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An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

Original Happy Camper

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Was it a sin for Cain to murder Abel? If you answer yes then murder is wrong not because it was given in the Torah, but because murder is straight up always wrong. God didn't give the Torah until Sinai.



"Jesus also observed all of God's 613 mitzvot, because our Lord Jesus was an observant Jew".

-CryptoLutheran

"but because murder is straight up always wrong" How do you know this?

Jesus also observed all of God's 613 mitzvot, because our Lord Jesus was an observant Jew. Please provide Bibleical scripture for support of this statement.
 
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mmksparbud

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Was it a sin for Cain to murder Abel? If you answer yes then murder is wrong not because it was given in the Torah, but because murder is straight up always wrong. God didn't give the Torah until Sinai.



Jesus also observed all of God's 613 mitzvot, because our Lord Jesus was an observant Jew.

-CryptoLutheran

No He didn't keep all those others---He was accused of breaking them--they had added so much stuff to keeping even the Sabbath that picking the grain He ate as He walked through a field was breaking it. The 4th commandment said no such thing. He would not stone the woman caught in adultery.
Mat 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
He was considered unclean for 7 days for touching her, but he goes and touches 2 blind men
Mat 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.
Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

He kept the 10 commandments--highly selective about the rest.
 
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ViaCrucis

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No He didn't keep all those others---He was accused of breaking them--they had added so much stuff to keeping even the Sabbath that picking the grain He ate as He walked through a field was breaking it. The 4th commandment said no such thing. He would not stone the woman caught in adultery.
Mat 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
He was considered unclean for 7 days for touching her, but he goes and touches 2 blind men
Mat 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.
Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

He kept the 10 commandments--highly selective about the rest.

So God gave Israel all those commandments, and told them to keep them, and that said that His promises were about them keeping them. But Jesus, a Jew, God Himself, and the Messiah, He violated God's divinely given commandments.

But He kept ten of them, because those actually matter, for some reason. Even though no reason has been given.

That's an interesting argument.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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"but because murder is straight up always wrong" How do you know this?

Because murder isn't just wrong for Jews to commit, because Cain murdered Abel and God punished Cain, etc.

Jesus also observed all of God's 613 mitzvot, because our Lord Jesus was an observant Jew. Please provide Bibleical scripture for support of this statement.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-20

So you believe Jesus disobeyed God's commandments? That Jesus was a sinner? I didn't know that Adventists believed that the Son of God was a transgressor of the Law and a sinner, but thanks for informing me of that.


-CryptoLutheran[/QUOTE]
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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No He didn't keep all those others---He was accused of breaking them--they had added so much stuff to keeping even the Sabbath that picking the grain He ate as He walked through a field was breaking it. The 4th commandment said no such thing. He would not stone the woman caught in adultery.
Mat 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
He was considered unclean for 7 days for touching her, but he goes and touches 2 blind men
Mat 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.
Mat 9:28 And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord.
Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

He kept the 10 commandments--highly selective about the rest.

When He was accused of breaking these laws, he was always able to answer his accusers. It was not that He did not keep the law perfectly; rather that those who accused Him had an imperfect understanding of these laws and how to apply them; misunderstanding how the Law is to be applied is a common human flaw. One of the best studies of the miss application of the law can be found here (amazing what can be found when one looks): http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/WaltherLawAndGospel.pdf
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Because murder isn't just wrong for Jews to commit, because Cain murdered Abel and God punished Cain, etc.



"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:17-20

So you believe Jesus disobeyed God's commandments? That Jesus was a sinner? I didn't know that Adventists believed that the Son of God was a transgressor of the Law and a sinner, but thanks for informing me of that.


-CryptoLutheran
[/QUOTE]
Please answer the question put forth to you,"but because murder is straight up always wrong" How do you know this?
Where is it stated in the Bible that what Cain did required punishment other than the ten commandments.
You answer "Because murder isn't just wrong for Jews to commit, because Cain murdered Abel and God punished Cain, etc."
did not provide a Biblical answer.

Once again when you can not defend your position from the Bible you go into attack mode.
 
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mmksparbud

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So God gave Israel all those commandments, and told them to keep them, and that said that His promises were about them keeping them. But Jesus, a Jew, God Himself, and the Messiah, He violated God's divinely given commandments.

But He kept ten of them, because those actually matter, for some reason. Even though no reason has been given.

That's an interesting argument.

-CryptoLutheran


Not arguing---just presented the scriptures. What you mean no reason> They had imposed so many rules to everything, from the Sabbath, to ease of divorce to dealing with parents---rules, rules, rules that He had not imposed---the commandment was to keep the Sabbath holy, not doing your own pleasure or working--they dictated how many steps you could take! To this day, my Jewish friend separates her toilet paper sheets before Sabbath 'cause that would be work!!
Jesus kept the spirit of the Law as God intended--not all the stuff that got added or that didn't matter anymore. I didn't make up the fact He touched a dead body and was supposed to be unclean for 7 days but He went and touched two men's eyes. Why is what God wrote with His own hand, and placed under His mercy seat not of greater importance than things that were to be done way with mostly with the new covenant where the priesthood would no longer be needed and Jesus Himself would become the Only High Priest forever--why is that so hard to see?
Mat_9:14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
Mat_16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Mat_19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat_23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat_23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat_23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat_23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
 
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mmksparbud

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The commandment reads thou shalt not murder---there are degrees of killing--killing in the heat of passion, killing in self defense or to protect loved ones, killing to defend your nation--murder is premeditated and for selfish reasons and carry different penalties. Even man made laws make those differences. David was not allowed to build the temple for he was a man of war and had, indeed, murdered.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Please answer the question put forth to you,"but because murder is straight up always wrong" How do you know this?
Where is it stated in the Bible that what Cain did required punishment other than the ten commandments.
You answer "Because murder isn't just wrong for Jews to commit, because Cain murdered Abel and God punished Cain, etc."
did not provide a Biblical answer.

1) The Torah was not given until God made His covenant with the Israelites, which He gave to them. That they should be His people and dwell in the land which He had promised them.

"Moses convened all Israel, and said to them:

Hear, O Israel, the statutes and ordinances that I am addressing to you today; you shall learn them and observe them diligently. The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. Not with our ancestors did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today. The Lord spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the fire. (At that time I was standing between the Lord and you to declare to you the words of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;...

... You must follow exactly the path that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live, and that it may go well with you, and that you may live long in the land that you are to possess.
" - Deuteronomy 5:1-6,22

2) Without the Torah, there still existed a moral law; as can bee seen throughout the book of Genesis. Did God wipe out the land of Sodom and Gomorrah because the violated a Torah which He would not give until the days of Moses, or because even without Torah their works were wicked?

3) The Torah was not given to the nations, but to Israel,

Leviticus 26,

"He declares his word to Jacob,
his statutes and ordinances to Israel.
He has not dealt thus with any other nation;
they do not know his ordinances.
Praise the Lord!
" - Psalm 147:19-20

4) And yet God judged the nations for their wickedness, even without them having received His Torah, (Isaiah 13 and 15, etc)

Once again when you can not defend your position from the Bible you go into attack mode.

There's a significant amount of irony in accusing me of not defending my position from Scripture when I've been using Scripture, and in response all I've seen is attacks and an inability to defend your position from Scripture.

So where is your biblical evidence that the Son of God was a sinner who violated the commandments which He gave to Israel, which the Lord being a Jew, a child of Jacob, would have been by covenant required to obey and to not obey would have rendered Him a sinner?

Where is your biblical evidence that only ten of God's 613 commandments were to be obeyed?

Where is your biblical evidence that God expects those He didn't make a covenant or give His Torah to observe His Torah? Where did God expect the nations to observe His Sabbaths, His feast days, or bring their sacrifices to His Temple?

You have none, which is why you're not going to provide it, but you will insist that I'm "attacking" and don't have Scripture, even though the clear words of Scripture are there for anyone to read and see that what I'm saying is biblically accurate.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Not arguing---just presented the scriptures. What you mean no reason> They had imposed so many rules to everything, from the Sabbath, to ease of divorce to dealing with parents---rules, rules, rules that He had not imposed---the commandment was to keep the Sabbath holy, not doing your own pleasure or working--they dictated how many steps you could take! To this day, my Jewish friend separates her toilet paper sheets before Sabbath 'cause that would be work!!
Jesus kept the spirit of the Law as God intended--not all the stuff that got added or that didn't matter anymore. I didn't make up the fact He touched a dead body and was supposed to be unclean for 7 days but He went and touched two men's eyes. Why is what God wrote with His own hand, and placed under His mercy seat not of greater importance than things that were to be done way with mostly with the new covenant where the priesthood would no longer be needed and Jesus Himself would become the Only High Priest forever--why is that so hard to see?
Mat_9:14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
Mat_16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Mat_19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat_23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat_23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat_23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat_23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat_23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat_23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat_23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for adding to Torah and making excuses to not be obedient to it, and to place new structures and additions to place a heavy burden on the people.

Jesus didn't condemn the laws which God gave Israel, Jesus did not condemn God's Torah. "I did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets" "Not one jot or tittle will pass away".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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Jesus condemned the Pharisees for adding to Torah and making excuses to not be obedient to it, and to place new structures and additions to place a heavy burden on the people.

Jesus didn't condemn the laws which God gave Israel, Jesus did not condemn God's Torah. "I did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets" "Not one jot or tittle will pass away".

-CryptoLutheran


Not abolish--fulfill---the Levitical laws of the priesthood He fulfilled as our High Priest now--no priests needed anymore.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Not abolish--fulfill---the Levitical laws of the priesthood He fulfilled as our High Priest now--no priests needed anymore.

My point was that Jesus was clear that He did not come to abolish the Torah, and that not one jot or tittle of the Torah would pass away--that means all of God's commands, every last one. Not just ten of them.

Either all of the Torah remains or none of it remains.
Either Christians are to observe Torah or not.

One cannot say that Christians must observe the Sabbath but then say Christians don't have to observe the other 612 commandments. That's rank hypocrisy.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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Can't seem to state this correctly---The Torah consists of a lot of Levitical commandments---if there is no priesthood---those rules do not apply---the 10 commandments have no part in the Levitical priesthood. They are separate, whether you think so or not. Jesus never discussed those, only the 10.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jesus did not begin to list the over 600-He starts listing the 10---Rev doesn't mention a single one of the 600--just some of the 10--
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
There is no way that this is talking about rules that apply to the priesthood--it is about the 10 and those 10 are narrowed down unto 2 on which they hang---The 1st 4 deals with our relationship to God, the last six with man--
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Can't seem to state this correctly---The Torah consists of a lot of Levitical commandments---if there is no priesthood---those rules do not apply---the 10 commandments have no part in the Levitical priesthood. They are separate, whether you think so or not. Jesus never discussed those, only the 10.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jesus did not begin to list the over 600-He starts listing the 10---Rev doesn't mention a single one of the 600--just some of the 10--
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
There is no way that this is talking about rules that apply to the priesthood--it is about the 10 and those 10 are narrowed down unto 2 on which they hang---The 1st 4 deals with our relationship to God, the last six with man--
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" isn't one of the 10 commandments, it's one of those Levitical commandments. Leviticus 19:18 specifically.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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And it's not as though this is something new---the founding fathers of this country when speaking of the commandments, never once meant the over 600, when they hung the commandments on the walls of courthouses, it was not the 600, it was the 10, when you look up simply the word "commandments"---it only talks about the 10 unless it is a Jewish site. The Pilgrims and Puritans and Amish and any other denomination, including the Catholic Church or --imagine that--Lutheran--all of them referred to the 10---it's kind of hard to write over 600 in the heart---it's just the 4th that everyone has a problem with, not the other 9. Have never heard anyone say that adultery has been done away with, or stealing (though by today's standards you'd think so!!)-certainly not murder, not taking the Lords name in vain-----actually--I was wrong---there are 8 that are not a problem--the Sabbath and graven images are both a problem for some churches! These 2 are the only ones argued about. The other ones are even expounded on--as Jesus did--for if you hate-you are a murderer and if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you're an adulterer. These 2 however, everyone wants to whittle down and carve up and make excuses for---the others they'll broaden.
 
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mmksparbud

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"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" isn't one of the 10 commandments, it's one of those Levitical commandments. Leviticus 19:18 specifically.

-CryptoLutheran

:doh:I didn't say it was!! I said Jesus said on these 2 hang all the law and He narrowed the 10 down to those 2-- geez--what is that--1 out of 613?
 
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ViaCrucis

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:doh:I didn't say it was!! I said Jesus said on these 2 hang all the law and He narrowed the 10 down to those 2-- geez--what is that--1 out of 613?

He didn't narrow down the 10, He narrowed down all 613.

"What is the greatest commandment?" That is, of all 613 commandments which God gave, which is most important? A question often asked of rabbis, and Jesus gives a rabbinical answer in His response.

This continues to be the fundamental problem, pretending that God's law only contains the Decalogue.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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He didn't narrow down the 10, He narrowed down all 613.

"What is the greatest commandment?" That is, of all 613 commandments which God gave, which is most important? A question often asked of rabbis, and Jesus gives a rabbinical answer in His response.

This continues to be the fundamental problem, pretending that God's law only contains the Decalogue.

-CryptoLutheran

Pretending??---That is of course, your opinion that He was talking about all 600---the ones He had mentioned where only the 10--but you go right ahead and think what you will. However, I wonder why Luther, and the Catholics, and the Baptists all think the same way and never mentioned the other 600 when they hung the 10 commandments on courthouses and their homes--and certainly when Rev talks about keeping His commandments, are you saying it means we should be keeping all 600 then?---That, of course, is silly. Most of them involved sacrificing animals. Now if you think that is what is means, then you go right ahead and keep all 600--pretty exhausting I would think.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Pretending??---That is of course, your opinion that He was talking about all 600---the ones He had mentioned where only the 10--but you go right ahead and think what you will. However, I wonder why Luther, and the Catholics, and the Baptists all think the same way and never mentioned the other 600 when they hung the 10 commandments on courthouses and their homes--and certainly when Rev talks about keeping His commandments, are you saying it means we should be keeping all 600 then?---That, of course, is silly. Most of them involved sacrificing animals. Now if you think that is what is means, then you go right ahead and keep all 600--pretty exhausting I would think.

For the covenant God made with Israel, He gave them 613 commandments, not just 10. These are the commandments of His Torah.

The reason why Christians don't offer sacrifices, don't follow the dietary laws, and don't observe the Jewish Sabbath is because that Torah was given exclusively to the Jews as part of the covenant God made with them. That is made abundantly clear in both the Old and New Testament, this was the fundamental issue in the Gentile Controversy and St. Paul's ongoing struggle against the Judaizers; it is why Paul is clear that feast days, sabbaths, etc were all shadows that pointed toward the fuller reality of Christ, it is why the author of Hebrews is emphatic about how the new covenant established in Christ is not like the former covenant God made with ancient Israel.

The Sabbath was never for anyone but the Jews. It wasn't for the Assyrians, it wasn't for the Egyptians, it wasn't for the Moabites, it wasn't for the Babylonians. It was for the covenant nation, Israel, as part of the national covenant which God made with them. That's something, by the way, that both Jews and Christians have always understood--and it is one of the very few things that Jews and Christians do happen to agree upon historically.

So no, I'm not saying Christians should observe the Torah--that's kind of my point, the Torah isn't for us. I am not part of the covenant which God made with the Israelites on the mountain.

And yes, Christians have historical looked to the Decalogue as a summary of God's Law; and yet have never understood the mitzvah concerning the Sabbath to mean that Christians are to observe the Sabbath. Here is how Luther comments on the 3rd Commandment in the Large Catechism:

"The Third Commandment.

78] Thou shalt sanctify the holy day. [Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.]

79] The word holy day (Feiertag) is rendered from the Hebrew word sabbath which properly signifies to rest, that is, to abstain from labor. Hence we are accustomed to say, Feierabend machen [that is, to cease working], or heiligen Abend geben [sanctify the Sabbath]. 80] Now, in the Old Testament, God separated the seventh day, and appointed it for rest, and commanded that it should be regarded as holy above all others. As regards this external observance, this commandment was given to the Jews alone, that they should abstain from toilsome work, and rest, so that both man and beast might recuperate, and not be weakened by unremitting labor. Although they afterwards restricted this too closely, and grossly abused it, so that they traduced and could not endure in Christ those works which they themselves were accustomed to do on that day, as we read in the Gospel; just as though the commandment were fulfilled by doing no external, [manual] work whatever, which, however, was not the meaning, but, as we shall hear, that they sanctify the holy day or day of rest.

82] This commandment, therefore, according to its gross sense, does not concern us Christians; for it is altogether an external matter, like other ordinances of the Old Testament, which were attached to particular customs, persons, times, and places, and now have been made free through Christ.

83] But to grasp a Christian meaning for the simple as to what God requires in this commandment, note that we keep holy days not for the sake of intelligent and learned Christians (for they have no need of it [holy days]), but first of all for bodily causes and necessities, which nature teaches and requires; for the common people, man-servants and maid-servants, who have been attending to their work and trade the whole week, that for a day they may retire in order to rest and be refreshed.

84] Secondly, and most especially, that on such day of rest (since we can get no other opportunity) freedom and time be taken to attend divine service, so that we come together to hear and treat of God's Word, and then to praise God, to sing and pray.

85] However, this, I say, is not so restricted to any time, as with the Jews, that it must be just on this or that day; for in itself no one day is better than another; but this should indeed be done daily; however, since the masses cannot give such attendance, there must be at least one day in the week set apart. But since from of old Sunday [the Lord's Day] has been appointed for this purpose, we also should continue the same, in order that everything be done in harmonious order, and no one create disorder by unnecessary innovation.

86] Therefore this is the simple meaning of the commandment: since holidays are observed anyhow, such observance should be devoted to hearing God's Word, so that the special function of this day should be the ministry of the Word for the young and the mass of poor people; yet that the resting be not so strictly interpreted as to forbid any other incidental work that cannot be avoided.

87] Accordingly, when asked, What is meant by the commandment: Thou shalt sanctify the holy day? answer: To sanctify the holy day is the same as to keep it holy. But what is meant by keeping it holy? Nothing else than to be occupied in holy words, works, and life. For the day needs no sanctification for itself; for in itself it has been created holy [from the beginning of the creation it was sanctified by its Creator]. But God desires it to be holy to you. Therefore it becomes holy or unholy on your account, according as you are occupied on the same with things that are holy or unholy.

88] How, then, does such sanctification take place? Not in this manner, that [with folded hands] we sit behind the stove and do no rough [external] work, or deck ourselves with a wreath and put on our best clothes, but (as has been said) that we occupy ourselves with God's Word, and exercise ourselves therein.

..."

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mmksparbud

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LOL---Not one time does Rev state --"Jews, if you love me keep my commandments!!"-----And it doesn't matter to me which day of the week the Sabbath is--it could be Thursday for all I care---who it does matter to is God---He says, the 7th day, and I am not going to argue with Him--you go right ahead and do so! I also don't care who does what when--so someone decided back when to keep the 1 day of the week--well, fine and dandy, I personally don't mind being the only one in the entire world that keeps it and everybody and their mother keeps some other day!!--my bible still says the 7th and so that I will do. I don't mind if St. soso back in 231 and all his followers decided something different. Don't care what mental gymnastics they or anyone else does to get around this. God says the 7th day, and the 7th day it is. He can tell me I'm wrong come judgement day---I'd rather have Him say "You didn't really have to do that" than--"What part of Remember didn't you understand? "Now, you just give me the verse that states, My 4th, fourth, IV, (you can call it the 18th I don't care--it is the 4th according to the bible and so it stays)"From now on, the Sabbath has been changed from the 7th day to the 1st day in honor of my resurrection--the 7th is for the Jews only"" and my stand changes. I haven't found that verse. All murderers can't enter heaven (unrepentant)--doesn't say all non Jewish murderers can't get to heaven, not one commandment ever has said--this is for Jews only--the rest of you can go ahead and steal, lie, dishonor your parents.........Let me know when you find that. Let me know where it says only Jews will keep the Sabbath--for what I read says that the mixed multitude that the Jews came with, kept the Sabbath and everything else and the 4th says the stranger that is within thy gates. Like I said countless times---keeping all the commadments will not let you enter God's presence--breaking them will keep you away. What we do we do to honor God and respect man--Love is the operative word and God alone can judge the motive of the heart.
 
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