An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

mmksparbud · Nov 6, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
My thesis statement does not address that issue. If you are interested in it then I suggest that you might take it up with EastCoastRemant. He is the one who has made the statement that we need to follow the example of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ did keep the Levitical commandments.

It then stands to reason that if we are to follow His example, we ought to keep the commandments He kept.

I am asking you. I know what he means. It is your judgement of what we ought to be keeping that I am asking about.

bbbbbbb · Nov 6, 2016

mmksparbud said:
I am asking you. I know what he means. It is your judgement of what we ought to be keeping that I am asking about.

I will start this second conversation as you have so kindly asked for my opinion. I still trust that EastCoastRemnant will respond to my thesis.

To answer your question, I am not aware that Jesus commanded those under the new covenant which was enacted through His own blood to obey any of the commandments of the previous covenant.

That said, if one does love God and his neighbor, which are fundamental elements of the new covenant. there is a lifetime of applications that flow from those. I am just starting to seriously work on loving my neighbor as myself.

mmksparbud · Nov 6, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
I will start this second conversation as you have so kindly asked for my opinion. I still trust that EastCoastRemnant will respond to my thesis.

To answer your question, I am not aware that Jesus commanded those under the new covenant which was enacted through His own blood to obey any of the commandments of the previous covenant.

That said, if one does love God and his neighbor, which are fundamental elements of the new covenant. there is a lifetime of applications that flow from those. I am just starting to seriously work on loving my neighbor as myself.

So how does that jive with what Rev says?
what commandments is it referring to?

bbbbbbb · Nov 6, 2016

mmksparbud said:
So how does that jive with what Rev says?
what commandments is it referring to?

There are some, such as the SDA, who take them to mean the Decalogue only. Another minority view is that it is the complete Law of Moses (as applicable, which opens quite a can of worms). Some others take it to mean the law that is innately within each person, as described by Paul in Romans 1. The view that most of my friends, as well as myself, subscribe to is the law of the New Covenant as described in Hebrews.

mmksparbud · Nov 6, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
There are some, such as the SDA, who take them to mean the Decalogue only. Another minority view is that it is the complete Law of Moses (as applicable, which opens quite a can of worms). Some others take it to mean the law that is innately within each person, as described by Paul in Romans 1. The view that most of my friends, as well as myself, subscribe to is the law of the New Covenant as described in Hebrews.

Which s what???

bbbbbbb · Nov 6, 2016

mmksparbud said:
Which s what???

Love.

mmksparbud · Nov 6, 2016

Commandments in Revelation equals love. Which is singular, Rev. states commandments--plural.
Which is what Jesus said when asked which was the greatest one and He answered with love God and love man---and He followed that with, on these 2 HANG all the commandments. Back to the 10, the 1st 4 of which describes how to love God, the last 6 how to love man.

bbbbbbb · Nov 6, 2016

mmksparbud said:
Commandments in Revelation equals love. Which is singular, Rev. states commandments--plural.
Which is what Jesus said when asked which was the greatest one and He answered with love God and love man---and He followed that with, on these 2 HANG all the commandments. Back to the 10, the 1st 4 of which describes how to love God, the last 6 how to love man.

Okay. Love is the fulfillment of the law. All of the commandments are fulfilled by love. So, pick and choose whatever commandments you wish and then fulfill that commandment with love. Without love, obedience to commandments is meaningless.

mmksparbud · Nov 6, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
Okay. Love is the fulfillment of the law. All of the commandments are fulfilled by love. So, pick and choose whatever commandments you wish and then fulfill that commandment with love. Without love, obedience to commandments is meaningless.

That is what it is all about--love. And we do as God almighty has commanded, when He wrote His laws on stone and in our hearts--He told us how to love Him and how to love each other with those laws. And it is the heart that Jesus will judge--His score card is simple, did they love Me, did they love others. And that is why I keep the Sabbath, because He said to, and if I love Him, I do what He says. Which is all Eve had to do, love God enough to do as He said by not eating from that stupid tree. I stay faithful to my husband and he to me out of love. We do the things the other likes out of love, not because we have to.

bbbbbbb · Nov 6, 2016

mmksparbud said:
That is what it is all about--love. And we do as God almighty has commanded, when He wrote His laws on stone and in our hearts--He told us how to love Him and how to love each other with those laws. And it is the heart that Jesus will judge--His score card is simple, did they love Me, did they love others. And that is why I keep the Sabbath, because He said to, and if I love Him, I do what He says. Which is all Eve had to do, love God enough to do as He said by not eating from that stupid tree. I stay faithful to my husband and he to me out of love. We do the things the other likes out of love, not because we have to.

Exactly. Thank you.

EastCoastRemnant · Nov 12, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
Exactly. Thank you.

So why isn't everyone observing the 4th Commandment? If done for the right reason, because we love the One who told us to keep it, then why is it so greivous to most Christians?

masmpg · Nov 12, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
Did Jesus Christ keep all of the Sabbath commandments and the dietary commandments?

Jesus kept the laws that Moses wrote in a book according to
Deuteronomy:31:24: "And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." This book contains the blessings and cursings of the levitical law found in Deuteronomy 27.
This is the book of the law that the Israelites were commanded to read by Hilkiah, and others throughout the old testament. This "book of the law" which does not contain the TEN commandments, is what Paul wrote about in Galatians:3:10: "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Jesus did not keep all the added pharisaical rules which were added after Moses.

masmpg · Nov 12, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
My thesis statement does not address that issue. If you are interested in it then I suggest that you might take it up with EastCoastRemant. He is the one who has made the statement that we need to follow the example of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ did keep the Levitical commandments.

It then stands to reason that if we are to follow His example, we ought to keep the commandments He kept.

The only commandments we do not have to "keep" are the ones that were "nailed to the cross" when Jesus died. Those were the ones that pointed to Jesus. The shadowy ceremonial laws and feast days that Jesus fulfilled. To think that health laws are only for the jews is like saying that our Creator has no interest in our health and well being when in fact we are told in 3John:1:2: "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." Almost the last book in the bible tells us to "be in health". The laws of cleanliness and health are for our good.

masmpg · Nov 12, 2016

bbbbbbb said:
Here is my thesis -

1. Jesus Christ lived a perfect, sinless life and never violated a single commandment from God.
2. There are some, such as the SDA, who assert that one is obligated to keep ten of God's commandments even as Jesus did.
3. These individuals insist, as has EastCoastRemnant, that we are to follow the example of Jesus.
4. These individuals have chosen, for reasons unknown to me, to redefine the life of Jesus Christ into one in which He observed only ten of God's commandments.
5. Therefore, they erroneously believe that by observing ten of God's commandments they are following the example of Jesus Christ faithfully.
6. My thesis is that they are doing nothing of the sort and are deceiving themselves if they think so.

I hope this is clear and understandable to you. If not, please let me know which part you do not understand.

Thank you.

I agree that Jesus never sinned according to the biblical definition of sin found in 1John:3:4: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." I am certain we can find some other definition from one of the counterfeit translations, but I know the Holy Spirit uses the KJV and has blessed it for over 400 years.
I agree that we do not have to follow all the ritualistic and ceremonial laws of the Jews, even though Jesus did. He fulfilled all the feast days and sacrificial obligations of the law.
As for following Jesus example in all things I do not say it Peter wrote it in 1Peter:2:21: "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" So according to Peter we are to follow His example of sinnlessness.

Please do not accuse the SDA denomination of changing any law, or reinterpreting them to fit any denominational tradition. SDA is the ONLY denomination that does not do that. The SDA denomination teaches that we are "saved" by grace but we are "judged" by our works. Works will not save us but without them we can be lost. Works and obedience are the fruit of faith not the access to salvation.

We keep the TEN commandments like Jesus did. Are there any other laws we are to keep besides God's law of love contained in the TEN commandments? We as a denomination promote health but do not make that a test of fellowship. Many SDAs eat meat.

You say "they are doing nothing of the sort and are deceiving themselves. . ." I would like to share a thought. Those who believe that somehow we are saved by grace and we have nothing more to do for our salvation, and they erroneously teach people the same. They teach that the God's holy just and good TEN commandments have been "nailed to the cross" and we need not obey them, and so forth. WHAT IF what we teach about obedience to all God commands of us today is wrong? Will we be condemned for it? I think not. BUT what if those who deceive people into believing that somehow God's law is "done away with" in some form and we need not obey for salvation, are wrong??? All those who have been deceived by this teaching will be lost.

I have tried every denomination just to end up in the SDA denomination, of which I will never be ashamed because I have studied God's holy word all my life and all my urgent biblical questions were answered, not by commandments of men, but by being patiently led to the truth in the bible about the issues I had. Every denomination I tried just brought up more issues, and unanswered bible verses that opinions cannot answer, not to my standard anyway. I will lay my life down in defense of the SDA denomination no matter how much satan attacks it.

EastCoastRemnant · Nov 13, 2016

masmpg said:
I agree that Jesus never sinned according to the biblical definition of sin found in 1John:3:4: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." I am certain we can find some other definition from one of the counterfeit translations, but I know the Holy Spirit uses the KJV and has blessed it for over 400 years.
I agree that we do not have to follow all the ritualistic and ceremonial laws of the Jews, even though Jesus did. He fulfilled all the feast days and sacrificial obligations of the law.
As for following Jesus example in all things I do not say it Peter wrote it in 1Peter:2:21: "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" So according to Peter we are to follow His example of sinnlessness.

Please do not accuse the SDA denomination of changing any law, or reinterpreting them to fit any denominational tradition. SDA is the ONLY denomination that does not do that. The SDA denomination teaches that we are "saved" by grace but we are "judged" by our works. Works will not save us but without them we can be lost. Works and obedience are the fruit of faith not the access to salvation.

We keep the TEN commandments like Jesus did. Are there any other laws we are to keep besides God's law of love contained in the TEN commandments? We as a denomination promote health but do not make that a test of fellowship. Many SDAs eat meat.

You say "they are doing nothing of the sort and are deceiving themselves. . ." I would like to share a thought. Those who believe that somehow we are saved by grace and we have nothing more to do for our salvation, and they erroneously teach people the same. They teach that the God's holy just and good TEN commandments have been "nailed to the cross" and we need not obey them, and so forth. WHAT IF what we teach about obedience to all God commands of us today is wrong? Will we be condemned for it? I think not. BUT what if those who deceive people into believing that somehow God's law is "done away with" in some form and we need not obey for salvation, are wrong??? All those who have been deceived by this teaching will be lost.

I have tried every denomination just to end up in the SDA denomination, of which I will never be ashamed because I have studied God's holy word all my life and all my urgent biblical questions were answered, not by commandments of men, but by being patiently led to the truth in the bible about the issues I had. Every denomination I tried just brought up more issues, and unanswered bible verses that opinions cannot answer, not to my standard anyway. I will lay my life down in defense of the SDA denomination no matter how much satan attacks it.

Amen brother.... well said.

Paul Yohannan · Nov 28, 2016

MarkRohfrietsch said:
Christ's resurrection made things new; in western Christianity the idea of "8th day" is a symbol of the new beginning for mankind; almost a new or recreation for mankind.

It is most common in western liturgical Churches for our baptismal fonts to express this symbolism by having 8 sides; a few examples:

The octagonal form is also common in EO and OO architecture, and furthermore, the EO practice of celebrating Pascha (or in monasteries, even the Eucharist) in the wee hours owes to symbolism regarding the Eighth Day, the dawn of a new creation.

Paul Yohannan · Nov 28, 2016

masmpg said:
Please do not accuse the SDA denomination of changing any law, or reinterpreting them to fit any denominational tradition. SDA is the ONLY denomination that does not do that.

I do not think it is fair or helpful to say "please do not accuse the SDA of X" while then going on in virtually the same breath to bash every other denomination. It is this extreme hostility on the part of some Adventists towards other Christians which makes me wary of Adventism as a whole.

masmpg · Nov 28, 2016

Paul Yohannan said:
I do not think it is fair or helpful to say "please do not accuse the SDA of X" while then going on in virtually the same breath to bash every other denomination. It is this extreme hostility on the part of some Adventists towards other Christians which makes me wary of Adventism as a whole.

You ought to see it from this side of the fence. There are far too many people like you who presume things that are just not so about the SDA denomination. Many will go to an SDA bash site and take everything they say as gospel. I really mean no offense in stating this Paul. I am constantly defending the SDA denomination from people whose opinions have turned them against the SDA denomination in a very hateful manner. The way I learned about the SDA denomination was after joining with them I go tired of hearing about Ellen White. So I read her writings to prove how wrong the church was for inciting a false prophet. I read her books very critically just to prove her wrong, but instead I was converted, and so will all those be who will read just one of her books, its a little book called steps to Christ. It takes about three-four hours to read. Unless people get an idea about who Ellen White actually is they need to just keep quiet. Bashing sites have no support for their hatred towards the truth. I have answered every one of the "index of errors" that this thread mentions. I suggest you go back and read what I wrote about these "errors". I can come up with myriad of errors which every denomination teach and believe, but I do not bash denominations. I just share truth about salvation issues mostly.

I have tried every mainstream denomination just to walk out with more questions then when I went in. I know what denominations teach, and if you think that exposing the truth through the bible is bashing them, well I suggest you look at how Jesus treated the pharisees, who were His church of His day. He called them hypocrites, and said their father is the devil. Go ahead and say I am not Jesus, but aren't we suppose to imitate Him as our ONLY example? Far too many just sit and say "I don't feel impressed to rebuke sin in the church". That is the reason the church, EVERY denomination, including SDA, is in the condition it is in. EVERY denomination is steeped in apostasy right now because every wind of doctrine is blowing and those who will only follow their leaders are blowing with them. It is now that we need most of all to stand on Jesus the solid rock through reading and studying His word continually. No pastor, Priest, evangelist, nor whole denomination will save us. We will all appear before the judgment seat alone to give account for what we have done to our bodies.

ViaCrucis · Nov 28, 2016

To be perfectly honest, before CF I never gave Adventism much thought, I was familiar with the history of the Millerites, and with some Adventist teachings. But had no negative views about the tradition.

I've never read an SDA bash site, so any negative views I have about Adventism today is based solely upon my encounters with Adventists here on CF. Seeing someone be mistaken about this or that point of history has never bothered me, and I've always been happy to correct those mistakes if I happen to be informed on the matter--and being informed on the matter has always been something I've strived to be. I have, over many years, been regularly challenged and had my own mistaken beliefs corrected and when choosing to do some objective research discovered that I was wrong. And I've sought to then incorporate that information and present it to others when I see them make mistakes or have wrong beliefs.

My largest criticism against Seventh Day Adventism is not that there is a recurring amount of misinformation, it's that this misinformation is treated as dogma. Adventism seems to require itself to be dogmatically wrong on a great deal many things. And then there is, frequently, straight up lies. I have consistently seen Adventists, in order to defend their own beliefs, not just be wrong, but lie; and when called out do not bother to acknowledge it, but merely go on repeating it anyway. I have seen frequent lies about Martin Luther, invoking him in order to defend various Adventist teachings--and, problematically, when Luther is actually quoted and shown to not say what is said, instead of accepting that, it is insisted upon anyway.

I have seen far too many Adventists engage in copy-pasta, ready-made arguments, parroting what they have been told to believe; insist on false information, insist on things which are objectively untrue, and straight up lie. And it all begins to blur together and look very much the same; as though it is merely following a play book.

So, no, I don't have any respect for Seventh Day Adventism if this is the way it encourages its members to believe and act. I have no respect for a denomination that depends on its members being deceitful, misinformed, or acting like mindless robots.

I don't read anti-SDA websites or books, I never have. So what I am talking about here is firsthand experience, not hearsay, not secondhand.

-CryptoLutheran

masmpg · Nov 28, 2016

I admit that there are some in the SDA denomination as in ALL denominations that will use deceptive tactics. But to judge the whole denomination because of what you see on the internet and not going to the source, well just doesn't seem fair to me. I have attended Lutheran church a few times but it wasn't for me. I had too many questions when I left, that they could not answer. I have found personally that the SDA denomination is the only denomination that does not limit the bible. Every denomination I have been part of limits the bible. What I mean by that is when something is found in the bible that does not agree with the church creed, or statement of faith they will disfellowship you without questioning the truth you discovered. The SDA denomination will study out any new light revealed before taking any kind of disciplinary measures. This was the plan from the beginning, like I stated ALL denominations are in deep apostasy. I believe that God's word is infinite. His church is progressive. Even though the disciples started the church with all the light it needed to bring it to the second coming of Jesus much of that truth was lost through the false teachers and apostasy that ensued. As the reformation tried to bring back some of those truths and did, like Martin Luther promoting "saved by grace", which I believe was the foremost reason the RCC disfellowshipped him. The reformation has not ended. Every denomination has their traditional dogmas, or creeds. The baptists have baptism by submersion, the calvinists (Methodists) pre destination, The Weslayans (presbyterians) once saved always saved (eternal salvation) and so forth, (I might have some in the wrong order). If one were to question those creeds the creeds would not be changed no matter what the bible says in MOST cases. The SDA denomination is just an extension of God's church which is still ongoing, and God will be revealing new things to us until Jesus comes to take His people home. Far too many whole denominations are guessing at what this or that verse means, like the "antichrist", or the mark of the beast. God is still revealing these things to His church. Soon enough people will realize the truth about the SUNday laws and the beast of revelation 13 and Daniel 7.

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