Angry Men

[ChicanaRose]

Most people don’t expect a stranger to be conversant in their love language. His displeasure leads me to think otherwise.

I don't think he realized I was new since it was a larger church. I think he automatically expected everyone to know him (i.e. celebrity-mentality). Even though he didn't say, "Do you know whom I am?" using words, I got the message from his reaction (LOL).

Some might say narcissistic. That they feel degraded if they aren't recognized as the best in everything.

I think that might be an one-upmanship.

 

[bèlla]

I came up in a context where a particular system of shame was in place. If you had a hard job to do and whined and complained while doing it, or just gave up, then you were made to realize that wasn't acceptable. It was a very effective system.

I did as well. We were expected to work hard and pursue excellence. I can recall report card day. My father would sit us in a circle. He went through every detail. Heaven help you if you had behavioral checks.

I think I developed my poker face during that time. We weren’t permitted to laugh when he corrected my siblings. Most times you were hoping to hear a well done and want him to move on to the next. ;-)

I think I learned early on that being able to endure difficult situations, usually physical, was part of being a man.

My youthful encounters with manliness were different from the ones I experience today. Men were less emotive and more likely to do than spend time talking or in their heads.

And yet, I think to myself, God didn't give us strong bodies for sitting at the computer.

I remember when my grandfather ordered a library of books on carpentry and home improvement. There were over 30 in the set. He went through each and taught himself all of it. He was intellectual and creative. But his knowledge was practical too.

Nonetheless, grown men with no purpose, no goal, no hope are dangerous.

That’s powerful. He’s rudderless in every sense of the word.

So, I don't know what the right role model is that captures the strength and character of "manliness," but at the same time can have a decent conversation and even share feelings. So, not all changes have been bad. But in some cases we ate the peel and threw out the banana.

I’ve been on the receiving end of that. I can’t understand but I’m trying to nonetheless.

But, what I am capable of is wholly supported by faith that when it is all said and done, if I am maimed or if I die, life will still obtain. I'm a lot stronger with God backing me up, so to speak.

That is the hallmark of God’s workmanship in a man. It is truly attractive and reassuring. I wish more would rest in Him and trust His leading.

 

[bèlla]

A diet that’s heavy on meats have been said to cause anger.

Did they mention specific meats as more harmful than others?

 

[ChicanaRose]

The sum of these frustrations is the "anger" we see - part engineered, part spiritual manipulation. That's my opinion.

I also think that our culture of busyness adds to everyone's stress level. Some men may have so much on their plates and be already on "the edge," that a slightest push could make them fall into rage.

 

[bèlla]

I think the men that are feeling disenfranchised are coming from families that experienced entitlement and luxuries previously unknown. I don't think they realize the luxuries they had - just that they are gone now.

Would you say they’re primarily from the middle class or would you include others in that statement?

A lot of men won't believe how they are being engineered physically and psychologically because men like to believe in control - and how can they be in control if there is a conspiracy to change them from the foundation from the outside?

In your opinion, how can this be remedied? Have you taken steps you can share?

If men don't have control, then they lose confidence. Loss of confidence affects relationships adversely; a man who is unsure of himself is not a man yet.

How does healthy control look from your perspective? What does it include? And how do you offset the unexpected?

This is also why you see this uprising in tribalism; men are trying to regain something that was never owed to them in the first place.

Is there a way to transform tribalism into unity for all men from every background?

If men could deny their urges to be basic, then we wouldn't need to feel basic. In other words, we need to stop "acting" the part of a man, choose this day what we individually believe makes a man, and then stick to that no matter what the paradigm is.

That is the missing anchor. You can’t sway with every wind of doctrine or social movement.

The reason we have "masculinity" totems in the first place - from thousands of years of behavior - is because one of the more important qualities of a man is consistency. This is why the qualities that actually make a man are abstract.

Your comment reminds me of something I heard Gary Vaynerchuk say. He admonished his listeners about their lack of focus and discipline. He shares his story to encourage them to look beyond the obvious and make intentional steps towards their goals.

He wasn’t the brightest or the most talented. But his consistency paid off in the long run. He often speaks of the long game and the necessity to accept that change and success don’t happen overnight. Hard work is a must as is time.

 

[bèlla]

I'm not really sure. Some might say narcissistic. That they feel degraded if they aren't recognized as the best in everything.

I’ve run into something similar in a business group. Everyone shared tips and helpful strategies. But declarations of success yielded outbursts, accusations, and a desire to silence the individual. All of the participants purchased the product. But some couldn’t accept others doing well if they didn’t. It was really bizarre and a little sad.

I am happy to let others be the experts in areas that I am not even interested in. I know that there are those with more expertise in subjects that I am interested in, too, but in so many "rooms," I am that person. When I do run into such a person (if they are likeable), I either collaborate with them or sit at their feet and learn even more.

I learn a lot through others and needn’t develop expertise in everything. I’m happy to glean from their experiences. Its a win/win for both.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think that might be an one-upmanship.

On steroids. Friendly rivalries are a type of one-upmanship, too. Engineers make use of it when collaborating. In that sense, it isn't that one is better at their job. The experiences that they bring to the table are just slightly different.

 

[bèlla]

I also think that our culture of busyness adds to everyone's stress level. Some men may have so much on their plates and be already on "the edge," that a slightest push could make them fall into rage.

I think busyness is promoted as a cultural ideal. Most people aren’t going constantly. But they’re overstimulated by the media, Internet, and technology.

 

[~Zao~]

Did they mention specific meats as more harmful than others?

Red meats in particular iirc

 

[JM]

Would you say the movement in itself or specific ideologies are the problem?

The fact that men play the dumb villain in society, from the #metoo movement to the dumb father on sit-coms, men are under consistent attack.

 

[JM]

Even if that were the case, two wrongs don't make a right.

No one said it was ChicanaRose.

 

[Kaon]

I also think that our culture of busyness adds to everyone's stress level. Some men may have so much on their plates and be already on "the edge," that a slightest push could make them fall into rage.

But that is "our" fault for listening to culture, as it were, and not being to keep up with all of the identity changes that allegedly make a man.

At one point all of these were considered (the epitome of) a man, or still are:

- Homosexuality
- Killing as many people as possible in combat
- Ruling an entire kingdom
- Having multiple wives/girlfriends/partners
- Money
- Technological advantage
- Abbrasive and wild facial hair
- Manicured facial hair
- Showing no emotion
- Showing emotion
- Beating your wife/girlfriend
- Showing compassion to your wife/girlfriend
- Brutality
- Meekness and mercy
- Displays of strength
- Displays of weakness
...

So, for the "layman" who is taught to respect the culture of the time, every 20 years there is a different meaning of masculinity and manliness. That means identity is tossed in a wave. This is why it is important to pick what *you* believe is a man, and be consistent with that no matter what anyone says. If I list qualities that I think makes a real man, someone can come up with a list that is allegedly equal in the quality of describing a real man. In society (where everyone has an equal opinion), the best you can do is be yourself. If you subscribe to a philosophy or spiritual alignment, then you need to adhere to that meaning of manliness if applicable (and resist the urge to change with society).


We are literally doing "too much" because we don't know who we are. You cannot do "too much" with focus and purpose.

 

[mothcorrupteth]

Would you say your disenchantment is common? Have you heard the same echoed by others?

Disenchantment? Yeah. Anger? Nobody's angry except the fringest of nuts. Most people are just fed up with the malarkey. It's like A Clockwork Orange, where everybody's using coercive force to reform you of "sexual deviancy," but behind the curtains your attending Ludovico physician is having adulterous relations with the nurse. You can't say anything, because they hold all the sticks and carrots, but it's obvious to anybody with a brain that it's just somebody else's sexism or ethno-nationalism that you're not allowed to call sexism or ethno-nationalism.

Who benefits most from the bias you’ve mentioned?

Depends on which bias you're talking about.

If meritocracy, then everybody who has merit benefits most. That can be a rich guy. That can be a poor guy. That can be a man. That can be a woman.

If revenge fanta-- I mean, "social justice," then sexists and nationalists who don't want to call themselves sexists and nationalists benefit the most.

 

[ChicanaRose]

No one said it was ChicanaRose.

This is a matter of fact statement, not directed at anyone in particular. Thanks.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

What are the root causes of male disenfranchisement? How do we help them manage their anger in a healthy way? How have you tackled this within yourself or with others?

Please share your thoughts.

I think most of this is out of your control sadly. Speaking as guy with issues with that. Lots of this problem have to do with economics, and social trends, especially things like out sourcing jobs etc.


That being said people probably could be more empathic on some social issues. On an issue like abuse for instance, you've got times where males are targeted for that by females like their wives etc. And the notion that such a thing exists is largely not a concept people grasp so men actually I think are much worse off than when this actually happens to women because their self esteem is more directly attacked by it plus they don't get much consolation from others except their closest friends.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I think Migtow should be understood emphatically. This Canadian Vlogger is really good on this stuff

 

[bèlla]

The fact that men play the dumb villain in society, from the #metoo movement to the dumb father on sit-coms, men are under consistent attack.

Yes, I’ve noticed the negative depictions. Do you see MGTOW as a healthy response to this?

 

[JM]

Yes, I’ve noticed the negative depictions. Do you see MGTOW as a healthy response to this?

Absolutely not. Our identity needs to be grounded and rooted in Christ, not the world, people are reacting to the world in a worldly manner.

Without Christ MGTOW...so do woman. Feminists seem angry all the time as well.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Tanj]

That being said people probably could be more empathic on some social issues. On an issue like abuse for instance, you've got times where males are targeted for that by females like their wives etc. And the notion that such a thing exists is largely not a concept people grasp so men actually I think are much worse off than when this actually happens to women because their self esteem is more directly attacked by it plus they don't get much consolation from others except their closest friends.

Most of the misogynistic nonsense in this thread I am just letting go because it represents the death throes of a patriarchy that is deservedly on the way out. However, this notion that woman-on-man domestic violence/abuse is on a par with man-on-woman is about as dangerous and wrong as the anti-vaxxer movement. The fact you specifically comment on it being worse for a man's self-esteem speaks volumes.

I wish the MGTOW men had the courage of their convictions and actually did remove themselves from society. I for one would be willing to chip in to buy them an island. They'll be dead in a generation with none of their genes passed on and the rest of the planet can move on.

 

[~Zao~]

Engineering one upmanship on gender ability at their job is very much a persons ability to know their identities. I don’t believe that’s a problem of adaption to anyone but each person it has effects upon.