An Example?

[Reformationist]

But you still miss the point. If you go against what you want in order to do that which you believe God has told you, your own desire is factually to serve God. That cannot be disputed. Your desire to serve God was greater than your desire to serve self.

How is it that you are not understanding this very logical and simple concept?

I agree completely and am quite relieved to find that I am not the only one to find this such a simple concept.

Thank you for voicing your support of this premise Asaph.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

Ummm...I would like to tell everyone that their position on this issue is relevent and appreciated. I don't agree with Ainesis, nor do I think she has thought her position through but I certainly don't get the feeling that her position is the product of pride.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion so far and would hate to see it degenerate into an argument. I apologize if anything I have said has caused this to go beyond an amicable discussion and border on an argument and would ask that we all consider our tone.

If I am responding in an ungodly manner, please feel free to PM me, or even do it publically. I just ask that you do so gently because I'm a weak man at times and I'd hate to disregard a valid rebuke simply because of the tone.

Anyway, thank you all and I pray that this can continue in the same, honest vein it has up until this point.

God bless

 

[Asaph]

Ummm...I would like to tell everyone that their position on this issue is relevent and appreciated. I don't agree with Ainesis, nor do I think she has thought her position through but I certainly don't get the feeling that her position is the product of pride.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion so far and would hate to see it degenerate into an argument. I apologize if anything I have said has caused this to go beyond an amicable discussion and border on an argument and would ask that we all consider our tone.

If I am responding in an ungodly manner, please feel free to PM me, or even do it publically. I just ask that you do so gently because I'm a weak man at times and I'd hate to disregard a valid rebuke simply because of the tone.

Anyway, thank you all and I pray that this can continue in the same, honest vein it has up until this point.

God bless

I sometimes forget that people get upset if I hint or even outright say that they are being prideful. I have come to believe that the vast majority of my own failings, if not all of them, come ultimately from that one thing within me and I know it is not from my new man but the old. It is my habit to readily admit it when I see it within myself so then God can deal with it, and I just supposed it was the same for most of us. (I should actually say it is my usual desire to readily admit it. Other times just call me granite head. )

I apologize Ainesis if you were offended by it. Please forgive me.


Asaph

 

[Telrunya]

I completely understand but desire and hope are two different things. It's clear that your desire to have a relationship with your father superceded your desire to not subject yourself to that same situation. And, when you felt that nothing had changed, nor would change, you no longer desired to be in that situation more than you desired to get out of it. Then what happened? You left.

God bless

Well on this matter I have to disagree with you and bow out of the discussion. Both you and Asaph can turn this matter in a circular motion to get your point across but it really doesnt apply to this situation. I can't really explain the mindset of an abused to the abuser. You and Asaph both keep intimating that I had a desire for a relationship with my father. True only in part. My desire to stay away from that situation and that person has always been greater. My desire to leave from working with my father was extremely greater than my desire to continue the entire time I worked for him. You simply can't understand the revulsion one feels unless you have gone through that and I pray that no one ever has to do such a thing. So the question is why, if my desire to leave was so great, did I stay? I have seen so many people who have similar backgrounds to mine that use it as an excuse for adictive behaviors or commiting the same or worse atrocities on other people. I decide my own destiny. I refuse to be controled by circumstance or other people's actions. I believe we can all choose to do so. It's a matter of will over desire. If my desire was so great to have a relationship with my father I would still be trying in some capacity to have that relationship. I am not. Thanks for your input and insight, but as I said at the begining, I disagree.

 

[Reformationist]

Well on this matter I have to disagree with you and bow out of the discussion. Both you and Asaph can turn this matter in a circular motion to get your point across but it really doesnt apply to this situation. I can't really explain the mindset of an abused to the abuser. You and Asaph both keep intimating that I had a desire for a relationship with my father. True only in part. My desire to stay away from that situation and that person has always been greater. My desire to leave from working with my father was extremely greater than my desire to continue the entire time I worked for him. You simply can't understand the revulsion one feels unless you have gone through that and I pray that no one ever has to do such a thing. So the question is why, if my desire to leave was so great, did I stay? I have seen so many people who have similar backgrounds to mine that use it as an excuse for adictive behaviors or commiting the same or worse atrocities on other people. I decide my own destiny. I refuse to be controled by circumstance or other people's actions. I believe we can all choose to do so. It's a matter of will over desire. If my desire was so great to have a relationship with my father I would still be trying in some capacity to have that relationship. I am not. Thanks for your input and insight, but as I said at the begining, I disagree.

Okay, well, thank you for voicing your disagreement. Differences of opinion, in my experience, are what leads to new and further understandings of what we believe. That, to me, is a good thing.

I know you said you are going to bow out but, one comment in case you change your mind. My point was not so much that the desire that prompted your working with/being around your father had to necessarily be a desire for a relationship with him. I was merely pointing out that a desire, whatever it may be, prompted you to do so. Unless your choice to work with/be around your father was an arbitrary one, something caused you to make it. Maybe it was simply a desire to find out if anything had changed. Maybe it was a desire to see if you still felt revulsion toward your father. Maybe it was a desire to feel that you are "in control of your own destiny." Whatever it may be, unless our choices are arbitrary, they are prompted by a cause. Your will, in and of itself, does not move itself. It is moved according to what we want. Judging by the tone I perceive in your claim that I am turning this into "a circular motion to get my point across" you may not yet be ready to address this issue in a strictly logical fashion. Either way, I do appreciate your input and pray that God gives you peace about your father and gives your father a repentant attitude about his past wrongdoings.

God bless

 

[Asaph]

But the choice you made was absolutely in line with some desire you had. Whatever that might have been is only speculation on my part, but let's say for arguements sake that your greatest desire at that point was to have a normal loving relationship with your father. You would have been willing then to make the choice to align yourself with him in this business venture in order to give that an opportunity to happen. Your desire determined your choice, not the other way around.

Asaph

Telrunya,

Because you included my own name in that post I must remind you of what I actually said. Look clearly at what I said. Had you been specific, I can guarantee you I would have been specific.

Please do not malign me for what you did not say.

That being said, you still only did what your own desire was to do. If you will not admit that desire, it still has no bearing what so ever on the facts.

Asaph

 

[Reformationist]

That being said, you still only did what your own desire was to do. If you will not admit that desire, it still has no bearing what so ever on the facts.

Asaph

Probably goes without saying but, I agree with you.

God bless