An Experiment?

[Smilin]

Originally posted by OneLargeToe
Same deal with using a god to explain the beginning.  What or who created god?  We've been down this road before, of course, but saying a god created everything is, in my opinion, a very empty and meaningless answer.

Well OLT,

If you don't accept that God exists, nor believe the writings of the bible, then it is meaningless to you.  I can relate.  I've left Christianity several times for different reasons.  Yet for those of us who do believe in a creator, and do search the religious texts (including the original manuscripts) for answers, we find that God always is, always was, and always will be.  I know you reject this, but that is what the scriptures tell us.  Do I comprehend that statement? No, of course not.  No human can comprehend eternity...that is to say: no beginning or no ending.

Now, keep in mind, some of us aren't threatoned with science.  Evolution, the age of the earth, the fossil record, the age of the universe...etc. etc. doesn't challenge my faith.  I believe (as a matter of faith alone) there is a creator, yet I do not alter science to fit my religious convictions.

Many Regards,

Smilin

 

[lithium.]

You must know more than your telling.

Or do you really have no idea and no answers?

Sorry but that was a joke. It must have went over your head or it (the joke) was just stupid. Anyway I have no idea how the big bang really happened only theory.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Morat
Um, no. Where on earth did you get this?

Special report on the news the other night.  The side effects from the small pox vaccine is unacceptable in terms of what is currently accepted with modern day vaccines.

 

[OneLargeToe]

I think Stormy is just being sarcastic and implying that the "science-minded" people claim to know everything.

 

[Smilin]

ahhhh the 'Ultimate Truth' scenario again..
I started a thread on this...seeking who possessed it..
(i've seen a lot of references to it in here..yet still waiting on where to find it)

i'd REALLY like some answers...lol

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Stormy

I was told that you people debate day after day.

I was told that you all claim to know the answers that I seek.

Then you were told wrong. I don't know the answers, although I have personal beliefs which I cannot support. Most scientists do not even pretend to have answers for many of these questions - they merely observe that they know things which contradict some of the answers given.

If someone were to say "The answer is that Stormy was created, complete and with memories as if she had been alive, last Tuesday, but the rest of us have been around for a year or so", I could argue that this is inconsistent, because I have evidence of Stormy existing before last Tuesday.

If someone says "the world was poofed into existance last Tuesday", I can observe that, if so, it was created *as though* it had always been around, so I might as well *act* as though it's been around a lot longer.

Given that, the best evidence I have suggests that the universe as we understand it has been around for a bit over ten billion years, but I have no obvious answer as to "what caused that", and that life formed on this planet many millions of years ago; I have no idea how it got started, but I have a pretty good idea on how, once there was life at all, it grew and changed into the diversity we see today.

Where did I come from? Where did my home ... Earth come from?

I am very happy here and it seems like I should thank someone.

This is a human instinct which is not always correct. We tend to attribute happenings to actors, and sometimes we're just plain wrong in doing so.

The fact that we *feel* like thanking someone isn't evidence. It may be reason enough to go ahead and try, but it's hard to describe what this entity would be like.

Doing so, in any event, moves us from "knowledge" to "belief" and from "certainty" to "faith". I'm fine with that, but some people would rather say "I don't know yet" than say "I am sure of this" and risk being wrong. It is an honest and admirable position to hold.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by OneLargeToe
I think Stormy is just being sarcastic and implying that the "science-minded" people claim to know everything.

Some of them do.

I think they're wrong for the same reasons I think that some religious people are wrong.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by seesaw
Sorry but that was a joke. It must have went over your head or it (the joke) was just stupid. Anyway I have no idea how the big bang really happened only theory.

ummm...seesaw..

stick with science, basketball, or cosmetology..errr cosmology...sorry...

comedian yah ain't...

 

[lithium.]

Originally posted by Smilin

comedian yah ain't...

I have to agree.

 

[Morat]

Special report on the news the other night. The side effects from the small pox vaccine is unacceptable in terms of what is currently accepted with modern day vaccines

Certainly. However, modern vaccines don't (for the most part) protect children against life-threatening illnesses.

If, in a given year, the MMR vaccine kills 5 children, whereas in a totally unvacinnated population MMR combined would only kill 2 people, then the associated costs (at least mortality) are too high.

However, if a smallpox outbreak would kill roughly 65,000 people, if localized, whereas nationwide vacination would only kill 25 or so, then the question becomes "How likely is even a small outbreak?"

MMR, Chickenpox, and the rest aren't nearly as lethal as smallpox.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by Morat
Certainly. However, modern vaccines don't (for the most part) protect children against life-threatening illnesses.

If, in a given year, the MMR vaccine kills 5 children, whereas in a totally unvacinnated population MMR combined would only kill 2 people, then the associated costs (at least mortality) are too high.

However, if a smallpox outbreak would kill roughly 65,000 people, if localized, whereas nationwide vacination would only kill 25 or so, then the question becomes "How likely is even a small outbreak?"

MMR, Chickenpox, and the rest aren't nearly as lethal as smallpox.

True,

Nationwi

According to the news report: Nationwide vaccination would kill (estimated) 1-5 people per million.  Another couple hundred (give or take) per million suffer irreversible side effects.  In a smallpox outbreak 1 in 5 die. The remainder are usually horribly scarred for life. 

The debate though is this:  Should we deal with the risks of vaccination out of simple fear?  We have no proof (yet) of any nation possessing the virus with the intent of using it against us.

 

[Humanista]

Originally posted by Stormy
Then give me a full and meaningful answer.

Why is everyone keeping secrets?

I was told that you people debate day after day.

I was told that you all claim to know the answers that I seek.

Where did I come from? Where did my home ... Earth come from?

I am very happy here and it seems like I should thank someone.

Your original post says you are posing as an intelligent person. However, your questions are rather child-like, as are your responses. You almost sound like a person who has lived in a cave with no exposure to the world, or an alien from another planet.

To truly answer your questions would involve a long process of education, as your persona foar this thread appears to know practically nothing about the world, science, religion, etc.

No one is keeping any secrets, by the way. Knowledge about science is available to anyone who seeks it.

 

 

[Stormy]

Originally posted by Humanista
Your original post says you are posing as an intelligent person. However, your questions are rather child-like, as are your responses. You almost sound like a person who has lived in a cave with no exposure to the world, or an alien from another planet.

To truly answer your questions would involve a long process of education, as your persona foar this thread appears to know practically nothing about the world, science, religion, etc.

No one is keeping any secrets, by the way. Knowledge about science is available to anyone who seeks it.

 

Intelligence has nothing to do with acquired learning.

In this thread I was placing myself open and vulnerable to those who do not have a concept of God. I was willing to allow them, without any religious prejudice from me, to explain exactly how God is not needed.

No one even tried.

Atheist tell me my answer is wrong.

But yet they have none.

Evolution if true... was nothing more than a tool used by God.

How long before they understand?

 

[seebs]

Stormy, there's a problem with your experiment. You start by assuming that every question *always* has an answer we can know.

If an atheist honestly tells you that his answer is "I don't know, and I don't think I can know", then he's successfully met the test; he's shown you a belief system that doesn't depend on a First Cause, because he's willing to admit there are answers he doesn't have.

Saying "I have an answer" doesn't make your answer the truth. I happen to believe your answer to be correct, but that doesn't mean it's logically necessary.

 

[Warrior FC]

I believe Stormy is trying to get straight answers here, and finding none!

.... And *Warrior says smiling* "we are aliens, this world is not our home!"

 

[lithium.]

I think if the big bang theory if true, and if the theory of evolution is true, then there really is no reason for a god. Sure we don't know how the big bang happened, but that doesn't mean it was a god.

But that is just my opinion which a lot of you will disagree on.

 

[Warrior FC]

yes, dis-agreed!

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Warrior FC
I believe Stormy is trying to get straight answers here, and finding none!

There are questions which have no answer.

 

[Stormy]

Originally posted by seebs
There are questions which have no answer.

God has all the answers.

I think you mean that there are questions that we can not answer.

 

[Stormy]

Originally posted by seesaw
I think if the big bang theory if true, and if the theory of evolution is true, then there really is no reason for a god. Sure we don't know how the big bang happened, but that doesn't mean it was a god.

But that is just my opinion which a lot of you will disagree on.

Show me cause.