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An Example of Hedonistic Lesbians...

savedandhappy1

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Are you claiming to have an open mind? I refuse to believe that someone who wishes to impose her way of life upon others has an open mind.


Yet it is ok for the other side to impose their way of life..........................and that is open minded....................................hummmmmmmmmmmmm.............well ok, now I understand.
 
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savedandhappy1

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Please - and I mean this kindly, REALLY - the Words of the Lord say nothing about homosexuality. I know I sound like a broken laser disc (I've upgraded the expression) but the issue of homosexuality that we are discussing on this subforum - that is, one's innate sexual orientation and 'issues' that may be asscociated WITH one's sexual orientation - is not addressed in the Bible at all. It really isn't!


I respectfully don't agree.

[QUOTE=KCKID;47911379] Homosexuality does not equate to sodomy and rape and unconsensual sexual intercourse and it's innacurate as well as rather cruel for Christians to keep implying that it does.

Until Christians recognize this we'll never get past first base on the issue of the Bible vs. homosexuality.[/QUOTE]

Well no
it doesn't have anything to do with rape, and unconsensual sexual intercourse, and I have never said it did.

So I guess that means I must be past first base.
 
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Caylin

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Yet it is ok for the other side to impose their way of life..........................and that is open minded....................................hummmmmmmmmmmmm.............well ok, now I understand.

Me marrying my partner doesn't impact your rights in anyway. Just because you think something is wrong and gross doesn't mean if it is allowed then your rights are taken away.

I don't know why I'm bothering. Its not like you care about gay people in the least.
 
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Gishin

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Me marrying my partner doesn't impact your rights in anyway. Just because you think something is wrong and gross doesn't mean if it is allowed then your rights are taken away.

I don't know why I'm bothering. Its not like you care about gay people in the least.
They care about making gay people conform to their standards of morality.
 
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katautumn

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Is there anything inherently wrong with conformity?

It depends. In terms of expecting others to conform to a group of people's personal understanding of the Scriptures (which has caused a great deal of division even among believers, not just on the issue of homosexuality) when said person is not an adherent of that group then yes, there is something severely wrong with conformity.
 
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AmericanCatholic

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It depends. In terms of expecting others to conform to a group of people's personal understanding of the Scriptures (which has caused a great deal of division even among believers, not just on the issue of homosexuality) when said person is not an adherent of that group then yes, there is something severely wrong with conformity.

Is there anything other than "personal understanding of the Scriptures" with which conformity should be encouraged?
 
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savedandhappy1

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Me marrying my partner doesn't impact your rights in anyway. Just because you think something is wrong and gross doesn't mean if it is allowed then your rights are taken away.
See there is where you are wrong. They want, and in some schools are teaching that mommy and daddy can be two men or two women, and the parents don't have a choice as to whether that is taught to their children or not. So yes it does affect me, and my family.

I don't know why I'm bothering. Its not like you care about gay people in the least.

I'm glad you never get tired of bearing false witness. By the way can you show me where you care about heterosexual people in your post? Is that caring shown in your continual stating things about people that isn't true, like above?

Could you please show me where you are concerned about where I will spend eternity in any of your post.

Show me where I have called you a hater, bigot or prejudice, because you don't believe that homosexuality is a sin. Not saying you have called me the above names, just stating the names that have been used to try and discredit me, and/or make me feeling guilty so I will give up my beliefs or be silent about the truths I feel we are told to share.

Please tell me how not wanting someone to spend eternity in hell is hate, bigotry, homophobic, or a form of prejudice.

I'm sorry I didn't notice if you are a Christian or not so if you don't profess Christ as your Saviour then nevermind about the questions I ask, because they would only mean something if you are a Christian.
 
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Caylin

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In your efforts to deny rights to gay people you have shown you don't care about us at all. See, I care about straight people because I don't go out of their way to make their lives more difficult.

As for schools, I can see why it would be damaging to your cause for your kids to be taught that gay couple exist and deserve respect. How could you convince them to tell lies about gay people and their lives if they knew anything about it. Also: me getting married doesn't have anything to do with what they teach in schools.
 
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AmericanCatholic

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See, I care about straight people because I don't go out of their way to make their lives more difficult.

When a family intervenes in a member's addiction, requiring the member to address his problem or face particular consequences, are they not making his life more difficult? I am not suggesting that homosexuality and drug or alcohol abuse are similar, but I am questioning the assumption that love, or "care", is exclusively or inherently aimed at avoiding difficulty.
 
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katautumn

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Is there anything other than "personal understanding of the Scriptures" with which conformity should be encouraged?


Obviously a prime example would be acting within the parameters of local and national laws. Laws are in place so that one person should not be able to infringe upon your basic human rights without facing serious consequences. But there is a huge difference between expecting people to conform to the laws so that you are not raped, beaten, murdered, robbed of your possessions, etc. and expecting the government to pass laws because a certain relationship situation makes you uncomfortable. We have no fundamental human right to not see or know about things that make us uncomfortable.
 
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AmericanCatholic

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Obviously a prime example would be acting within the parameters of local and national laws. Laws are in place so that one person should not be able to infringe upon your basic human rights without facing serious consequences. But there is a huge difference between expecting people to conform to the laws so that you are not raped, beaten, murdered, robbed of your possessions, etc. and expecting the government to pass laws because a certain relationship situation makes you uncomfortable. We have no fundamental human right to not see or know about things that make us uncomfortable.

Do you agree that one should conform to just laws, and not conform to unjust laws?
 
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katautumn

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Do you agree that one should conform to just laws, and not conform to unjust laws?

Most laws that are out dated, yet remain on the books, are never applied. Throughout the years, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of striking down state and federal laws that were deemed unconstitutional. Could you, perhaps, give a specific example of what would be an unjust law that is still in effect today?
 
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Caylin

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When a family intervenes in a member's addiction, requiring the member to address his problem or face particular consequences, are they not making his life more difficult? I am not suggesting that homosexuality and drug or alcohol abuse are similar, but I am questioning the assumption that love, or "care", is exclusively or inherently aimed at avoiding difficulty.

When people care, they try to understand whats going on in the person's life. When an anti gay person tries to convince a gay person to be single for their whole life or make them unable to marry, then they aren't trying to under stand, just punish.
 
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AmericanCatholic

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Most laws that are out dated, yet remain on the books, are never applied. Throughout the years, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of striking down state and federal laws that were deemed unconstitutional. Could you, perhaps, give a specific example of what would be an unjust law that is still in effect today?

Let's use your stated purpose for laws as our basis for justice: Laws are in place so that one person should not be able to infringe upon your basic human rights without facing serious consequences. With that said, any law which enables, or compels, a person to "infringe" upon "basic rights", however defined, is unjust. The point is not that a particular law is just or unjust, but there exists a higher order to which even the law is subject. So while people ought to conform to the law, it is even more important they conform to justice, upon which the law is based. So, of course, the next question becomes: is there a higher order upon which even justice is based?

When people care, they try to understand whats going on in the person's life. When an anti gay person tries to convince a gay person to be single for their whole life or make them unable to marry, then they aren't trying to under stand, just punish.

I agree with your first sentence. I also agree that many self-proclaimed Christians are not interested in homosexuals as people. But my question still remains open: what do homosexuals expect from love? That is, knowing that Christians commonly view homosexuality as a sin, and that Christians commonly accept that one ought to avoid sin in one's life, do homosexuals, in general, have an unreasonable expectation of love? It is not to suggest that homosexuals should be alienated from the community -- not at all. The Church is for sinners. But it is certainly to suggest that everyone, including homosexuals, should seek to rid sin from their lives as much as possible and it is a part of the Church's responsibility to assist in that journey.
 
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savedandhappy1

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In your efforts to deny rights to gay people you have shown you don't care about us at all. See, I care about straight people because I don't go out of their way to make their lives more difficult.

As for schools, I can see why it would be damaging to your cause for your kids to be taught that gay couple exist and deserve respect. How could you convince them to tell lies about gay people and their lives if they knew anything about it. Also: me getting married doesn't have anything to do with what they teach in schools.

I'm not teaching that all people don't deserve respect, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that all sin and what some of those sins are.

So your rights override mine?

I don't have the right to not have my kids taught things that I don't believe are correct, but I wonder what you would say if the schools were voting to teach that homosexuality is a sin and not normal. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Please tell me you can see how it isn't right for your or for my kids to be taught either of these sides in school, but should be left to the parents.

Cause and affect "One action leds to another", they are teaching the Dads and Moms being either 2 men or 2 women so that acceptance that this is normal, and so ............................................yes one thing does affect the other.

So again, you try to make something into something that it isn't, because wanting all to go to heaven is not hate or bigotry. Wanting all to go to heaven isn't taking away someones respect or denying their existance, but I'm sure that those who read these post with an open mind and heart see that.
 
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Crazy Liz

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I'm not teaching that all people don't deserve respect, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that all sin and what some of those sins are.

So your rights override mine?

I don't have the right to not have my kids taught things that I don't believe are correct, but I wonder what you would say if the schools were voting to teach that homosexuality is a sin and not normal. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

You have the right not to send your kids to public school.

Please tell me you can see how it isn't right for your or for my kids to be taught either of these sides in school, but should be left to the parents.

Cause and affect "One action leds to another", they are teaching the Dads and Moms being either 2 men or 2 women so that acceptance that this is normal, and so ............................................yes one thing does affect the other.

What do you think kids should be taught about accepting the classmate who has 2 moms?

So again, you try to make something into something that it isn't, because wanting all to go to heaven is not hate or bigotry. Wanting all to go to heaven isn't taking away someones respect or denying their existance, but I'm sure that those who read these post with an open mind and heart see that.

I can see room for different opinions about sin, but what should the school do about the daughter of a lesbian who is ostracized by her classmates in second grade? Seriously, if you want the schools to say nothing & leave it to the parents to teach at home, you should have some suggestions about how to deal with the fallout among the students in the school.
 
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savedandhappy1

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More proof that laws are already made and are attempted to be made that will force Christians to either do things that they don't agree with, and or be considered a criminals. There is also a paragraph in there that speaks about some of the issues in Canada because of their laws.


Ironically, opposition to the bill is coming from a minority group long associated with proponents of civil rights. A group of black conservative leaders are lobbying against the bill now in the Senate. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, founder and president of the Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny (BOND), was recently in Washington, D.C. urging senators to vote against the hate crimes bill (SB 1105). The bill would provide federal assistance for the prosecution of any crime that is "motivated by prejudice based on the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of the victim." What they object to is the late addition of "sexual orientation" to the list.
Peterson and others claim the bill could one day force Christian pastors to perform same sex "marriages” and if they refuse, they could be criminalized. He and others also believe that the pulpit could be silenced if pastors preach against homosexuality which they view as a sin … and even still that the Bible would be classified as "hate speech," regarding its references to homosexuality.
Sound silly? Well maybe, maybe not.
In Canada, there is a similar hate crimes bill now in effect. A Canadian pastor is facing a hearing before the Alberta Human Rights and Citizenship commission over a letter he wrote to a newspaper condemning homosexuality. Some believe the minister's letter was the motivation behind the beating of a 17-year-old homosexual two weeks after the letter was published. The minister's counsel claims his client's free speech is being violated and that the hate crimes bill is a bad law because it criminalizes speech but does nothing to prevent violent crime. (Of course the argument would be that the hate speech motivates the violence and stopping the speech would prevent the crime.)
Even within the U.S. there are signs that Rev. Peterson may have a legitimate point. In New Jersey, two lesbians have filed a civil rights complaint against a Methodist-run campground that refused to host a same sex union ceremony. The seaside retreat of the Ocean Grove Campground was founded by Methodists in 1869. Trustees denied the women's request, citing official church policy, which does not recognize same sex unions.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290776,00.html

Government to pastor: Renounce your faith!
[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]Now banned from expressing moral opposition to homosexuality[/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=-1]Posted: June 09, 2008
10:00 pm Eastern

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]© 2008 WorldNetDaily [/SIZE]

A Canadian human rights tribunal ordered a Christian pastor to renounce his faith and never again express moral opposition to homosexuality, according to a new report.
In a decision dated May 30 in the penalty phase of the quasi-judicial proceedings run by the Alberta Human Rights Tribunal, evangelical pastor Stephen Boisson was banned from expressing his biblical perspective of homosexuality and ordered to pay $5,000 for "damages for pain and suffering" as well as apologize to the activist who complained of being hurt.
According to a report from Pete Vere at the [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]Catholic[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] Exchange, the penalty could foreshadow the possible fate of the Rev. Alphonse de Valk, who also cited the biblical perspective on homosexuality in the nation's debate over same-sex "[COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]marriage[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]" and now faces HRC charges.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66704

But the United States is not immune:
... New Mexico photographer fined $6,600 for refusing to meet the demands of a lesbian to take pictures at a "wedding." Also, California has set in state law a ban on introducing anything but "positive" information about alternative sexual lifestyles, including homosexuality, in its public school.
And WND reported just days earlier when a verbal spat between two men on a street in Champaign, Ill., left the self-proclaimed homosexual facing no charges, and the other, an 18-year-old Christian student, facing felony "hate crimes" counts.

http://sixthcolumn.typepad.com/duckwalls/2008/06/quoting-from-th.html

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/091004sweden.aspx
 
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