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An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

mmksparbud

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Archangel is still an angel, so yes you do believe Christ was a created being. Don't be getting all huffy, defend your position and if you can't admit the truth.
That's your SDA (faulty) interpretation. Jesus is not an angel, and the Lord is not an angel.



Nobody getting huffy---position has been defended-you can't follow along or read the links, not my fault. Jesus was not a created being. You do pray to an angel then, right? You say Michaele is only an regular angel, a created being, and you pray to him. We do not even though we believe Him to be Jesus. We pray to Jesus---you pray to angels and dead people we do not.
 
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topcare

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Nobody getting huffy---position has been defended-you can't follow along or read the links, not my fault. Jesus was not a created being. You do pray to an angel then, right? You say Michaele is only an regular angel, a created being, and you pray to him. We do not even though we believe Him to be Jesus. We pray to Jesus---you pray to angels and dead people we do not.

You pray to people on earth. In fact I bet you prayed to someone not to long ago because you needed prayer for something. Pray means to ask so let's stop playing games which you SDA love to do. You don't even know me so don't pretend to and don't think you know how I pray. Your answer tells me everything, you can't defend your position that you all believe Christ being a created being
 
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mmksparbud

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You pray to people on earth. In fact I bet you prayed to someone not to long ago because you needed prayer for something. Pray means to ask so let's stop playing games which you SDA love to do. You don't even know me so don't pretend to and don't think you know how I pray. Your answer tells me everything, you can't defend your position that you all believe Christ being a created being


We do not pray TO people on earth. Prayers from the living for the living from believers is entirely biblical--praying to the dead, or angels is not. If Michael is only an angel--you pray to him which is totally against the bible. We do not believe Christ is a created being---Micheale is Jesus and therefore not a created being, and even then, we still do not [pray to Him. Now, If that is all you can say, then you have no argument except to keep insisting we believe something that we clearly do not. However, you do not refute the fact you pray to what you believe to be a created being and dead people.
 
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We do not pray TO people on earth.

Of course you do. Have you ask your friends to pray for you or a family member or yourself? Then you pray to them, pray means to Ask and that what you do is ask others to ask God for healing, etc. what you do is pray to others to pray to God for healing, etc.

I will spare you. It's clear you have no defense and you never did and your ideas are all man made from the 1800 and EG White

what you believe to be a created being and dead people

There are no dead in Christ and I hope you never ask someone to pray for you because than your praying (asking) created beings
 
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mmksparbud

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Good grief---how convoluted. To ask for prayer is not praying to that person--I have no idea what you theology is, if that is what you believe then that is your interpretation , it is certainly not ours. To us, we go by the definition of praying TO is opposed to praying FOR. Apparently your dictionary has no such diction---my condolences. I gather you not only pray to angels and dead people but also TO living people.
 
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I gather you not only pray to angels and dead people but also TO living people.

I feel bad for you, you think people who die in Christ are dead but they are not. Let's look at the Dictionary definition:

5. Archaic To ask (someone) imploringly for something; beseech. Used chiefly in the phrase I pray you to introduce a polite or urgent request or question: I pray you be careful.
adv.
Used to make a polite or urgent request or question: Pray don't apologize.

You really should know English a bit better so as not to embarrass yourself, as you can see pray simply means to make a request. Now you may also use it in the sense of praying to God which still means to make a request. Once you understand things better discussion can begin why you all worship an angel
 
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mmksparbud

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You are free to believe what you want-regardless of anyone's definition. I prefer to use biblical definition. Besides---the words in question is not the word PRAY----the words are TO and FOR---0I suggest you look those up.




Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:


1Ti 6:15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

(1Ti 6:16) who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

(Heb 2:14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

(Gen 3:4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

(Psa 6:5) For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

(Isa 51:6) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

(Eze 18:4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

(Eze 18:20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him

.(Eze 18:26) When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

(Eze 18:28) Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

(Eze 28:8) They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
(Eze 33:15) If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
(Joh 11:25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
(Mat 22:32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
 
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Root of Jesse

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May I ask your interpretation of the texts I posted? If you have none, then your objection to my understanding is moot.
The Church teaches that they're angels. Plain and simple as it says.
 
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Root of Jesse

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It's been presented--you were given a link that goes into the MANY verses to go into this, not just by SDA, but other denominations also. You did no research. You're argument is not with us only. We know Jesus is not a created angel--He is THE Angel of the Lord, Michael THE Archangel, The High Priest, The Son of God, The creator, The I Am, He has many titles. I guess you didn't get the memo.
No, he is the Son of God. Michael the archangel is a created being. I guess YOU didn't get the memo.
 
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Root of Jesse

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You are free to believe what you want-regardless of anyone's definition. I prefer to use biblical definition. Besides---the words in question is not the word PRAY----the words are TO and FOR---0I suggest you look those up.
So then when I pray to Mary, I'm asking her for help. So what?
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:


1Ti 6:15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

(1Ti 6:16) who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

(Heb 2:14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

(Gen 3:4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

(Psa 6:5) For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

(Isa 51:6) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

(Eze 18:4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

(Eze 18:20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him

.(Eze 18:26) When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

(Eze 18:28) Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

(Eze 28:8) They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
(Eze 33:15) If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
(Joh 11:25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
(Mat 22:32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mary and the saints are LIVING in heaven. Only their bodies are dead.
 
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mmksparbud

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I'll pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ, you can pray to whomsoever you wish.---Michael your created angel, Mary, or any other dead person---doesn't matter to me.

The Church teaches that they're angels. Plain and simple as it says.


I know that's what your Church teaches---it is not what the bible teaches---so you do whatever you want.
 
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Commander Xenophon

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You pray to people on earth. In fact I bet you prayed to someone not to long ago because you needed prayer for something. Pray means to ask so let's stop playing games which you SDA love to do. You don't even know me so don't pretend to and don't think you know how I pray. Your answer tells me everything, you can't defend your position that you all believe Christ being a created being

The SDA believe in Soul Sleep, and on that basis I think they have more valid reasons for not asking the intercessions of the saints than most Protestants. So on this point alone, I respect their doctrine as internally consistent, because they believe, correct me if I am wrong, that all the righteous are asleep amd awaiting the resurrection. This view is actually more accurate than the neo-Gnostic error believed in by many evangelicals, that when we die, our souls instantly and permanently go to Heaven or Hell and remain there without a Last Judgement, a General Resurrection, and the Parousia establishing a new Heavens and a new Earth, the error that the whole point of Christianity is to just save your soul amd get it to Heaven, as opposed to reposing in Heaven being resurrected into glory, judged by our Lord as deserving eternal life, being ascertained as part of the wheat and not the chaff.

The error is that the SDAs believe that we are unconscious until that resurrection, when the Bible suggests that the soul after death, before the Parousia, is conscious and exists in spiritual form.

However, on the basis of their theology, praying to the departed saints would make no sense because owing to soul sleep, they could not answer.

On the other hand, I do not understand the logic behind the magisterial Protestant rejection of the intercession of the saints; if these people are in Heaven, and there is in each case strong evidence that they are, why not ask them to pray for us? The Virgin Mary certainly is.

By the way, while according to traditional theology as historically always understood by the ancient Christian church, Judaism and most other related religions such as Zoroastrianism, Yarsanism, Yazidism, Gnosticism, Islam, et cetera, angels are created beings or emanations of God, so according to the shared traditional theology of the ancient Christians, the denominations that still adhere to that theology, and the surviving religions that believe in it (most Gnostics and West Semitic Paganism, which also jad angels, being extinct), if our Lord was an archangel, He was a creature or a non-eternal emanation of God, in fact, the Gnostics explicitly believed our Lord was an emanation.

However, I accept as sincere Adventist claims that they believe Jesus Christ to be an Archangel and at the same time the eternal uncreated Son of God, because Ellen G. White, while clearly having some knowledge of ecclesiastical history (I believe she probably read Gibbon, or another account of the history of the Roman Empire, and Calvin's Institutes, in addition to certain other polemical works, predominantly I suspect by non-conforming English theologians of some learning and knowledge, like John Nelson Darby), she clearly did not study in any detail the history of religion; I think her knowledge of Paganism for example was probably limited to a comprehensive catalog of all the Pagan practices certain non-conforming, belligerent, radically anti-Catholic Protestant theologians from Great Britain, who actually had studied classical Paganism in Greek and Latin at Oxford or Cambridge in many if not most cases, ascribed to the Roman Catholic Church. But even if I am wrong and she herself conducted direct research into the theological concept of the angel as it appears in West Asian religions beginning, as far as we can tell, with Zoroastrianism, and which the Christians from the start accepted, I believe she would have rejected it as a pagan superstition and advanced her own idea of Jesus Christ as an uncreated God, angel and man, on the basis of her general spirit of defiance.

Most Adventists then follow this doctrine, and from that basis, they can sincerely worship Jesus Christ as both God and an angel, without realizing how these concepts are actually mutually exclusive; in some religions like Zoroastrianism, Gnosticism, Yarsanism or Yazidism, an angel is an emanation or reflection of God who might appropriately be given full divine honors and regarded as God, but is not the original God; there is always a sequence of events or a progression of reflections and emanations, or in Judeo-Christian angelology, the creation of angels and then their fall, a view later copied by Islam.

So I believe we should not accuse all Adventists of believing something many of them deny. Several of them however do actually reject the Trinity and the full eternal deity of our Lord, which was the historic, pre-Ellen White doctrine and which I believe is a logical implication of Adventism if evaluated through the lens of the ancient Church, but most of them either have not thought about it, or if they have, they have formed a sincere belief in the Trinity in which Jesus is also St. Michael amomg other things.

Now, here is where the real problem comes into play: even Adventists I think would agree that most angels are not human, and they are not God; they lack the divine nature and they also lack the human nature. It is also widely believed that they lack free will beyond the ability to have decided whether to rebel with Satan or remain with God.

The ecumemical councils of the ancient Church through careful study established definitively, supported by a balanced and consistent exegesis of the entire Bible, that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man. Adventism seems to propose that he is also fully an Angel.

But the nature of an Angel is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of man?

Also, there is another problem: why would Jesus need to be St. Michael? Why would Jesus Christ our Lord God Emanu-El (meaning God-With Us), being God incarnate, perfectly God and perfectly man, having risen from the dead into an incorruptible and perfected body of the new creation, which is still material, but which posesses attributes otherwise reserved for the angels, such as the ability to pass through closed doors, to appear suddenly, to levitate amd ascend into the clouds, et cetera, need to also have the attributes of an archangel like St. Gabriel?

For the purposes of physically fighting demons, if our Lord were to condescend to do it (and the harrowing of Hell doctrine suggests that he may have done so; recall the Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom "Hell is despoiled!"), Jesus Christ could do so either as a risen man, or as God, relying on His divine omnipotence. But in the New Testament, even before His resurrection, when he was united with us in our fallen and unglorified human nature, having put on corruptibility and mortality so as to trample down death by death, he easily prevailed over all demons, even against the direct temptations of Satan himself.

So, being God, I just don't see a reason why Jesus Christ would need to be St. Michael. The angels loyal to him did not fall and do not need saving; the demons fell in such a way that they are probably unsalvagable, and having become pure evil, God could not save them by becoming consubstantial with the good angels, since the demons had lost that nature, and God would not on the basis of His statements that light and darkness can have no fellowship become incarnate as a devil in order to save the other devils as He did the human race, and furthermore, unlike Origen or St. Gregory of Nyassa, who propose that God might save the devil and the demons by restoring all things using His omnipotence (apokatastasis), or Universalists, who believe that God will do these things inevitably, Adventists believe that the devils along with all of the unsaved sinners (including us, I think, for not observing the Sabbath) will be annhilated.

Anglicans have a model I like of basing doctrine on Scripture, Tradition and Reason. The proof-texts Adventists cite to support this view are eisegetical proof-texting, contradicted by the Bible when read as a whole, the doctrine does not accord with the traditional understanding of angelology as believed in by the ancient Church and all mainstream traditional churches today, and the doctrine is also Unreasonable because there is no need in the economy of salvation, no logical purpose for our Lord to be an angel, and the angelic nature, created, subordinate, lacking free will and not neccessarily created in the image of God (or bearing the image in a purely spiritual way), seems to be incompatible with both the divine and human natures of our Lord which were proven by the theologians of the early church and proclaimed by the great Ecumenical Councils which most Christians deliberately or consequentially follow.
 
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Commander Xenophon

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I'll pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ, you can pray to whomsoever you wish.---Michael your created angel, Mary, or any other dead person---doesn't matter to me.

I know that's what your Church teaches---it is not what the bible teaches---so you do whatever you want.

Wait, isn't Michael Jesus Christ? So according to your own theology if you pray to St. Michael, Jesus Christ or God the Father, or to God the Holy Spirit, you should in each case be praying to God, and if you pray to St. Michael or Jesus Christ directly you would also be addressing the same divine person of the Trinity, surely?

Also, let us accept your idea of soul sleep; the righteous are unconscious and cannot hear reauests for their intercession. That leaves the holy angels, who are conscience; why not ask the holy angels, the ones you don't believe to be God incarnate, like the Archangels Gabriel, Rafael and Uriel, or your guardian angel, or the supreme Cherubim and Seraphim, who are the most honorable and glorious angels, to pray to God on your behalf?

They are alive, they are with us, they are awake, they can hear us at any time and they are not God, so why not ask them just like you ask your church, your friends and your loved ones to pray for you?

If you ask an angel to help you, do you honestly believe he would refuse if your request was valid? Are we not promised in the Psalms that God will give his angels charge over us, that we should not dash our foot against a rock, but be protected in all our ways? Praying for someone is one of the best ways of protecting them, because God alone is omnipotent, so why not ask an angel, whether it is your guardian angel or any other, to pray to God for you?

Also, if you did not believe in soul sleep, surely it would ne worth asking Mary to pray for us? I mean, she was physically closer to God than anyone else. She had the privilege of giving birth to Him; of raising our little Lord Jesus, of caring for, living with, protecting and later being served by and saved by God Incarnate, the Son of God born of a woman, the divine Logos, very God of very God and the second Prosopon of the Trinity.
 
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Commander Xenophon

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Who is the angel of Rev 10? It is easily shown through text proofing that the attributes of this angel are those of Jesus...

Revelation 10:1-3
And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth:

There is your problem: proof-texting, eisegesis, reading one verse in isolation, instead of reading it in concord with all other verses of the Bible. A lot of SDA doctrine depends on eisegesis.

But here, even your eisegesis fails; the Apocalypse describes a mighty and magnificent angel, but it does not call that angel God or Jesus Christ or St. Michael. So that angel could be either/or, but nowhere does the text say both/and.

The clearest Christophany in the Apocalypse, other than when Jesus Christ speaks, is his appearance as the Lamb of God, which is reinforced by the exclamation of St. John the Baptist.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Now, here is where the real problem comes into play: even Adventists I think would agree that most angels are not human, and they are not God; they lack the divine nature and they also lack the human nature. It is also widely believed that they lack free will beyond the ability to have decided whether to rebel with Satan or remain with God.
Great reply, btw, I respect that you can see our perspective...

In reply to your above contention and that of others, that what are referred to as 'angels of the Lord' cannot be God, I direct your attention to Judges 13 and the story or Manoah and his wife. Here's the passage...

Judges 13:15-22
15 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.

16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord.

17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?

18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wonderously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.

20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.

21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord.

22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
 
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mmksparbud

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Wait, isn't Michael Jesus Christ? So according to your own theology if you pray to St. Michael, Jesus Christ or God the Father, or to God the Holy Spirit, you should in each case be praying to God, and if you pray to St. Michael or Jesus Christ directly you would also be addressing the same divine person of the Trinity, surely?

Also, let us accept your idea of soul sleep; the righteous are unconscious and cannot hear reauests for their intercession. That leaves the holy angels, who are conscience; why not ask the holy angels, the ones you don't believe to be God incarnate, like the Archangels Gabriel, Rafael and Uriel, or your guardian angel, or the supreme Cherubim and Seraphim, who are the most honorable and glorious angels, to pray to God on your behalf?

They are alive, they are with us, they are awake, they can hear us at any time and they are not God, so why not ask them just like you ask your church, your friends and your loved ones to pray for you?

If you ask an angel to help you, do you honestly believe he would refuse if your request was valid? Are we not promised in the Psalms that God will give his angels charge over us, that we should not dash our foot against a rock, but be protected in all our ways? Praying for someone is one of the best ways of protecting them, because God alone is omnipotent, so why not ask an angel, whether it is your guardian angel or any other, to pray to God for you?

Also, if you did not believe in soul sleep, surely it would ne worth asking Mary to pray for us? I mean, she was physically closer to God than anyone else. She had the privilege of giving birth to Him; of raising our little Lord Jesus, of caring for, living with, protecting and later being served by and saved by God Incarnate, the Son of God born of a woman, the divine Logos, very God of very God and the second Prosopon of the Trinity.


Jesus has many titles-- We pray to the title of Jesus Christ the Son of God--Yes they are the same. But it is your believe that Michael is a created angel, not ours so you are the one praying to a created being not us. I said, even if we did pray to ichel by that name and title, it would still be an uncreated Jesus Christ--to you, when you pray to Michel it is to a created being.---

But we do believe in soul sleep and this thread is about SDA believes, not yours. We pray TO God, not TO the dead nor TO the living, we ask prayer from the living, not FROM the dead. Now--the subject has been addressed and explained from our POV has it not??---Is there another question or do we flog this horse to death??
 
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NursingNinja

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This is a very interesting post; can you provide sources?

Of course, I have a blog post in the link below specifically on the Topic of Trinity in Seventh Day Adventism. I compare their fundamental belief to the Athanasian Creed.

https://actheologian.com/2016/06/27/the-lie-within-and-the-lie-without-the-holy-trinity/

Below is another post I did on the SDA Clear Word. This is more controversial, they claim it is not a "special bible" but they commissioned it, publish it, and sell it alongside other Bibles in the Adventist Book Center (ABC). It is helpful because you can see how they adjusted the verses of the Bible that teach the Trinity to match the teachings of Ellen White.

https://actheologian.com/2016/05/14/clear-word-vs-bible-doctrine-of-the-holy-trinity/


As for other details, SDA did start moving from a full blown Arian confession to one that is closer to the Trinity in 1946, that much is fair. They would only use the term "Godhead" but it was a step in the right direction. In 1980 they officially adopted the word "Trinity" but they still will not confess same substance or one being.

Below is a decent article I found for you that cites its sources:

http://www.cultorchristian.com/
 
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NursingNinja

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You were SDA---how long??---You do not seem to know or understand much---your first quote is so far off the mark---nobody has ever said that there were ONLY Sabbath keepers before Constantine. It is well known that there were some Christians who did not want to be associated with the Jews who decided to meet on Sundays which is what they had been doing before becoming Christians, it was sun worship they were used to---that is how it started and then Constantine did make it a law in order to bring in the sun worshipers along with the Christians----so I don't know where you get that idea of 100% uniformity of Sabbath keeping. The Sabbath is associated with the week of creation---that is it's origin and as SDA that is what we accept
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

which is why the 4th commandment says "Remember"---the Israelites were observing it before the 10 commandments were given to Moses--the observed it when the manna was given which was before the law was given.


As far as the Trinity is concerned---we most certainly believe in the Trinity. There is God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and yet they are one. How that is accomplished is not detailed and any church that says they have the absolute answer to that is making it up for the bible is not explicit on that point. All we know is they are 3 ---they are one---if there is something that you know different from the word of God then please provide the scriptures for it. It would be best if you provide support for your all your theories-----including those that you claim to be SDA believes.


I was raised SDA my whole life, grew up in their school system and everything. I only left just a few years ago. I think I am more than qualified to say what I was taught growing up in the Adventist system. They did teach uniformity of Sabbath keeping until Constantine. They also said that the "Pope changed the Sabbath". How could he change something that everyone was already doing? And is it the Pope or Constantine? Most protestants don't recognize a Pope until 50 to 100 years after Constantine. Ellen White was very clear that it was the Pope who changed the Sabbath, are you saying she was a false prophet by identifying Constantine instead? Just curious.

I would agree that SDA are not always consistent on what they believe and do teach different things as it suits them to do so. Remember I was also trained to water down my beliefs when speaking to "Sunday Keepers".

You would have to prove your claims too, please prove that Christians met on Sunday because of pagan sun worship. I would like to see that. Why not meet on Saturday because of Saturn worship for example? Your claim here is like saying since apples and oranges are round that means apples came from oranges, it is fair to ask for proof.

Even when Rome claims to have changed the Sabbath they mean Peter as they believe he was the first Pope. Even though I would disagree with them on some of the finer points of that designation, it is simply a historical fact that Sunday assembly came from Apostolic practice and teaching. There are many Ante-Nicene Church fathers that witness to Sunday Assembly and their reasons are clear. It wasn't as a Sabbath or as a means to replace it. The Sabbath was already obsolete (Hebrews 8:13)(Colosians 2:16-17)(Romans 14:5).

As for creation ordinance, the word Sabbath isn't even in Genesis and there is no command for man to keep it. God never issues it to Adam prescriptively for example, as he did with marriage. Also, there are many places in Genesis we would expect the Sabbath to come up if it was a thing but it doesn't. A good example is with Joseph when he goes into slavery. Egypt had a ten day work week at the time and Joseph was willing to go to prison over adultery but he never makes a single objection to working on the Sabbath.

We don't see the Sabbath being given to man until Exodus 16, the most likely referent for remember in the Decalogue is therefore Exodus 16. If you want more on this I recommend my blog post on the sabbath which you can find in the link below


https://actheologian.com/2015/09/18/the-sabbath/
 
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NursingNinja

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Ellen White was also a bit of a racist too, which should be expected considering the time that she lived in. But the problem is that she credits these things to God.


"You are the children of God. He has adopted you, and He desires you to form characters here that will give you entrance into the heavenly family. Remembering this, you will be able to bear the trials which you meet here. In heaven there will be no color line; for all will be as white as Christ himself. Let us thank God that we can be members of the royal family.”. Gospel Herald March 1, 1901, par. 20. Mrs. E.G. White in a talk given to the Vicksburg church for the colored, Sabbath, March 16, 1901, Gospel Herald


“The cities of the South are to be worked, and for this work the best talent is to be secured, and that without delay. Let white workers labor for the white people, proclaiming the message of present truth in its simplicity.They will find openings through which they may reach the higher class. Every opportunity for reaching this class is to be improved.

Let colored laborers do what they can to keep abreast, working earnestly for their own people. I thank God that among the colored believers there are men of talent who can work efficiently for their ownpeople, presenting the truth in clear lines. There are many colored people of precious talent who will be converted to the truth if our colored ministers are wise in devising ways of training teachers for the schools and other laborers for the field.

The colored people should not urge that they be placed on an equality with white people. The relation of the two races has been a matter hard to deal with, and I fear that it will ever remain a mostperplexing problem. So far as possible, everything that would stir up the race prejudice of the white people should be avoided. There is danger of closing the door so that our white laborers will not be able to work in some places in the South.

I know that if we attempt to meet the ideas and preferences of some of the colored people, we shall find our way blocked completely. The work of proclaiming the truth for this time is not to be hindered by an effort to adjust the position of the Negro race. Should we attempt to do this we should find that barriers like mountains would be raised to hinder the work that God desires to have done.” – Ellen White, Testimonies, Vol 9, Pg 214

“Where demanded by custom or where greater efficiency is to be gained, let the white believers and the colored believers assemble in separate places of worship.” Ellen White, Testimonies, Vol 9, Pg 208

“Opportunities are continually presenting themselves in the Southern States, and many wise, Christian colored men will be called to the work.But for several reasons white men must be chosen as leaders.” – Ellen White, Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 202

“No one is capable of clearly defining the proper position of the colored people.” – Ellen White, Testimonies Vol. 9, page 213 paragraph 4

“But there is an objection to the marriage of the white race with the black. All should consider that they have no right to entail upon their offspring that which will place them at a disadvantage; they have no right to give them as a birthright a condition which would subject them to a life of humiliation. The children of these mixed marriages have a feeling of bitterness toward the parents who have given them this lifelong inheritance. For this reason, if there were no other, there should be no intermarriage between the white and the colored race.” – Ellen White, Manuscript 7, 1896. Selected Messages Book 2, page 343, paragraph 2

“In reply to inquiries regarding the advisability of intermarriage between Christian young people of the white and black races, I will say that in my earlier experience this question was brought before me, and the light given me of the Lord was that this step should not be taken; for it is sure to create controversy and confusion. I have always had the same counsel to give. No encouragement to marriages of this character should be given among our people. Let the colored brother enter into marriage with a colored sister who is worthy, one who loves God, and keeps His commandments. Let the white sister who contemplates uniting in marriage with the colored brother refuse to take this step, for the Lord is not leading in this direction. Time is too precious to be lost in controversy that will arise over this matter. Let not questions of this kind be permitted to call our ministers from their work. The taking of such a step will create confusion and hindrance. It will not be for the advancement of the work or for the glory of God”. – Ellen White, Letter 36, 1912. Selected Messages, Book 2, page 344, paragraphs 1,2.

“You have no license from God to exclude the colored people from places of worship. Treat them as Christ’s property, which they are, just as much as yourselves. They should hold membership in the church with the white brethren. Every effort should be made to wipe out the terrible wrong [slavery] which has been done them. At the same time we must not carry things to extremes and run into fanaticism on this question. Some would think it right to throw down every partition wall and intermarry with the colored people, but this is not the right thing to teach or practice.” – Ellen White, The Southern Work, p. 15


Some SDA will try to tell you that they only accept some of her works as inspired and reject others. But the fact is that Ellen White claimed that all of her written words were inspired by God. So you are left with either accepting her or rejecting her on the whole. You cannot pick and choose.


“I wrote many pages to be read at your camp meeting. Weak and trembling, I arose at three o’clock in the morning to write you. God was speaking through clay. You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, It was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision-the precious rays of light shining from the throne.” (EGW, Selected Messages, bk. l, p. 27.)
 
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