Angry Men

[~Zao~]

What is MGTOW?

 

[bèlla]

What is MGTOW?

Men Going Their Own Way

From their site...

M.G.T.O.W - Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: "No".

Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a "man" is. Looking to no one else for social cues. Refusing to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility. And, living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn't.

 

[bèlla]

I don't think he realized I was new since it was a larger church. I think he automatically expected everyone to know him (i.e. celebrity-mentality). Even though he didn't say, "Do you know whom I am?" using words, I got the message from his reaction (LOL).

That’s probably what he meant.

 

[~Zao~]

Men Going Their Own Way

From their site...

M.G.T.O.W - Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: "No".

Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a "man" is. Looking to no one else for social cues. Refusing to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility. And, living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn't.

Aww they stole women’s slogan

 

[Sabertooth]

Engineering one upmanship on gender ability at their job is very much a persons ability to know their identities. I don’t believe that’s a problem of adaption to anyone but each person it has effects upon.

(I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make...)
When I was in engineering brainstorm sessions,

• Eng#1 would throw out a good, basic plan.
• Eng#2 would throw out a new paradigm and everybody would applaud (wishing that they thought of it, first).
• Eng#3 would throw out an improvement triggered by #2's paradigm. (The new paradigm gave everyone a new direction to go for ideas and #2 did not/could not envision all of its possibilities, immediately.)
  
• More paradigms and more ideas from within them, etc.

Well-adjusted engineers that I have worked will concur when an idea is more elegant than their own. It translates to higher efficiency [read: less work].

 

[bèlla]

But that is "our" fault for listening to culture, as it were, and not being to keep up with all of the identity changes that allegedly make a man.

This is equally true for women. You can’t buy society’s rhetoric and complain when you’re reaping the results of that choice.

This is why it is important to pick what *you* believe is a man, and be consistent with that no matter what anyone says.

That’s what I did. When I encountered the version of femininity that exemplified my inner man it became my standard. Everything I did was aligned with its principles (and God’s of course). I didn’t change tunes when the newest fad hit the scene. I remained with the path I’d chosen.

You cannot do "too much" with focus and purpose.

That’s it in the nutshell.

 

[bèlla]

Most people are just fed up with the malarkey. It's like A Clockwork Orange, where everybody's using coercive force to reform you of "sexual deviancy," but behind the curtains your attending Ludovico physician is having adulterous relations with the nurse. You can't say anything, because they hold all the sticks and carrots, but it's obvious to anybody with a brain that it's just somebody else's sexism or ethno-nationalism that you're not allowed to call sexism or ethno-nationalism.

Love that book. I understand. Its very Machiavellian. What’s the end goal they’re after in your opinion?

 

[bèlla]

Speaking as guy with issues with that. Lots of this problem have to do with economics, and social trends, especially things like out sourcing jobs etc.

How do you keep your head and stave off anger?

 

[Kaon]

Would you say they’re primarily from the middle class or would you include others in that statement?

It's social and financial classes. Think of the people who were likely to live comfortable and in middle class environments in the 70s - 80s: those would be the example of people who may have felt they deserved to be not only afloat, but in a boat during this time.

However, I do believe it is a deep psychological fault overall. It depends on how one was nurtured, and one's capacity to recognize right from wrong. There is only one truth; people know what is right and wrong. They choose to behave a certain way based on the sum of what they perceive has kept them alive. That may be racism, religion or intellect and everything in between. But, there is only one truth.

In your opinion, how can this be remedied? Have you taken steps you can share?

I can list many ways that may help the situation, but I don't believe in them. I 100% do not believe anything will help. It doesn't really change the problem with masculinity. The only thing that will change the "problem" of masculinity is a(n other) worldwide "consensus" on masculinity. But, that would be one step from the apocalypse like it always was in history.

How does healthy control look from your perspective? What does it include? And how do you offset the unexpected?

My answer is the Word of God. David's Psalms help, as well as his overall story.

Clearly, this isn't the answer for everyone.

Is there a way to transform tribalism into unity for all men from every background?

No. This is the last cry before social and possible overall collapse. When it restarts, if the idea of a man isn't universal, and "universally enforced", then it will just repeat for another few generations and collapse again.

That is the missing anchor. You can’t sway with every wind of doctrine or social movement.

I think so too.

Your comment reminds me of something I heard Gary Vaynerchuk say. He admonished his listeners about their lack of focus and discipline. He shares his story to encourage them to look beyond the obvious and make intentional steps towards their goals.

He wasn’t the brightest or the most talented. But his consistency paid off in the long run. He often speaks of the long game and the necessity to accept that change and success don’t happen overnight. Hard work is a must as is time.

Interesting...

I may have to check this person out.

 

[ChicanaRose]

Anger can come in overt or covert forms, and they are both unsettling.

However, if you are around someone with covert form of anger frequently and long enough, their "rage" will eventually slip out in the words they use, and sometimes even in the way they drive.

You will also find it in their eyes, when they give you "the look" after you've denied their requests. It's quite disturbing since they were so sweet a moment ago while making the request.

I don't know how to "diffuse" this kind of anger except be as nice as I can in my wording of "No."

21 Ways to “Give Good No” | Greater Good

 

[Pavel Mosko]

How do you keep your head and stave off anger?

Oh that easy, were suppose to do that as Christians!

In general though from an Eastern Christian stand point we don't make a distinction on things like Faith vs. Works etc. that you see in the West. We have something called "theosis" which is important in spirituality etc. I use this video to explain it to those outside of Orthodoxy (and to show my ecumenical spirit).

Anyway unrighteous displays of anger, poison our soul. It technically is a "work of the flesh". Probably the best ways of dealing with this is 1) to approach anger in a more measured way before you are tempted to loose your temper. If you are angry their are proper ways of displaying it that are not unhealthy or improper, like talking to the person why you think something is wrong, or 2) (The Stoic solution) We cannot completely control our external environment etc. so there is a way out if we think point 1) won't or can't work we make the decision to give things up to God etc. and let him manage it. Basically "carry out cross" so to speak.

 

[Kaon]

This is equally true for women. You can buy society’s rhetoric and complain when you’re reaping the results of that choice.



That’s what I did. When I encountered the version of femininity that exemplified my inner man it became my standard. Everything I did was aligned with its principles (and God’s of course). I didn’t change tunes when the newest fad hit the scene. I remained with the path I’d chosen.



That’s it in the nutshell.

Maybe on the surface, we should attack conformity first - recognize that being an individual and different is actually productive.

However, that would demand an entire and fundamental change of our political, economic, and social systems. So, unless you are strong enough to literally be an island, one may find it better to conform in some sort of way - even if it is because of survival reasons.

We were too deep in "it" back before the Word of God showed up; all He did was set the True standard. However, men like David, Moses, Solomon, and even Joshua make the quintessential "man" look relatively simple and pedestrian for deep reasons. I think myths are our ways of deifying regular humans because regular humans pulled off feats we think unbelievable. Both men and women handicap themselves with logic and reason - as "crazy" as that sounds.

 

[bèlla]

Absolutely not. Our identity needs to be grounded and rooted in Christ, not the world, people are reacting to the world in a worldly manner.

Without Christ MGTOW...so do woman. Feminists seem angry all the time as well.

You’ve echoed my thoughts on both.

 

[Kaon]

MGTOW?

 

[ChicanaRose]

This thread is so interesting and addictive (LOL).

 

[Tinker Grey]

MGTOW?

See Post #62.

 

[Kaon]

Men Going Their Own Way

From their site...

M.G.T.O.W - Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: "No".

Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a "man" is. Looking to no one else for social cues. Refusing to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility. And, living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn't.

I get it (the preamble), but isn't this like conforming by nonconformity?

 

[bèlla]

I think Migtow should be understood emphatically. This Canadian Vlogger is really good on this stuff.

I am familiar with her. She is well regarded in the men’s rights movement. I’ve seen her videos shared by many I know.

But as a follower of Christ and someone sensitive to the plights of both sexes, I don’t believe she’s a positive representation of femininity. Let alone a godly one. And I wouldn’t eat from her tree. No matter how many points she makes.

Her verbiage isn’t consistent with the femininity I recognize. She’s been heavily influenced by the company she keeps and had no qualms denouncing one group of men in an effort to defend the others.

That is unacceptable.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Love that book. I understand. Its very Machiavellian. What’s the end goal they’re after in your opinion?

Again, depends on whom we're talking about.

The actual extremists who actually apply and/or incite violence? On either side? (or perhaps any side, since I think there are several axes that people fall onto) I think there's a certain level of individual who stops having rational goals in mind. They just rage for the sake of raging.

The so-called alt-Right? (actually a misnomer, because nationalism is aboriginally a product of the Left) They don't want ethnic cleansing. They want social nationalism and unfiltered sociobiology. They want the American state to supply welfare to the poor, but they also want the state to serve American interests rather than foreign ones. And they want to be able to talk about the uncomfortable facts about human evolution and not be punished for it (one sentiment I do share), such as the fact that women are, on average, more likely to prioritize the wealth of a suitor as a factor in sexual attraction, or the fact that men, on average the world 'round, tend to select for an hourglass figure.

The classical Liberals and libertarians (and even some pure neoliberals)? They want more social and economic freedom. The social justice culture doesn't offer that. Women earn less because they don't take STEM jobs and work at them instead of taking maternity leave? Well, the solution must be to forcefully educate women to want those jobs and set quotas for how many get those jobs! The social and economic freedom of women to choose whatever life they want, the social and economic freedom of employers to make hiring choices that they want and serve their interests is irrelevant. What the self-appointed social reformers want is.

The Far Left / social-justice Left? It's all ideology. Now, I will go on record as saying, many of their intelligentsia genuinely practice what they preach, and I actually admire those more than certain Republicans in Name Only. I made some good friends in my linguistics program. But they are not what you'd call analytic thinkers. They believe what they do with all the blind faith of a backwoods-country Baptist. What the real ones want is exactly what they say: Complete and total social equality of every single human being. They're just deluded into thinking that robbing from the rich to give to the poor will accomplish it rather than just irritating the wounds further. The ones who just buy into this stuff because they see personal advantage in it? They aren't self-aware enough to know what they want. They're rank opportunists who won't even admit they're opportunists. (I love me some opportunism, so long as you're up front about what both parties get from the deal, but so many SJW types aren't.) They are slaves to their passions.

If you're just asking about the book A Clockwork Orange, all the government characters want is political advantage. No end goal. Just the next victory in their crawl to the top.

 

[bèlla]

I get it (the preamble), but isn't this like conforming by nonconformity?

More like the fork in the road for a downward spiral.

Option A: MGTOW
Option B: PUA/Red Pill
Option C: Male Supremacy