Anathema to Sabbath-keepers - Council of Laodicea

DennisTate

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If God changed the 10 Commandments He would have made that very clear when Jesus came to Earth as a Man/God, but He didn't change any of the 10 Commandments. And any changes to the Law of God, Jesus would have made those changes VERY CLEAR TO THE APOSTLES BEFORE HIS DEATH!! The book of Hebrews is a deep book, and have hijacked by misguided Christians who have put postmodern spins on text that were not even talking about the 10 Commandments.


Hi GladiatorforGod.......I personally do make an effort to attempt to honour the Sabbath......I don't feel that I do a very good job.........frankly spending much of the Sabbath on forums such as this is one of the best ways for me to keep myself out of trouble in other areas???!!!

Anyway.....I would be interested in your response to this question that I posed over in another forum here. As you can guess I have came to feel that my old Sabbath observing church in some ways made the mistake of putting the Sabbath ahead of human life.......or close to it!!!!?????


http://www.christianforums.com/t7758287/


An apology to all members of the military and police!
I just want to say that I am truly sorry for all those years that I was close to believing in near total pacifism! Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua once asked a question of the Scribes and Pharisees that should have made it obvious to me that an extreme situation can call for drastic action by a Christian or Jew who feels called into a life in the military or police!

Mark 3:4 "And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace."

I am almost certain that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua was referring to the situation faced by the Machabees when Greco - Syrian armies were attacking Jewish communities on the Sabbath.

One community had refused to fight back....but the Machabees....in my opinion correctly judged that this is a violation of an admonition by King Solomon:

Ecclesiastes 7:16 "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?"

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, First Book Of Machabees Chapter 2
..."So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons. [39] And Mathathias and his friends heard of it, and they mourned for them exceedingly. [40] And every man said to his neighbour: If we shall all do as our brethren have done, and not fight against the heathens for our lives, and our justifications: they will now quickly root us out of the earth.

[41] And they determined in that day, saying: Whosoever shall come up against us to fight on the sabbath day, we will fight against him: and we will not all die, as our brethren that were slain in the secret places."
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm
Source: CHURCH FATHERS: Synod of Laodicea (4th Century)

Which churches believe this today?
Roman Catholic?
Eastern Orthodox?
Any others?

What does anathema mean in this canon?
Originally Posted by
GladiatorforGod
If God changed the 10 Commandments He would have made that very clear when Jesus came to Earth as a Man/God, but He didn't change any of the 10 Commandments.
And any changes to the Law of God, Jesus would have made those changes VERY CLEAR TO THE APOSTLES BEFORE HIS DEATH!! The book of Hebrews is a deep book, and have hijacked by misguided Christians who have put postmodern spins on text that were not even talking about the 10 Commandments.
Good point...........


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A

annier

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ha ha ha! Then please tell me when they were "put away",
The sacraments of Judaism were put away when the temple was destroyed.
when Paul quit going to the temple, when the Jewish believers stopped being Jews! :D
Rabbinic Judaism believes it has transferred many of the temple sacraments to the synagogue.
Since Christianity does not believe that these sacraments of the Mosaic law are meritorious, why would Christians Jew or Gentile keep them?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by ContentInHim
ha ha ha! Then please tell me when they were "put away",
The sacraments of Judaism were put away when the temple was destroyed.

Originally Posted by ContentInHim
when Paul quit going to the temple, when the Jewish believers stopped being Jews! :D
Rabbinic Judaism believes it has transferred many of the temple sacraments to the synagogue.
Since Christianity does not believe that these sacraments of the Mosaic law are meritorious, why would Christians Jew or Gentile keep them?
Indeed! :thumbsup:



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Serpentslayer

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What many people overlook in their zealousness to back their faith is the inability to make a critical distinction between the Mark of the Beast that is the Mark of Man because it is authored by Man and the Seal of God because God is the author.

Today the New Covenant is the authorship of God the Holy Spirit the Living Seal and guarantor to a faithful in Christ's salvation unto resurrection.

Now if people try to hold onto Old Covenant practices thinking that they will be in favour with God, think again, because as soon as you do that you become recipient of the Mark of the Beast.

During the New Covenant era the Old Covenant became the Mark of the Beast for those who were without Christ between when Christ arose to when Jerusalem fell in 70AD.

The reason why it is considered the Mark of the Beast or Mark of Man is that the sanctifying role was arbitrated by LEVITICAL priests who administered God's word through written ordinances that needed to be complied with by the Jews of that time. When God the Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost the AUTHORITY of the LEVITICAL priesthood became a Mark of Man because they lost the empowered anointing to be priests of God.

We are to preach to the Jews without Christ but not associate with them if they continue in disobedience, we are NOT to pick up on their practices which has become popular among Adventists and other groups who think having close Jewish ties means they are in favour with God. In fact if you associate with paganism there is no favour with God and today's jews without Christ have become Godless pagan Gentiles.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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What many people overlook in their zealousness to back their faith is the inability to make a critical distinction between the Mark of the Beast that is the Mark of Man because it is authored by Man and the Seal of God because God is the author.

Today the New Covenant is the authorship of God the Holy Spirit the Living Seal and guarantor to a faithful in Christ's salvation unto resurrection.

Now if people try to hold onto Old Covenant practices thinking that they will be in favour with God, think again, because as soon as you do that you become recipient of the Mark of the Beast.

During the New Covenant era the Old Covenant became the Mark of the Beast for those who were without Christ between when Christ arose to when Jerusalem fell in 70AD.

The reason why it is considered the Mark of the Beast or Mark of Man is that the sanctifying role was arbitrated by LEVITICAL priests who administered God's word through written ordinances that needed to be complied with by the Jews of that time. When God the Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost the AUTHORITY of the LEVITICAL priesthood became a Mark of Man because they lost the empowered anointing to be priests of God.

We are to preach to the Jews without Christ but not associate with them if they continue in disobedience, we are NOT to pick up on their practices which has become popular among Adventists and other groups who think having close Jewish ties means they are in favour with God. In fact if you associate with paganism there is no favour with God and today's jews without Christ have become Godless pagan Gentiles.
QFT! :thumbsup: :amen:



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LittleLambofJesus

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The Catholic Church consider that the honour that the Jews gave to the Saturday, shall be given to the Sunday, because Sunday is the day of the risen and the day of the apparitions of Christ to the apostoles.

So on Sunday we have to go to Church to Mass, and we should not do servile works

About anathema, you can remind the use made by St Paul: (Gal 1:9): "If any one preach to you a gospel besides that which you have received, let him be anathema." (so it means accursed, overwhelmed with maledictions)

PS the council of Laodicea was not an Ecumenic Council, but simply a local Council, and so its canons are not strictly mandatory or infallible for us
Good quote from Galatians :thumbsup:



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Setyoufree

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Observance of the Sabbath will not save you .....

No, the NT, NC Sabbath doesn't save you. In fact the Sabbath as linked to redemption points to Christ's perfect work. Resting then is a sign that we are complete in Christ and can add nothing. Therefore refusing to rest, as God rested, is a sign of unbelief. That will condemn you.
 
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Setyoufree

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the Sabbath of the Jews

The Sabbath doesn't belong to the Jews...it belongs to God:

Matt 12:28 "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath"

Is 58:13 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him
 
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No, the NT, NC Sabbath doesn't save you. In fact the Sabbath as linked to redemption points to Christ's perfect work. Resting then is a sign that we are complete in Christ and can add nothing. Therefore refusing to rest, as God rested, is a sign of unbelief. That will condemn you.
Does that mean I don't have to work anymore? God didn't return to work creating on Sunday. That is God didn't take a periodic break.
 
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The Sabbath doesn't belong to the Jews...it belongs to God:

Matt 12:28 "the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath"

Is 58:13 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him
No, no. God gave it to the Jews and therefore its their property.
 
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LarryP2

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Circumcision was absolutely necessary under Judaic law BEFORE any of the Mosaic law applied. Circumcision was the first step in converting to Judaism, a step rejected for the Gentile Christian Converts at Antioch by the Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 and Acts 15. Without circumcision and full conversion, Gentiles faced the Death Penalty if they tried to keep the Sabbath. The Judaic Law is clear: Circumcision was VASTLY more important than the Sabbath. Circumcision must take place on the 8th day after birth: The Sabbath could and would be broken in order to undergo this procedure. Here is a ruling from the Sanhedrin around the time of the Apostles:

"Now, the Rabbis disagree with R. Eliezer only in respect of the preliminaries of circumcision; but as for circumcision itself, all hold that it supersedes the Sabbath"
....
"R. Eleazar b. 'Azariah said: If circumcision, which is [performed on but] one of the limbs of man, supersedes the Sabbath, the saving of life, a minori, must supersede the Sabbath."

Babylonian Talmud: Shabbath 132

Gentiles were prohibited on pain of death from Sabbath Keeping under the same Judaic law:

"10.11 A non-Jew who busied himself with Torah is liable with his life. He must involve himself in their Seven Commandments only. Similarly, a non-Jew who “rested” as one would on Shabbos, even on a weekday, is liable with the death penalty. There is no reason to mention (that he is culpable) if he invented his own holiday.

10.12 The principle here is that we do not permit them to make a new religion and create new commandments for themselves based on their own reasoning. They may only become Righteous Converts and accept upon themselves all the Commandments, or they must observe their own (Seven) Laws only, and not add or detract from them. If a non-Jew busied himself with Torah or made Shabbos or made up something new, we give him lashes and punish him and tell him that he is liable with the death penalty for doing this."
http://halakhah.com/rst/kingsandwars.pdf

"Similarly, a gentile who rests, even on a weekday, observing that day as a Sabbath, is obligated to die. Needless to say, he is obligated for that punishment if he creates a festival for himself. The general principle governing these matters is: They are not to be allowed to originate a new religion or create mitzvot for themselves based on their own decisions. They may either become righteous converts and accept all the mitzvot or retain their statutes without adding or detracting from them.
Why shouldn't Gentiles keep Shabbat? - Mi Yodeya

"The Maharsha explains that the Sabbath is, metaphorically, a bride. Indeed, the Talmud refers to the Sabbath as a bride and the Shabbos is greeted in the same way that a bride is greeted. Rabbi Avraham Sperling writes, based on this allegorical comparison, that “Shabbos” is the female companion to the Israelite nation. The Jewish Nation is “married” to Shabbos. Therefore, when a non-Jew follows the rules of Shabbos, it is as if he is committing “adultery” with the married bride “Shabbos”, and so he is liable for the death penalty......However, two thousand four hundred and forty-eight years later, HaShem granted the Jews a special present, namely, the Holy Sabbath, with which they can rest, in contrast to the remainder of society. Therefore, world society is not allowed to rest because of the curse of Adam, while the Jews are allowed to rest because the Torah specifically calls for a Mitzvah of Shabbos, which was a unique gift granted to the Jewish Nation . . R. Abulafia (1170-1244) explains that the gift of Shabbos was given specifically to the Jews, and therefore if a Noahide keeps Shabbos, he is actually stealing from the Jews and is therefore liable for the prohibition of stealing (which is one of the Seven Noachide Laws).

Why shouldn't Gentiles keep Shabbat? - Mi Yodeya

"A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death" (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as "the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone," and it was probably directed against the Christian Jews, who disregarded the Mosaic laws and yet at that time kept up the observance of the Jewish Sabbath."
GENTILE - JewishEncyclopedia.com

"If a Gentile observes Sabbath, and studies Torah, he in fact renders himself to an onlooker ostensibly as a Jew: he acts like a Jew resting on the seventh day, and he partakes of the Jew’s unique role as Torah educator with his study of more than his 7 Noachide Laws. This is not a lack in fulfilling his Noachide role, since the Gentile is in fact doing ‘more’ with these two commands. No…the violation committed here with Sabbath observance and Torah study is regarding his role as Star Worshipper. His status as Noachide does not enter the picture, but the other status does: i.e., his status of “non-Jew”, or “Star Worshiper”, which was the original classification that offset the first Jew who was monotheistic......a Gentile who wishes to dilute the uniqueness of the Jew by copying his Sabbath ad Torah, equally destroys the Jew’s role.....The Jewish “ideology” must be preserved by the Gentile’s refrain from mimicking our primary commands of Sabbath, and Torah study......The Gentile who observes Sabbath destroys the Jew by obscuring the Jew’s role. Since this Gentile is not abandoning any of his 7 Noachide Laws, his violation is not in terms of his right-to-life “Noachide” status.
Gentiles and Torah Study:

And Paul was adamant that Christians should submit to lawful authority:

Romans 13
New International Version (NIV)
Submission to Governing Authorities


13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

There is exactly ZERO chance that any Gentile Christians ever kept the Sabbath. Unless Sabbath advocates are willing to go on record and demand that Sabbath Keeping is a condition of Salvation, which Paul stated it was not, then this entire set of threads is actually worthless. In no way would the Apostles have allowed the Christian Gentile converts to keep the Sabbath, given that it is unnecessary for Salvation as well as being prohibited under Jewish Law, and could only serve to subject a Gentile to the Death Penalty for no reason.


There is a 100 percent ABSENCE of any Gentile - before, during and after Christ - keeping the Sabbath. Not once does the Bible portray a Gentile keeping the Sabbath. Not once. That is completely consistent with the "preamble" of the Decalogue: They were given to the Israelites delivered out of Egyptian bondage. No Gentiles ever have or ever will fit within that classification. Both Jews and Gentiles were "on the same page:" Jews never helped Gentiles keep the Sabbath and Gentiles never tried to keep it on their own. It simply never happened.

The Council of Laodicea's decision must be kept in perspective: The "Judaizing heresy" was a persistent problem in the first three centuries of Christianity, and was vigorously battled. The writings of both St. Ignatius of Antioch and Plolycarp - both direct disciples of the Apostle John and Peter - are filled with denunciations of these heretics who sought to bind Christians to the Mosaic Law. The Council of Laodicea merely put into writing the centurys' long practice of the Early Christian Church. There is nothing new or revolutionary in the Council's rendition of Canon #29.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Circumcision was absolutely necessary under Judaic law BEFORE any of the Mosaic law applied.
Circumcision was the first step in converting to Judaism, a step rejected for the Gentile Christian Converts at Antioch by the Council of Jerusalem in AD 50................
:amen:

That is how I view it also.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7411038/
Galatians,still stands today against the circumcision.

Phil 3:2
Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of-the circumcision!
3 For we are the circumcision, ones to Spirit of God worship, boasting in Christ Jesus, and not in flesh having confidence.
 
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LarryP2

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Sabbath Keepers have no issue with Church Councils devising doctrine with no biblical support, or even contrary to the Bible.

First and foremost, the Seventh Day Adventist Church itself has INDEED had three separate Church Councils where the Church as a matter of indisputable fact has rejected the Scriptures as a basis for Church Doctrine. Moreover, all three times the Councils decided to deliberately lie to the Church Membership about the complete absence of biblical basis for all three of Seventh Day Adventism's distinctive doctrines. So it is clear Seventh Day Adventists are ONLY opposed to the Christian Church Councils, but are fully in favor of their own Councils where the Bible has been systematically anihilated. Adventists find themselves in a rogue's gallery of anti-Christian cults that also reject fundamental Christian doctrine. Other odious cults that reject the decisions of the Christian Church Councils include Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, World Wide Church of God, and Mormons. Adventists find themselves in extremely BAD and anti-Christian company in this emphatic rejection of Christianity's fundamental doctrines. :

1). The 1888 General Conference "discussed crucial theological issues such as the meaning of "righteousness by faith", and the nature of the Godhead, and the relationship between law and grace and Justification and its relationship to Sanctification." As a result of this conference, the Seventh Day Adventist Church emphatically-rejected Righteousness by Faith as a doctrine, and strongly reaffirmed their present legalistic method of Salvation by Perfect Sabbath Keeping. The Church continued to reject both the Divinity of Christ, his Full Atonement on the Cross, and the Trinity as Church doctrines. Those interlinked, insanely Pro-Salvation-by-Perfect-Sabbath-Keeping decisions unambiguously demonstrate that Seventh Day Adventism is NOT a Christian denomination. Here is a good summary:

"Debaters and polemicists emerged, stressing the Sabbath, the Law, etc. — like lawyers arguing a case. Spirituality waned, and not a few became decided legalists. . . . Cold intellectualism and dry theory increased. Christ often became secondary, and Righteousness by Faith largely lost sight of, through outward profession without inner experience."
....
"the presentation of the message of Christ as the only source of righteousness by two young preachers was going to create conflict with some members including church leaders."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1888_Minneapolis_General_Conference_(Adventist)

2). The 1919 General Conference, where a consensus was reached by the Church's top theologians and Bible Scholars that Ellen White was a colossal fraud, a false prophet, an inveterate thief and a pathological liar. The conference decided to "kick the can down the road" and seal the transcripts of the meeting, in order to conceal this knowledge from the Church Membership and particularly, their seminary students. The upshot is that Church membership went on revering a "Prophet" that drastically fell short of all of the Biblical standards for prophets, and met ALL of the standards for a False Prophet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_Bible_Conference_(Adventist)

3). The "super-secret Committee on Problems in the Book of Daniel" met intermittently for five years (1961-1966) where Seventh Day Adventism's absurdly-unbiblical "Investigative Judgment" doctrine was discussed and although 48 of Adventism's theologians wrote papers on the subject, the committee was adjourned when no biblical basis for the doctrine could be found. The upshot is that the membership of the Seventh Day Adventist Church went on believing in a doctrine that its foremost Bible Scholars could find NO basis for in the Bible.
THE "SANCTUARY DOCTRINE" – ASSET OR LIABILITY

To recap, Seventh Day Adventists have no issue with Church Councils devising or supporting doctrines with no biblical basis. In three major historical instances, that is precisely what the Church has done. There is also no criticism of Adventist Councils' decision to lie to the Church Membership and Seminary Students about the complete lack of biblical basis for their doctrines. Thus, Seventh Day Adventists limit their criticism of Church Councils to the ones that were called by the entire Body of Christ in the early years of Christianity. The Christian Church doctrines that Adventists have historically-hated and strongly-opposed include the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, rejection of the Sabbath as incompatible with Grace, and the Full Atonement of the Cross. In other words, Adventists have a history of despising all of the fundamental doctrines of Christianity. Every important fundamental Christian doctrine formulated at the Church Councils has been opposed at one time or another, by the Seventh Day Adventist Church. And their rejection of Christianity's decision at the Council of Laodicea - that the Sabbath is completely incompatible with the Gospel -
was absolutely proven to be nothing short of prophetic at Adventisms's own 1888 General Conference!!!

Adventism's entire argument against Christianity's Church Councils therefore is fatuous, dishonest, anti-Christian to its core, hypocritical and ultimately, completely self-righteous. No Christian Council has ever made a deliberate decision to lie to the members of the Body of Christ. That is a tactic that is limited to only Seventh Day Adventist Church Councils. The Church's own words condemning itself after the 1888 debacle are worth reviewing:

"Alas, what pride is prevailing in the church, what hypocrisy, what deception..... what desire for the supremacy! All these sins have clouded the mind, so that eternal things have not been discerned." –The Review and Herald, March 22, 1887.

"Spiritual death has come upon the people that should be manifesting life and zeal, purity and consecration, by the most earnest devotion to the cause of truth. The facts concerning the real condition of the professed people of God, speak more loudly than their profession, and make it evident that some power has cut the cable that anchored them to the Eternal Rock, and that they are drifting away to sea, without chart or compass." –Ibid., July 24, 1888.
The Minneapolis Conference and Its Aftermath | Official website of the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement

You cannot get a more accurate statement regarding the horrifying, gut-wrenching spiritual catastrophe that Sabbath-Keeping almost always incurs, straight from the mouths of Seventh Day Adventists!
 
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mercy1061

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Does that mean I don't have to work anymore? God didn't return to work creating on Sunday. That is God didn't take a periodic break.

Have you finished all of your work? Have you carefully examined all of your work and determined that all of your work is good?
 
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mercy1061

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No, no. God gave it to the Jews and therefore its their property.

I did not know the Sabbath was something tangible like property? Since G-d rested in the beginning in a place somewhere there were no jews, how can the sabbath belong to jews only?
 
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mercy1061

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No and it doesn't have anything to do with the 7th day of creation or God's rest you still apparently don't have and can't recognize.

So you admit that you have not finished all of your work? So you are not able to rest, since your work remains undone?
 
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