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Riberra
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Why don't you consider the Genealogy from Adam to Jesus as a valid way to determine when Adam was created by God in the Garden of Eden ?
That is the only way you can double check the date for Adam's creation by God in the Garden Of Eden from another Biblical source .If there is still a discrepency then you should probably reconsider your certitude about your methodology.
Matthew 1 using Joseph's genealogy Lead to King David
Luke 3 using Mary's genealogy Lead to King David.
Genesis 5 lead us to Adam .
Apparently there was 1948 years from Abraham to Jesus ...and from Jesus to 1948 Israel was restaured .... more than Just coincidence.
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keras
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The 365.24 day year is the exact time the earth takes to orbit the sun. Any other calendar is so much scientific rubbish.
BUT, the Bible prophets tell us this will change on the Lord's Day of wrath, by a massive hit from a billion ton mass ejected from the sun. It will strike the earth a glancing blow, making it shake and shudder, Hebrews 12:26, and speeding up our orbit by 5.24 days.
Why should I? Why don't you do it?
Anyway the genealogy's don't give any time periods, so they are of no use for determining dates.
This is useless statement, an unsupported guess, that I have proved wrong. And Jesus was not born in 1 AD.
I am waiting for anyone to make a serious comment on my post #15.
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Popular end-time writers got their ideas from the '1260 days' mentioned in the book of Revelation. A superficial explanation is to divide that figure by 3.5 years and they arrive at a '360-day' year.
Undoubtedly, 1260 (and 1290) are part of an old luni-solar formula, however, it is different to the above mistaken theory. I hope that Keras and you take a close look at my linked diagram.
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FrankDux
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The 360 day year is from the stellar calendar that charts the procession of the Sun and Moon through the houses of the Mazzaroth ( Zodiac ) that nominally takes 25,920 years
25,920 / 360 = 72 years per degree ( nominally )
The modern Jewish calendar takes it's month length ( 29+13753 / 25920 days )from the Mesopotamian system of 25,920 years per " Great Year " to the number of parts per day, 25,920 chelekim
..which in turn come from a larger body of mathematical calculations involving Sumerian / Akkadian / Babylonian metrological units ( horns, fingers, barleycorn ) used for recording astronomical " omen " like eclipses later written of in the scriptures, hence the partial reason the terms 666 and 144,000 are for deriving a dimensionless number describing an eclipse
If you think the Mesopotamian astronomers actually thought there was a luni-solar year length of 360 days, I would suggest that you have not studied the subject of intercalation between the luni-solar calendar and the stellar calendar by calculation of eclipse year periodicity within the framework of the luni-solar calendar
Tell me, how do you synchronize the eclipse year to the luni-solar year so you can predict the time and location of an eclipse within the Mesopotamian zodiac ?
25,920 / 360 = 72 years per degree ( nominally )
The modern Jewish calendar takes it's month length ( 29+13753 / 25920 days )from the Mesopotamian system of 25,920 years per " Great Year " to the number of parts per day, 25,920 chelekim
..which in turn come from a larger body of mathematical calculations involving Sumerian / Akkadian / Babylonian metrological units ( horns, fingers, barleycorn ) used for recording astronomical " omen " like eclipses later written of in the scriptures, hence the partial reason the terms 666 and 144,000 are for deriving a dimensionless number describing an eclipse
If you think the Mesopotamian astronomers actually thought there was a luni-solar year length of 360 days, I would suggest that you have not studied the subject of intercalation between the luni-solar calendar and the stellar calendar by calculation of eclipse year periodicity within the framework of the luni-solar calendar
Tell me, how do you synchronize the eclipse year to the luni-solar year so you can predict the time and location of an eclipse within the Mesopotamian zodiac ?
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keras
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As I am not an American, I have never heard of a 'wazoo'. However, I can assume it means my mind.
So, you consider someone crazy if they say our exact year is 365.24 days? You want to make it something different?
Is a Lunar or stellar calendar of any real use to a farmer, for example. Maybe to an astronomer by not to any average Joe.
I have seen your diagram, Gideon and I disagree with it.
I stand by my contention, supported by Isaiah 13:13 and Hebrews 12:26, that the earth will be shaken from it's present orbit, not moved any closer to or further away from the sun, but have its orbit speeded up; by exactly 5:24 days.
This WILL make the time periods given in Daniel and Revelation, correlate correctly.
People just haven't read or understood what a dramatic and world changing event the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord's wrath will be. But it is surely coming, Ezekiel 33:38, and we Christians should be aware and physically and spiritually prepared for it.
I still await any sensible comment on my post #15
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keras said:
Do you think it is coincidental that there is always 1260 (or 1290) days from the Day of Atonement to 1st Nisan 3.5 years later? Are you not willing to consider that it might be an old formula synchronising the lunar and solar cycles?
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Riberra
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OK, i give it a try...
I hope for you that you will be able to support the heat and the pressure because i will use the same [harsh and cold] process that is used for example in an astronomy forum!
If you can explain the thought process by which you have gone to prefer your methodology which include the lenght of the reign of the Kings of Israel [+ some other "tweakings" in your calculation see below ** ] rather than using the probably more simple and precise Genealogy from Adam to Jesus that would surely help...
-At first view it seem that you have first tried the Genealogy from Adam to Jesus and when the result have not given the number of years that you expected [wished] you have come with the need to include the lenght of the reign of the King of Israel or the age of Abraham when they left Ur** +many more of the like**....is that right?
The breaking point when you stopped to use the purely genealogy aspect and you introduced your methodology for whatever reason [that you have yet to explain]is clearly delimited i have bolded it...
Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970BC. [added back from 586 BC]
Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70,
Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech
+187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 6:7 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber
+30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor
+30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70. Abraham was +52 when God called him and they left Ur, in our year 1970.5 BCE.**
Question 1 related to your calculation:
You wrote:
*Abraham was +52 when God called him and they left Ur, in our year 1970.5 BCE.*
From which source can we verify that it was exactly in our year 1970.5 BCE ?
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keras
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Maybe it is, but how does that affect us today?
As I said, such pedantic and scientific convolutions have no relevance to our present situation.
Where does the genealogies, after Abraham, give the time periods? We have to use the kings, from David and then the Judah line.
Right, the age of Abraham when he left Ur, isn't given in the Bible. But it is easy to calculate from what we are given and the amazing fact of there being exactly 2000 years from Adam until Abram was chosen and he went out in faith and then another exact 2000 years to when Jesus was baptized, now there will be another 2000 years to when Jesus will Return for the final 1000 years of Sabbath rest for the earth.
Believe it or not, as the saying goes!
Not; and you have denied and ignored Bible truths, plus placed yourself 'in the dark' about what God has planned for His people.
Believe it: and you are aware of imminent world changes, trials that we are told to stand firm for, then to expect great blessings from God, as His people go to and live in all of the holy Land.
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Riberra
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Question #1 related to your calculation:
From which source can we verify that it was exactly in our year 1970.5 BCE when they left UR ?
** You should read my edit in post #31 first paragraph [about a selective process used in science ]
Don't worry that will be a kindly process ...however...
Be prepare for a lot of questions like Question #1 that you will need to answer by using verifiable source.
If you can pass through the process your theory will be validated....don't forget that everybody else watchcing this thread can be part of the analysis process and ask you more questions related to your calculations.
You can chose to continue and validate your theory or stop right now if you cannot provide a stasfying answer to Question #1... your choice !
-I can open a new thread if you wish to continue the process ...-but first you need to answer Question #1.
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keras said:
It affects us today by stopping us from running down bunny trails chasing wrong interpretations of the 1260 days.
Anyway lets get back on topic. Next post coming up.
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Placement of Intercalary Months
When seven ‘weeks’ as described are spread over one Jubilee, a pattern of eighteen intercalary months appears that can be repeated indefinitely in each subsequent Jubilee cycle. Please examine the next diagram showing fifty years divided into blocks of seven. The seventh year (Sabbath) is indicated by a red square and the position of leap-months indicated by green dots. The fiftieth year is shown in purple; and notice how it is superimposed over the forty-ninth year and first year of the following cycle. A typical pattern of leap-months may be summarised as follows:
As can be seen, the eighteen intercalary months added over forty-nine years created the same overall effect as our modern Metonic system does, but it had a different way of going about it. The Metonic cycle moves gradually through each year, adding seven months over nineteen years, whereas the Hebrew method was 'Sabbatical' and avoided adding to Sabbath years. It is mentioned in the Rabbinic writings, (Tos. Sanhedrin 2:9) because a 13th month would have increased the seventh year, extending the Sabbath planting restrictions and creating an unnecessary burden on the people.
When compared with modern calendars, a few intercalary months are offset by one year but never did it wander off the seasons. The calendar given to Moses all those years ago worked. Moreover, it worked as well as, if not better, than any system we have today!
There are implications here for liberal scholars, such as Finklestein, and their theories of a primitive Israelitish nation evolving out of Canaan, whose knowledge of astronomy was only copied from the 'sophisticated' cultures around about. On the contrary; not only was the Hebrew calendar superior to Egypt's wandering year, but it predated Meton by a thousand years. From what I can find on the subject, there was nothing anywhere else quite like it.
When seven ‘weeks’ as described are spread over one Jubilee, a pattern of eighteen intercalary months appears that can be repeated indefinitely in each subsequent Jubilee cycle. Please examine the next diagram showing fifty years divided into blocks of seven. The seventh year (Sabbath) is indicated by a red square and the position of leap-months indicated by green dots. The fiftieth year is shown in purple; and notice how it is superimposed over the forty-ninth year and first year of the following cycle. A typical pattern of leap-months may be summarised as follows:
- 1st 7 years has 1+2 leap months
- 2nd 7 years has 1+1 leap months
- 3rd 7 years has 1+2 leap months
- 4th 7 years has 1+1 leap months
- 5th 7 years has 1+2 leap months
- 6th 7 years has 1+1 leap months
- 7th 7 years has 1+2 leap months
TOTAL 18 leap months
Im have trouble with images. Please go here:
As can be seen, the eighteen intercalary months added over forty-nine years created the same overall effect as our modern Metonic system does, but it had a different way of going about it. The Metonic cycle moves gradually through each year, adding seven months over nineteen years, whereas the Hebrew method was 'Sabbatical' and avoided adding to Sabbath years. It is mentioned in the Rabbinic writings, (Tos. Sanhedrin 2:9) because a 13th month would have increased the seventh year, extending the Sabbath planting restrictions and creating an unnecessary burden on the people.
When compared with modern calendars, a few intercalary months are offset by one year but never did it wander off the seasons. The calendar given to Moses all those years ago worked. Moreover, it worked as well as, if not better, than any system we have today!
There are implications here for liberal scholars, such as Finklestein, and their theories of a primitive Israelitish nation evolving out of Canaan, whose knowledge of astronomy was only copied from the 'sophisticated' cultures around about. On the contrary; not only was the Hebrew calendar superior to Egypt's wandering year, but it predated Meton by a thousand years. From what I can find on the subject, there was nothing anywhere else quite like it.
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keras
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From the Bible. My only source, excepting for the historical date of 586 BCE for the conquest of Jerusalem by Babylon and the historical confirmation of Luke 3:1-3, being 29:5 CE. These two known dates hook the Bible timelines to our modern calendar. Simple really.
Have you got out your calculator and checked my figures yet?
Does the result of what I have presented worry you? Is the thought of it, just too much?
I have given a perfectly logical and Biblically supported reason for how the present anomaly regarding the time periods of Daniel and Revelation, can be reconciled. Calling that 'bunny trails' is not proper rebuttal. From all the 'leap months' you list, bunny hopping is your thing!
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FrankDux
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" So, you consider someone crazy if they say our exact year is 365.24 days? "
No, I am saying you are attempting to teach a topic you have not studied
You don't know what you are talking about, in other words
I would suggest you start by learning basic Sumerian metrology that provides the framework for the modern Jewish calendar
No, I am saying you are attempting to teach a topic you have not studied
You don't know what you are talking about, in other words
I would suggest you start by learning basic Sumerian metrology that provides the framework for the modern Jewish calendar
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keras
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Historical studies is an interest of mine. I like to learn about ancient history and how they did things, so Sumerian metrology would interest me.
However, I do not see that, or any study of other calendars being of any value to us Christians in these last days.
We have the Bible, that is our source, that is what I have used and by the simple addition of given time periods, I have presented a valid timeline from Adam until the present time.
How does any other method of finding out where we are in God's Plan, improve it or change it in any way?
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Riberra
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I don't need to use a calculator to check your figure ,i am sure that you have done it yourself at least a hundred time.
Nothing gone to worry me ... Nobody knows the Day and the Hour When Jesus will Return to put a End to our present civilisation [our present age]to replace it with His Millennial Kingdom.
Saying that this will happen PRECISELY 6,000 YEARS after the creation of Adam will be proved wrong .... By the way, from what i remember from Bible 2 calculations [i still try to find his posts for the details ]the 6,000 years have been passed since 1860 AD of our actual calendar....
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