive. if man were passive, he'd've been extinct long ago.

Now that we’ve passed that point where do you direct it?

 

[Halbhh]

Needed time for what?

I agree. I don’t think anger is healthy for the individual or the people they engage with. Peace is always best.

Well actually that one person needed prayer, but some time passed also. I suppose one could pray for someone sooner even if we don't know them closely and only see them occasionally. But we can't predict when an anger will pass. I tend to wait before I pray, but I've very strongly benefited in the last couple of years from realizing the prayer He gave us to pray in Mathew chapter 6 is for daily prayer. That's made such a big difference for me. So sure, pray sooner I suppose.

 

[bèlla]

Most of the men I've seen this in have been older and struggling to deal with a world that has changed profoundly since they were young. Perhaps there is something about the need to foster resilience and openness to change, in all sorts of ways.

I have seen it in younger and middle-aged men. That could be a factor of our culture to some degree. I think reliance is an important point. Most hold a deep resentment towards change or a sense their best is not enough.

If people are out to be treated as heroes while doing nothing extraordinary, they're out of touch with reality.

This is where the opposition towards women hails from in my opinion. If the world won’t laud his efforts he needs to hear it at home. I’ve met many who long to be heroes or held in awe.

If his character and accomplishments produce that authentic response I’m fine. But the expectation of its dispense is another matter. I don’t support false validation. I think its best to improve than pretend you’re there.

If they expect to be treated as having a valuable contribution to make, despite diversity of gifts, strengths, and personalities in the room, then that's a healthy approach.

I agree.

Devaluing people who aren't Ellen Ripley but have other things to bring to the table is really, in the end, pretty degrading of your fellow human beings.

It devalues both sexes in the long run. There are varying levels of capacity in each. If we valued all contributions we’d have little need to say you matter. Our response would make that clear.

Is women prioritising men's wealth due to evolution or due to socialisation? I'd argue the latter, given that women know very well that our society too often pushes us into economic dependence; if you know you're going to have to rely on someone else for economic security, then of course economic means are going to factor into your choice of that someone.

Unrealistic expectations are at the root of hypergamy statements. A woman who really desires a provider won’t accept a partner who can’t meet that need. And a man who desires a woman who’s physically attractive isn’t going to compromise.

Their perspectives are fixed and non negotiable. The rest are somewhere in the middle. But oftentimes the person targets the wrong prospect and becomes upset when she rejects his suit. He expects her to lower her standard on his behalf.

Most women aren’t seeking a sole provider. That’s true hypergamy and she doesn’t work. That isn’t the reality for most and the charge is baseless.

 

[public hermit]

I did as well.

I am not surprised that we have had a similar experience. But, it does make me wonder why I think of "being a man" in terms of specific character traits. It is difficult to differentiate specifically male character traits and specifically female character traits. I am inclined to say there is no real difference, or that such a difference can't be "carved at the joint." All the characteristics I tend to see as appropriate for me as a man, are also appropriate for a woman.

I think of Daniel Boone's daughter, Jemima. In terms of physical ability, Jemima was her father's girl. He taught her skills any "woodsman" would know. So, abilities that one might think are "manly" were accessible and employable by her, as a woman. Impressive, but not necessarily surprising.

It's some of her character traits that I find interesting. They are some of the same ones I would want for myself. When she was kidnapped by a Shawnee-Cherokee raiding party, she had the presence of mind to leave pieces of her clothing as a trail, knowing her father would pick it up. And, he did. When the rest of the family left Boonesborough and headed back to North Carolina, because they assumed Daniel was dead, she stayed behind to wait for him and he finally showed up. As far as character traits go (strength, endurance, fortitude, calm under pressure, and so on) she had it. She had "pluck" as they might have said. Those are the same traits I would strive for as a man.

What character trait is specific to a man? I can't think of one. Nonetheless, when I think of what it means for me to be a man, character traits are a priority. Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of that.

One of the helpful things I believe feminism has brought to the table is the emphasis on the idea that we are embodied beings. Maybe what makes like characteristics more specific is how those characteristics are embodied. I would think a female embodied experience is going to be different than a male embodied experience (e.g. I have not experienced pregnancy and birth). But, does courage embodied in a male body look different than courage embodied in a female body? I don't know. I tend to think it doesn't. Courage is courage.

 

[Dave-W]

think there are some real deficits in the ways boys are being raised,

You mean like dads beating the tar out of them for every minor slip up?
Being taught to express no emotion at all (with the exception of anger or aggressive jubilance in sporting events)?

 

[Dave-W]

Most of the men I've seen this in have been older and struggling to deal with a world that has changed profoundly since they were young. Perhaps there is something about the need to foster resilience and openness to change, in all sorts of ways.

It is true of everyone (not just men) that the older you get, the harder it is to change.

 

[Dave-W]

Now that we’ve passed that point where do you direct it?

Not sure we have really "passed that point." At any moment a natural disaster or a war could plunge us all back to the stone age.

 

[durangodawood]

Why is being angry a problem?

It can certainly be a useful reaction to carelessness or injustice.

But as an enduring state of mind, its really unhealthy - both for the angry and the people around them.

 

[Daniel C]

Despite what I said earlier about anger being acceptable, it was not in my faith upbringing. It was considered a vile sin. So instead of allowing it to be expressed in a non-violent manner, it gets suppressed. Which means that it builds up and up until it reaches a critical mass and explodes in a most destructive way.

Alternatively, some turn it on themselves which then it becomes depression or self hatred.

And you went to the place I was going with my question.

My (our?) lord and savior became angry: (KJV)

''1And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.
2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he (Jesus) had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.''

So if Jesus never sinned and he became angry,I propose this is not sinful or morally reprehensible. Anger leads on to a fork in the road,temperance or wrath and at that point we can enter into a sinful state if we engage the wrath or walk in the spirit if we exercise self control.

Point being to the OP-having no Biblical basis for condemning anger,what is the justification for this?

 

[mina]

I've not really known many angry men in my lifetime in person (I've come across a few online). I dated someone briefly before I met my husband and he was great and funny online but angry and miserable in real life. He had his reasons, but I was like "nope, bye". Because at that point, I would rather had been alone than with someone that was mad at the world and women for everything or when he had a bad day. One minute he was funny and charming and the next he wasn't. He got mad at me for not wanting to continue to date him and I was called names, made fun of my looks to me and to other people, told me he was my last chance to find anyone b/c of how I look and because I was in my late 20's, yelled at me over the phone (I hung up). It was like I owed him a relationship (to him). We did not live near one another and so it was easy to distance myself and I lost all contact with him. I hope that he is doing better and that he was able to make healthier connections in his life. For me, there were enough men I saw and grew up with around me that weren't angry so I didn't feel like I had to let that be an option for me. I'd rather be single and alone that be with a man that was angry all the time or blamed me for being a woman. He was nice looking with a good job but his issues seemed to stem from his mom being a single mother (even though she did so much for him and gave him a good life) and past relationship hurts /rejections.

 

[Dave-W]

So if Jesus never sinned and he became angry,I propose this is not sinful or morally reprehensible.

that was explained as "righteous indignation," which they said was fundamentally different that the anger of fallen man.

 

[Daniel C]

It can certainly be a useful reaction to carelessness or injustice.

But as an enduring state of mind, its really unhealthy - both for the angry and the people around them.

Challenging your view here-How is enduring anger really unhealthy?

 

[durangodawood]

Challenging your view here-How is enduring anger really unhealthy?

Its a huge cause of stress in ones mind and body, which can lead to the degradation of mental function as well as physical illness. And it produces stress in those around you as well, sometimes leading others to shun you for the sake of their own well being. Its analogous to second hand smoke in that regard.

Thats what I know. And I'm ok leaving it hanging as an unproven assertion. Just want to let you know how I think about it, per your request.

 

[eleos1954]

What are the root causes of male disenfranchisement? How do we help them manage their anger in a healthy way? How have you tackled this within yourself or with others?

Please share your thoughts.

disenfranchisement

1. the state of being deprived of a right or privilege

Am I missing something here? How does the word disenfranchisement relate to all anger issues?

Anger happens because they are deprived of a right or privilege?

 

[Sabertooth]

Now that we’ve passed that point where do you direct it?

I am not sure that I subscribe to the "caveman DNA" argument, but if my anger is piqued by a perceived injustice, I

1. Urgently seek to engineer a solution to it.
2. Failing that, seek cover and maximize damage control.

(My earlier police story is a good example of that.)

 

[bèlla]

All the characteristics I tend to see as appropriate for me as a man, are also appropriate for a woman.

Men and women benefit equally from the presence and practice of virtues. But it is my consensus that masculinity isn’t effeminate and femininity isn’t masculine. The embodiment of each is housed in our divine makeup.

Some expressions are more or less extreme than others. But they would still fall within the parameters of our gender.

So, abilities that one might think are "manly" were accessible and employable by her, as a woman. Impressive, but not necessarily surprising.

Skills are not the same as spirit. I’m taking a woodworking class. Most of the participants are men. They don’t treat me like one of the boys. They’re more akin to brothers. We joke and tease. But they’re the first to step forward for heavy lifting. And I praise their work and encourage their creativity. You see our respective spirits in that example. That’s why we get along.

I can't think of one. Nonetheless, when I think of what it means for me to be a man, character traits are a priority. Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of that.

Men and women may share the same characteristics. But their display may differ. My ability to lead doesn’t negate a man’s. Nor does my strength render his unneeded.

Where we’ve erred is in failing to see how the two work together and serve both. His desire to protect may inspire him to take up arms. That isn’t my natural response unless you cross the threshold. Then all bets are off. ;-)

My way of protecting him would involve prayer and strategy. I can endure immense warfare for long periods. I will take up arms in prayer the way he would in the natural. And together we’re a powerful duo.

 

[bèlla]

Why is being angry a problem?

Have you ever said or done anything while angry that you felt ashamed of or needed to apologize for later on? There’s your answer. ;-)

We’re addressing a continual form of anger that doesn’t go away.

 

[bèlla]

Not sure we have really "passed that point." At any moment a natural disaster or a war could plunge us all back to the stone age.

And we’ll adapt to those conditions. But for the moment we don’t conduct ourselves like cavemen. Most of us. ;-)

 

[public hermit]

Men and women benefit equally from the presence and practice of virtues. But it is my consensus that masculinity isn’t effeminate and femininity isn’t masculine. The embodiment of each is housed in our divine makeup.

Some expressions are more or less extreme than others. But they would still fall within the parameters of our gender.



Skills are not the same as spirit. I’m taking a woodworking class. Most of the participants are men. They don’t treat me like one of the boys. They’re more akin to brothers. We joke and tease. But they’re the first to step forward for heavy lifting. And I praise their work and encourage their creativity. You see our respective spirits in that example. That’s why we get along.



Men and women may share the same characteristics. But their display may differ. My ability to lead doesn’t negate a man’s. Nor does my strength render his unneeded.

Where we’ve erred is in failing to see how the two work together and serve both. His desire to protect may inspire him to take up arms. That isn’t my natural response unless you cross the threshold. Then all bets are off. ;-)

My way of protecting him would involve prayer and strategy. I can endure immense warfare for long periods. I will take up arms in prayer the way he would in the natural. And together we’re a powerful duo.

I value and appreciate your insight. Thank you.

 

[bèlla]

I dated someone briefly before I met my husband and he was great and funny online but angry and miserable in real life.

That isn’t uncommon. Some people are good actors. But their true colors come out eventually.

He had his reasons, but I was like "nope, bye".

Good for you!

Because at that point, I would rather had been alone than with someone that was mad at the world and women for everything or when he had a bad day.

I have no interest in being someone’s punching bag. I used to talk to someone who’d speak firmly to me on occasion. We never dated and it always rubbed me the wrong way. I prefer calm temperaments. They weather a storm much better.

One minute he was funny and charming and the next he wasn't. He got mad at me for not wanting to continue to date him and I was called names, made fun of my looks to me and to other people, told me he was my last chance to find anyone b/c of how I look and because I was in my late 20's, yelled at me over the phone (I hung up). It was like I owed him a relationship (to him).

That was his real character. There was no reason for the disrespect and inconsideration that he exhibited. That was a taste of what would follow if you’d remained with him.

I'd rather be single and alone that be with a man that was angry all the time or blamed me for being a woman.

I agree. I ask specific questions and introduce discussions to gauge a man’s affinity with certain ideologies. If he leans in the wrong direction I’ll step back. Once a person has digested poison it is difficult to remove until they’re willing to face the truth. That requires introspection and many are unwilling to take that step.

I’m glad you found a partner who values you.