An example of how the whole law cannot be practiced today (discussion)

[Studyman]

As priests were innocent when they were breaking Sabbath in the temple, so also Jesus and His people are innocent, because Jesus is more than temple.

The Priests were not breaking God's Law, they were obeying God's Law. God's LAWs for the Priests were different than God's Laws for women or for Non-Priests. This is simply Biblical Truth.

Jesus was God's Priest.

Thats the point of the story. Keep it simple.

That's "your" point, it wasn't Jesus', at least not the Jesus of the Bible. God's sabbath was made for man. Not for man to reject or pollute, but to keep Holy. Walking in fellowship with the Christ on God's Sabbath, and picking a blackberry to eat along the way, is not "Un-Holy". Just as what David and God's Priest did was not "Un-holy".

4 And the priest answered David, and said, There is no common bread under mine hand, but there is hallowed bread; if the young men have kept themselves at least from women.

5 And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel.

The Scriptures mean something, at least they do to me.

Our bodies are the temple know and we are priests and kings. We cannot be guilty of breaking the Sabbath, even if the Mosaic law applied to as (but does not, anyway).

Religious men, like the Pharisees have their religion, but the Christ of the Bible promoted the "Way of the Lord". Eve was also convinced that God's LAW didn't apply to her. It is a popular and seductive religious philosophy since the very beginning. But a philosophy the Jesus of the bible did not promote, in my view.

 

[trophy33]

The Priests were not breaking God's Law, they were obeying God's Law. God's LAWs for the Priests were different than God's Laws for women or for Non-Priests. This is simply Biblical Truth.

Jesus was God's Priest.



That's "your" point, it wasn't Jesus', at least not the Jesus of the Bible. God's sabbath was made for man. Not for man to reject or pollute, but to keep Holy. Walking in fellowship with the Christ on God's Sabbath, and picking a blackberry to eat along the way, is not "Un-Holy". Just as what David and God's Priest did was not "Un-holy".

4 And the priest answered David, and said, There is no common bread under mine hand, but there is hallowed bread; if the young men have kept themselves at least from women.

5 And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel.

The Scriptures mean something, at least they do to me.



Religious men, like the Pharisees have their religion, but the Christ of the Bible promoted the "Way of the Lord". Eve was also convinced that God's LAW didn't apply to her. It is a popular and seductive religious philosophy since the very beginning. But a philosophy the Jesus of the bible did not promote, in my view.

"They said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

And Jesus argues:

"...Haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and yet are innocent? But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

If only you had known the meaning of ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
Mt 12:2-8

As priests in the temple were breaking the Sabbath, but they were innocent, because of the priority of the temple, so also Jesus and His disciples are innocent when breaking sabbath, because Jesus is more than the Jewish temple. Jesus is so great that He is also the Lord of the Sabbath.

Thats the point of the story, if you do not insert anything into it. If the sabbath observing was still in place (it is not), we, as priests, could break it anytime we needed, because we are not only His priests, but even the temple of God.

 

[Studyman]

"They said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

Yes, the children of the devil came to Jesus and said “Look, Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

And Jesus argues:

"...Haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and yet are innocent? But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

If only you had known the meaning of ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
Mt 12:2-8

The Priests were instructed to do "works" to provide for the mercy of God.

As priests in the temple were breaking the Sabbath, but they were innocent, because of the priority of the temple,

No, that is you adding your own bias against God's Sabbath. The Priests were obeying God's instruction for Priests.

so also Jesus and His disciples are innocent when breaking sabbath, because Jesus is more than the Jewish temple. Jesus is so great that He is also the Lord of the Sabbath.

You are cherry picking Scriptures in order to preserve your own bias against God's Laws. It's very common, the mainstream preachers of Jesus time did the same thing. Jesus said the Sabbath HE is Lord of, was made for man. Not for man to pollute or reject, but to keep Holy.

Here is the Christ of the Bible telling you this "where HE was before".

Is. 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

He also warns, after HE became a man, that "many" who call HIM Lord, Lord, but are not "doers" of His Sayings, but hearers only, HE doesn't know.

He also said;

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

For me, it is important to consider "ALL" of the Christ's Words, as HE instructs. Just because you may not believe Him, or the Word's His Father sent Him to speak, doesn't make HIS Words Void, in my view.

Thats the point of the story, if you do not insert anything into it. If the sabbath observing was still in place (it is not), we, as priests, could break it anytime we needed, because we are not only His priests, but even the temple of God.

I understand this is a popular religious teaching from this world's religions, I simply believe what the Christ of the Bible says over others.

As it is written;

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I (The Jesus of the Bible) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Religious men of this world have rejected and polluted God's Sabbaths for a long time, listening to men who profess to know God. I simply don't believe men can choose to dishonor and disrespect God in this same manner as they did, simply because they do so in Jesus Name.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, the children of the devil came to Jesus and said “Look, Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”


The Priests were instructed to do "works" to provide for the mercy of God.





No, that is you adding your own bias against God's Sabbath. The Priests were obeying God's instruction for Priests.




You are cherry picking Scriptures in order to preserve your own bias against God's Laws. It's very common, the mainstream preachers of Jesus time did the same thing. Jesus said the Sabbath HE is Lord of, was made for man. Not for man to pollute or reject, but to keep Holy.

Here is the Christ of the Bible telling you this "where HE was before".

Is. 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

He also warns, after HE became a man, that "many" who call HIM Lord, Lord, but are not "doers" of His Sayings, but hearers only, HE doesn't know.

He also said;

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

For me, it is important to consider "ALL" of the Christ's Words, as HE instructs. Just because you may not believe Him, or the Word's His Father sent Him to speak, doesn't make HIS Words Void, in my view.



I understand this is a popular religious teaching from this world's religions, I simply believe what the Christ of the Bible says over others.

As it is written;

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I (The Jesus of the Bible) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Religious men of this world have rejected and polluted God's Sabbaths for a long time, listening to men who profess to know God. I simply don't believe men can choose to dishonor and disrespect God in this same manner as they did, simply because they do so in Jesus Name.

You do not agree with the words of Jesus that priests were breaking the sabbath?

"...Haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and yet are innocent? But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here."

And do you agree that we are priests and even the temple of God?

 

[Gary K]

If she is out sick seven days a month, she will not find a good paying job. She would have never become a vice president observing that law, more likely a housewife domestic servant.

A mother's role is the most important role there is in society. That a child grows up secure in his mothers love, demonstrated by placing him at the top of her priority list, in a large part affects that child's future. Abraham Lincoln credited his step mother's love for his success in life. His dad was abusive and could see no need for education. His step mother was kind and encouraged him to learn as much as he could. His life proves the value of a mother's love and self education.

 

[Gary K]

Jesus expressed the nature of God by healing the sick, the lame, the blind, and raising the dead.

And that is in a righteousness from God through faith (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21, Romans 9:30; Philippians 3:9), not through law keeping.
Just as Abraham's righteousness was from God, credited to him by faith (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3), not by law keeping,

The law was not given to make righteous "because righeousness is by faith" (Galatians 3:11).
The law was given to reveal sin (Romans 3:20, 5:20, 7:7).

You err because you do not know the NT word of God in the God-breathed Scriptures regarding righteousness from God (Mark 12:24).
Go and learn what they mean (Matthew 9:13).
Go and learn orthodox Chritianity from the NT.

Jesus never sinned therefore He kept the law perfectly.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

There is zero conflict between keeping the law and loving God and our fellow man.

 

[Gary K]

I get what you're saying. However, there being no theocracy in Israel at the time of Roman occupation did not stop regular citizens from picking up stones to stone someone.

Since when does a law against murder stop people from committing murder? No law ever has or ever will guarantee that no one will break it. That's what Paul meant by saying that the law was weak through the flesh.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Since when does a law against murder stop people from committing murder? No law ever has or ever will guarantee that no one will break it. That's what Paul meant by saying that the law was weak through the flesh.

Does not follow, Paul got permission before persecuting the way.

 

[Gary K]

The Gentile churches never observed the Saturday Sabbath. They worshiped on Sunday right from the start. Paul and his ministry team went into the Synagogues on Saturdays to preach the Gospel to the Jews.

Untrue.

Act 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Act 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
Act 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

What this passage teaches is that Paul preached so long Saturday night that Eutychus fell asleep and fell out the window. Remember the Sabbath goes from sundown to sundown as demonstrated in the death burial and resurrection and resurrection of Jesus because He rose early, before dawn, on Sunday morning.

 

[Gary K]

Does not follow, Paul got permission before persecuting the the way.

That's actully non responsive to what I was referring to but I'll address what you said. So people have a right to order the murder of other people? Just where do you get that idea?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That's actully non responsive to what I was referring to but I'll address what you said. So people have a right to order the murder of other people? Just where do you get that idea?

I didn't. Since you're flaming a strawman, I decided to talk about something else.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus never sinned therefore He kept the law perfectly.

Jesus' righteousness was not from law keeping.
He was born righteous, and he did not lose it because he did not sin against the law.

There is zero conflict between keeping the law and loving God and our fellow man.

Its not about conflict, it's about love being the fulfillment of the law.
He who loves God and neighbor as self has fulfilled the law.

 

[Gary K]

I didn't. Since you're flaming a strawman, I decided to talk about something else.

Huh? You said this:

Michael Collum said:

Does not follow, Paul got permission before persecuting the the way.

I guess you are unaware that Paul was responsible for killing people.

Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
Act 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

 

[Gary K]

Jesus' righteousness was not from law keeping.
He was born righteous, and he did not lose it because he did not sin against the law.

Its not about conflict, it's about love being the fulfillment of the law.
He who loves God and neighbor as self has fulfilled the law.

Jesus' life demonstrates there is no difference between keeping the law and loving God with all our hearts and our neighbor as ourselves.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Huh? You said this:



I guess you are unaware that Paul was responsible for killing people.

Your question misunderstands the nature of the Roman Empire.

 

[Gary K]

Your question misunderstands the nature of the Roman Empire.

Huh? You're going to have to explain yourself because what I posted is why Paul called himslf the chief of sinners.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus' life demonstrates there is no difference between keeping the law and loving God with all our hearts and our neighbor as ourselves.

As Jesus was born, lived, preached and died under the OC, so he sent this apostles to teach those under the NC that whosoever loves has fulfilled the law (Ro 13:8-10) of Christ.

 

[Gary K]

As Jesus was born, lived, preached and died under the OC, so he sent this apostles to teach those under the NC that whosoever loves has fulfilled the law (Ro 13:8-10) of Christ.

Interesting. Jesus said:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

He said this while talking to His disciples about the end of the world and their commission to spread the gospel.

 

[Clare73]

Interesting. Jesus said:

He said this while talking to His disciples about the end of the world and their commission to spread the gospel.

I'm missing the point of distinction here. Would you be so kind as to explain it.

 

[Gary K]

I'm missing the point of distinction here. Would you be so kind as to explain it.

The gospel they were to teach all nations was what Jesus had taught during His entire earthly ministry.