Anathema to Sabbath-keepers - Council of Laodicea

[Sophrosyne]

Eh, to bad that's not my confession. But nice try to twist what I said. What are you happy about?

I think some are guilty of laying aside the commandments of God for the traditions of WOMEN here...

 

[from scratch]

I think some are guilty of laying aside the commandments of God for the traditions of WOMEN here...

Yeppers!! That's how they get around the verse.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yeppers!! That's how they get around the verse.

They don't get around the verse at all, it is like driving through an intersection not paying attention to traffic lights and because you didn't get hit you think you must have had right of way and a green light.

 

[BobRyan]

For those willing to read the actual Bible --

====================

Mark 7 talks about this idea of condemning the word of God via the councils of men.

==========================

Mark 7

” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

================================

Was Christ right or wrong?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think some are guilty of laying aside the commandments of God for the traditions of WOMEN here...

Women, can't live with 'em, can't live w/o 'em.

Rotherham) Isaiah 3:12
My people! children are their tyrants, And women rule over them,--My people!
they who should lead thee forward are causing thee to stray,

Reve 9:
7 And the likenesses of the locusts like horses having been made ready into battle, and upon the heads of them, as crowns, like gold, and the faces of them as faces of men,
8 and they had hairs, as hairs of women, and the teeth of them were as of lions,



.

 

[from scratch]

Women, can't live with 'em, can't live w/o 'em.

Rotherham) Isaiah 3:12
My people! children are their tyrants, And women rule over them,--My people!
they who should lead thee forward are causing thee to stray,

Reve 9:
7 And the likenesses of the locusts like horses having been made ready into battle, and upon the heads of them, as crowns, like gold, and the faces of them as faces of men,
8 and they had hairs, as hairs of women, and the teeth of them were as of lions, .

Yeah Adam has my deepest sympathies. Poor guy had no choices.

 

[mercy1061]

Yeah Adam has my deepest sympathies. Poor guy had no choices.

Why do you keep scratching your head?

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe it is because this thread was started on the traditions of men used to bend the Bible - and then it is pointed out that Christ already addressed this topic in Mark 7.

==============================

Mark 7 talks about this idea of condemning the word of God via the councils of men.

==========================

Mark 7

” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

 

[from scratch]

Why do you keep scratching your head?

I guess you get blessing for that post. I see no other reason for it.

 

[BobRyan]

Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:
Source: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

Which churches believe this today?
Roman Catholic?
Eastern Orthodox?
Any others?

What does anathema mean in this canon?

Great example in that quote of declaring war against the "Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) thy God" Ex 20:8-11

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

For those willing to read the actual Bible --........................

Yes, reading it is important, as is understanding it.....

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-one-reading.7356783/

Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation having stood the-where not it is binding, (the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) let him be understanding!
then those in the Judea let be fleeing! into the mountains

2 Corin 1:
13 For we do not write you anything that is beyond your ability to read and understand.
And I hope that you will understand completely,

Revelation 1:3
Happy/blessed the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written
for the time nigh.

314. anaginosko an-ag-in-oce'-ko from 303 and 1097; to know again, i.e. (by extension) to read:--read. [Used 32 times in NT.
303. ana a primary preposition and adverb; properly, up; but (by extension) used (distributively) severally, or (locally) at (etc.).............
1097. ginosko a prolonged form of a primary verb; to "know" (absolutely) in a great variety of applications and with many implications (as follow, with others not thus clearly expressed):--allow, be aware (of), feel, (have) know(-ledge), perceived, be resolved, can speak, be sure, understand

.............................................

.

 

[BobRyan]

In your post you quoted this post - - at least a tiny part of it

=========================== begin quote

For those willing to read the actual Bible --
Mark 7 talks about this idea of condemning the word of God via the councils of men.

Mark 7
” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

So - was Christ right or wrong?

--------------------------------------- end quote

Yes, reading it is important, as is understanding it.....

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-one-reading.7356783/

Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation
having stood the-where not it is binding, (the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) let him be understanding!
then those in the Judea let be fleeing! into the mountains

Very true - understanding simple easy-to-read texts is pretty important.

And the question in that post you quoted from - also easy to read.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

For those willing to read the actual Bible --...................

Like the SDAs and Messianics are the only ones that read the Bible......bah
Anathema is an interesting greek word

John 7:1
After these, Jesus was walking in the Galilee, for not He willed in the Judea to be walking, that the Judeans sought to kill Him

Acts 23:14
Who-any coming toward to the Chief-priests and to the Elders say "to-anathema/anaqemati <331> we anathemtize/aneqematisamen <332> (5656) ourselves of no yet nothing to taste till of which we may be killing the Paul.

Reve 22:3
and every anathema/katanaqema <2652> not shall be still.
And the throne of Yahweh and of the Lamb in Her shall be,
and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.


http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jew.htm
*snip*

....The Hebrew word translated "utterly destroy" is 'cherem.' B
oth the people and the land of Canaan were 'cherem,' meaning FORCIBLY dedicated to God as withdrawn from His service and worship wherein He was not glorified, and by the hands of another, devoted to Him for destruction whereby He will be glorified.
The equivalent Greek word is "anathema.".......

......................................................

.

 

[BobRyan]

]For those willing to read the actual Bible --

====================

Mark 7 talks about this idea of condemning the word of God via the councils of men.

==========================

Mark 7

” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

================================

Was Christ right or wrong?

Like the SDAs and Messianics are the only ones that read the Bible......bah
Anathema is an interesting greek word

I like the fact that while I make no reference at all to "SDA's and Messianic Jews" in my post - you assume that by simply quoting the Bible - and affirming it - I must be pointing out your rejection of it.

I never claimed you had to reject that text.

On the contrary - I argue that the Bible details in the very post you just quoted - are glaringly obvious to all of us.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

]For those willing to read the actual Bible --

====================

Mark 7 talks about this idea of condemning the word of God via the councils of men.

==========================

Mark 7

” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

================================

Was Christ right or wrong?

What audience was Jesus addressing? Are you implying all the Protestant denominations that worship on Sunday instead of Saturday are like the Pharisees?

Luke 7
1 And gathered together unto him are the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, having come from Jerusalem, 2 and having seen certain of his disciples with defiled hands — that is, unwashed — eating bread, they found fault;
Matthew 23:
33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>

Who is symbolizing the "rich man" in this covenantle parable?

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

Luke 16:
24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am pained in this flame.

Revelation 14:11
“And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night.............

 

[BobRyan]

]For those willing to read the actually Bible --

====================

Mark 7 talks about this idea of condemning the word of God via the councils of men.

==========================

Mark 7

” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

===============================
Was Christ right or wrong?

So then the question in the post "Was Christ wrong?" waits for an answer

What audience was Jesus addressing?

"Was Christ wrong? " not getting that answer ... still.

And the answer to your question: "Bible believers".

Are you implying all the Protestant denominations that worship on Sunday instead of Saturday are like the Pharisees?

I am stating that all Christians - Catholic or Protestant should pay attention to Jesus' teaching ... and that includes Mark 7.

Which it appears is a new idea for you. It raises a question for me -- how is it that this concept is news to you? Or are you just trying to make sure that all Christians reading this thread know that Jesus was teaching the church in the gospels?

Christ's teaching on this subject makes for "instructive comparison" with the OP.

Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:
Source: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So then the question in the post "Was Christ wrong?" waits for an answer

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
What audience was Jesus addressing?

"Was Christ wrong? " not getting that answer ... still.
And the answer to your question: "Bible believers".

Yes, they believed in Yahweh of the OT, they were after all OC Mosaic Jews under the OC Law of Moses [as was Jesus], however the OC Jews of today still read just the OC/OT of the Bible, even though the NT/NC is available to them, correct?.
Also, the NT/NC hadn't yet been written when Jesus was preaching.......

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke16:
26 " 'And besides all this, between us [NC>Jesus/grace/spirit/life and you[ye][OC>Moses/Law/death] there is a great gulf fixed[CROSS?],
so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'
27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' "

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage.
Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!.......................

Yeshua uses the last two verses of this parable as an amazing prophecy of his pending resurrection from the dead.
The rich man says that although his brothers may not accept the scriptural evidence for the identity of the Messiah, they will accept the evidence of one who is raised from the dead.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Your Neighbor said: ↑
Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:

BobRyan said: ↑
\Mark 7 talks about this idea of condemning the word of God via the councils of men.
Mark 7
” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

from scratch said: ↑
Why yes sir some of the New Testament is merely the ideas of men making 1 Tim 3:16 invalid or parts of the same material you even quote out right lies from satan.

BobRyan said: ↑
indeed - I had been hoping that you might come around on that point. I am happy to see it.
in Christ,
UOTE]

from scratch said: ↑
Yeppers!! That's how they get around the verse.

They don't get around the verse at all, it is like driving through an intersection not paying attention to traffic lights and because you didn't get hit you think you must have had right of way and a green light.

Nice analogy.........

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:

What does anathema mean in this canon?

Anathema

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

331. anathema from 394; a (religious) ban or (concretely) excommunicated (thing or person):--accused, anathema, curse, X great.
332. anathematizo from 331; to declare or vow under penalty of execration:--(bind under a) curse, bind with an oath.
334. anathema from 394 (like 331, but in a good sense); a votive offering:--gift.
2652. katanathema from 2596 (intensive) and 331; an imprecation:--curse.
==========================================
Acts 23:14
Who-any toward coming to the Chief-priests and to the Elders say "to-anathema/anaqemati <331> we anathematize/aneqematisamen <332> (5656) ourselves of no yet nothing to taste till of which we may be killing Paul.

Expositor's Greek Testament
Acts 23:14. τοῖς ἀρχ., cf. Acts 4:23, see critical note on reading in [373] (Blass).—ἀναθέματι ἀνεθεμ.: “we have bound ourselves under a great curse,” thus representing the emphatic Hebrew idiom, cf. Acts 5:28, and for the same phrase cf. Deuteronomy 13:15; Deuteronomy 20:17. The conspirators may have been instigated by the knowledge that the Sanhedrim could no longer inflict capital punishment, and from despair of obtaining the sanction of the Roman authorities for violence against Paul. It is quite certain that sentence of death must at all events be ratified by the procurator. Another serious restriction of the Jewish powers lay in the fact that the Roman authorities could step in at any moment and take the initiative, as in the case of Paul.
Moreover the incidents before us illustrate the strange fact that even the chiliarch of the Roman force stationed in Jerusalem seems to be able to summon the Sanhedrim for the purpose of submitting to it any question upon which the Jewish law had to be learnt, cf. Acts 22:30, Schürer, Jewish People, div. ii., vol. i., p. 188 ff., with which, however, should be compared O. Holtzmann, Neutest. Zeitgeschichte, pp. 175, 176.—γεύσασθαι: “to taste nothing,” R.V. “Hoc certe tam præposterum concilium nunquam probassent sacerdotes, si qua in illis fuisset gutta pii rectique affectus, imo sensus humani,” Calvin. Edersheim quotes a curious illustration of the rash vow before us, which shows how easily absolution from its consequences could be obtained, Jewish Social Life, p. 229, J. Lightfoot, Hor. Heb.
==========================
Reve 22:3
and every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be still. And the throne of the God/YHWH and of the Lamb-kin/Word in Her shall be, and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.

History of God's Holy Bible and the so-called Jews
The Hebrew word translated "utterly destroy" is 'cherem.' Both the people and the land of Canaan were 'cherem,' meaning FORCIBLY dedicated to God as withdrawn from His service and worship wherein He was not glorified, and by the hands of another, devoted to Him for destruction whereby He will be glorified. The equivalent Greek word is "anathema." In the case of the Canaanites who were natural Serpent's seed, cherem is the consecration to God of His enemies (Hebrew "hated ones" - Isaiah 34:1-8; Malachi 1:2-3; Romans 9:13), and their belongings by means of fire and sword

God commissioned Joshua, "Be strong and very courageous, that you may observe to do according to all the Law, which Moses My servant commanded you: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may prosper wheresoever you go. This Book of the Law shall not depart out of your mouth; but you shall meditate therein day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then you shall make your way prosperous, and have good success" (Joshua 1:7-8).

This man of God was deceived by these accursed people when he made a covenant with them without first consulting the Lord (Joshua 9). Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Malachi and the other prophets describe how the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob intermarried through "multiculturalism." Later, in AD740, the nation of Khazaria was converted overnight and inducted into Jewry by Talmudic Jews from Babylon.

Every Jewish historian of note, and all encyclopaedias, Jewish and otherwise, agree that only a tiny remnant of so-called Jews is Semitic. None of these possess the faith of Abraham and few worship according to Yahweh Torah instituted by Moses. The few who are not atheistic or agnostic mostly follow Talmudic Judaism which is Pharisaism and anathema to Moses and the prophets.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Canon 29 of the Council of Laodicea (ca. A.D. 360) explicitly condemns the veneration of the Sabbath and enjoins working on such a day in order to show a special respect for Sunday:

Which churches believe this today?
Roman Catholic?
Eastern Orthodox?
Any others?

That was not a full ecumenical council. Also, the Eastern Orthodox do not call Sunday the Sabbath. The Sabbath day is still the 7th day in Eastern Orthodoxy...