Ancient of Days

Andrewn

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"Most of the eastern church fathers who comment on the passage in Daniel (7:9-10, 13-14) interpreted the elderly figure as a prophetic revelation of the son before his physical incarnation. As such, Eastern Christian art will sometimes portray Jesus Christ as an old man, the Ancient of Days, to show symbolically that he existed from all eternity, and sometimes as a young man, or wise baby, to portray him as he was incarnate. . . . Indeed, later, it was declared by the Russian Orthodox Church at the Great Synod of Moscow in 1667 that the Ancient of Days was the Son and not the Father."

Ancient of Days - Wikipedia

I believe this interpretation is much more plausible than the Western view of the Ancient of Days as God the Father, who is essentially invisible. But I'd like to know your interpretation of the following verse, which seems to indicate that the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man are different beings:

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and there was one like a Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. He came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him.
 

Andrewn

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the best I have heard is it's a vision of the Incarnation, where humanity (Son of Man) and divinity (Ancient of Days) unite.
Thank you so much. Do EO believe that angels and /or resurrected people will see God the Father?
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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the best I have heard is it's a vision of the Incarnation, where humanity (Son of Man) and divinity (Ancient of Days) unite.
Hi in Daniel 7 if you read the context it is very clear that this is the 2nd coming of Jesus as the kingdom that covers the earth and has no end can only come one time. In Dan 2 the coming kingdom is described as a stone cut without hands that descends and strikes the image of mans kingdoms and leaves no trace of them, grinding them to powder which is blown away. The stone becomes a mountain kingdom that covers the whole earth and has no end.
In Dan 7 a pompous one is persecuting the saints and is given a time times and half a time to before the son of man is sent and note that the pompous one is given to the flame and the rest of the beasts lose their dominion but have their lives spared for a season and a time. When you compare this with Rev you see the beast and false prophet are also given 42 months and when the LORD comes they are given to the flame but the dragon Satan is bound for a 1000 years and released for a time to tempt the nations one last time. This again shows the LORD is king over all the earth and indeed the beasts lost their dominion was rev 13 says
The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[fn] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[fn] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Remember when Jesus was tempted by Satan and offered all the kingdoms of the world in a time and Satan said all these are mine and I can give them to whom I wish. The beast is given this power and destroyed by the 2nd coming of the LORD. When Jesus ascended to heaven where did He go? psalm 110 has Jesus as the right hand of the Father.
The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
3 Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies, Zech 14 shows that the LORD comes on a very specific day and that life continues after this day on earth when the LORD is declared king over all the earth. The LORD comes specifically on a day when Jerusalem is being overrun. Dan 7 and Rev also place the 2nd coming when things are bad in Israel. The LORD comes with His saints and melts his enemies. This use of LORD is showing that Dan 7 is equating the son of man to the ancient of days and indeed the LORD is one God in 3 persons and the son of man and the LORD are bother shown as receiving the kingdom that covers the earth and there is no end. The son of man Jesus is the LORD.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Thank you so much. Do EO believe that angels and /or resurrected people will see God the Father?

only in His Incarnate Son, as Christ said to Philip
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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I think we see the Father through the Son as Zech 14 says the LORD or Jehovah is king over the earth but it is clearly Jesus the unity of Christ and Father are interchangeable as far as the kingdom go. Like Creation God created everything and then we see Jesus created all things. I do not pretend to be able to sort this mystery out as Dan 7 shows the son of man and the ancient of days as two yet they are one spirit mind and God. I look forward to the day when we are there and we can talk about it then.
 
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buzuxi02

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The vision of Daniel 7 and that of Dan 7:13 of the Ancient of Days has been interpreted as both God the Father (and of the Son) and as the pre-incarnate Christ beholding His divine and human nature.
The depiction on canonical icons of the Ancient of Days on the other hand is always that of Christ.
 
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AMM

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heretical. no aspect of God's essence will ever be beheld by anyone.
Can we behold God’s energies? Or will we only behold the incarnate Christ, and simply be aware of the Father and the Spirit’s presence?
 
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AMM

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heretical. no aspect of God's essence will ever be beheld by anyone.
What did Abraham see when he saw the three angels? Was that God’s essence in angelic form? Or a manifestation of his energies in the world? Or something else entirely?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Can we behold God’s energies? Or will we only behold the incarnate Christ, and simply be aware of the Father and the Spirit’s presence?

we behold the energies as Light everywhere and radiating from the Incarnate Christ.
 
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ArmyMatt

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What did Abraham see when he saw the three angels? Was that God’s essence in angelic form? Or a manifestation of his energies in the world? Or something else entirely?

it was a pre-Incarnate Christ. not the Essence.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Oh interesting. So what did Rublev (and others) mean when he called that icon the Holy Trinity?

I think because it was a prototype of the Revelation of the Trinity, which would come with Christ.

but you'd probably be better to ask an iconographer
 
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AMM

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I think because it was a prototype of the Revelation of the Trinity, which would come with Christ.

but you'd probably be better to ask an iconographer
Thanks, I’ll try to remember to ask my priest this Sunday (he is an iconographer)
 
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SingularityOne

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we behold the energies as Light everywhere and radiating from the Incarnate Christ.
Don’t we behold the Father through the Son in the Spirit?

“beholding the energies as Light everywhere and radiating from the Incarnate Christ” may be synonymous with that though.
 
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