An Example of Hedonistic Lesbians...

[Archer93]

Also alot of people think you should do what they are doing, and that you should be a part of their plan. This is wonderful if God agrees, but when God doesn't agree then we shouldn't either.

Quoted for irony.

As for the rest of your post- well, given that certain types who proclaim themselves to be Christians can take a handful of badly-translated verses that refer to specific social-cultural contexts and interpret them into a blanket condemnation of homosexuality, I suppose it's not very surprising that they can interpret a bill to outlaw discrimination regarding transexuals as a personal attack. Though they clearly need therapy to address their persecution complex.

The Bible isn't hate speech unless someone sets out to translate it in that way, in which case the issue is with the translation, not with the source text.
And I would be absolutely amazed if someone were to be prosecuted for simply declaring in public 'My interpretation of the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin, and so homosexuals should stop it and repent if they want to go to heaven'.
On the other hand, repreatedly stating that homosexuality is vile and a perversion, that God hates you-know-whats, that they are evil and are trying to recruit children and all the other lies-for-Jesus that are thrown around- well, yeah, that's hate speech right there. It's the sort of demagogury that whips crowds up into the sort of frenzies that resulted in lynchings.
But- and stop me if I'm wrong here- I am given to understand that repeating the sort of nonsense mentioned above is not a fundamental, key part of Christianity. In fact, many would say that the above is the very antithesis of Christianity.
So, a ban on whipping crowds up into an anti-gay frenzy is not a ban on Christianity. It's a ban on behaving badly to your fellow men.
And Christians really shouldn't need a secular law to tell them to treat their neighbours well.

 

[savedandhappy1]

So when did telling lies become a godly value? What about breaking the laws of the land when you outlaw gay marriage? I thought you were supposed to be truthful and follow the law. Obviously, I was addressing someone who was either lieing, or refusing to think when she said that several states outlawed being a christian. And again, explain why you bring up the law and the constitution when you strive to shatter it as best you can?

Laws of the land are to be folllowed if they aren't against the laws of the Lord, and again with the lying statements.

If I said states (plural) then I am sorry, even tho more states.......................it might be best if you searched out those things yourself, because even with news articles and the SB200 on line it doesn't seem that you want to use the brain God gave you to read and search out these truth for yourself. All the while accusing others of that and other things, does that mean those others things are what you are really doing while accusing others?

I wouldn't know since this is maybe your 3rd. post to me, that I'm aware of, and since I can't begin to know you, so I won't lower myself and make statements that I have know why of knowing the truth of.

If we really could always tell from the typed word what a person is meaning and be sure that mistakes weren't made while attempting to keep post small, well then maybe.........................

I see you have the sign of a brain, showing you are a thinker not a christian, as if you can't be both. Sorry to see that you don't believe in the Lord or it would appear in your Creator, but if you would use the brain He gave you, you might be able to see that......................................nevermind.

P.S. I don't think the founding father thought that the Constitution would be turned around to mean thinks opposite of what they meant either, and now Colorado has made a law that has so many holes it, that it can be abused easily. Which is stated by people that aren't associated with any group, so it isn't just some right winged, radical conservative group over reacting, but you would only know this if you studied the bill with an open mind. I found it interesting that groups who don't agree with these groups studied the bill themselves, and stated on their blogs how they hated to say it but they would have to be on the side of those awlful Christians but ..................................

Amazing that people can do their own thinking and studying and come up with the same things as those non-thinking Christians, but it was probably just an accident.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Quoted for irony.

As for the rest of your post- well, given that certain types who proclaim themselves to be Christians can take a handful of badly-translated verses that refer to specific social-cultural contexts and interpret them into a blanket condemnation of homosexuality, I suppose it's not very surprising that they can interpret a bill to outlaw discrimination regarding transexuals as a personal attack. Though they clearly need therapy to address their persecution complex.

The Bible isn't hate speech unless someone sets out to translate it in that way, in which case the issue is with the translation, not with the source text.
And I would be absolutely amazed if someone were to be prosecuted for simply declaring in public 'My interpretation of the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin, and so homosexuals should stop it and repent if they want to go to heaven'.
On the other hand, repreatedly stating that homosexuality is vile and a perversion, that God hates you-know-whats, that they are evil and are trying to recruit children and all the other lies-for-Jesus that are thrown around- well, yeah, that's hate speech right there. It's the sort of demagogury that whips crowds up into the sort of frenzies that resulted in lynchings.
But- and stop me if I'm wrong here- I am given to understand that repeating the sort of nonsense mentioned above is not a fundamental, key part of Christianity. In fact, many would say that the above is the very antithesis of Christianity.
So, a ban on whipping crowds up into an anti-gay frenzy is not a ban on Christianity. It's a ban on behaving badly to your fellow men.
And Christians really shouldn't need a secular law to tell them to treat their neighbours well.

That's what they said in Canada when they passed similar laws, but if you will do some research you will see..............................well if you really want to see the truth.

No laws shouldn't be needed to treat people right, but then again maybe we should define what treating a neighbor well means to you. Allowing someone to by law break the Creators laws isn't treating them well, because if it were then there would be no sins. For as long as we think it's right and that it is intolerent and hate to speak of the Creators laws, and try to keep a Country that used to be a Christian Nation just that................................It is sad that so many can't or won't see how this country is getting farther and farther away from God, it must happen I know we are told.(the falling away) I just never thought I would live to see it.

The changes that I have seen in my 52 years are so great. I can remember when you weren't looked at strangely because someone tells you about how a person wasn't hurt in an accident, and you say Praise The Lord. I can remember that when you were out in public and go to mention the Lord's name, and you didn't whisper to do it. I can even remember the days that if 9/11 would have happened then, people wouldn't have had to return to church because they were already there.

I found a public mind from my small town newspaper written back in the 70's, the other day. It was written by a Christian boy I was going to highschool with. He was warnings of what we now see has happened, unsound doctrine, false prophets, making God into who we feel He should be because we aren't comfortable with who He is, the church falling away etc. I will have to see if I can get my scanner to work and post it, if I can I will let you know where I post it, because it has nothing to do with this sub-forum, and yet was truely a prophetic statement.

Will be praying that you are still seeking the truth, and that the Lord will open the eyes of your heart to His presence, love, mercy and grace.

Good Day.

 

[Texas Lynn]

So which is more immoral, passing a law that is considered a sin in God's eyes, or not voting in favor or it, and the world call it immoral?

In this case a gay marriage is not a sin in god's eyes, you are acquiescing yourself to the world in the form of submitting to the hatred and bigotry of the right wing groups to which you are drawn.

I am determined that I will not be conformed to the wishes of my friends, relatives and/or the world, but will be transformed and led by the Spirit of God. This Spirit tells me that homosexuality is a sin, and so that would mean that marriage/union of homosexuals would also be a sin. I will not vote so the world can make a sin legal by the worlds standards, because that isn't the standards that Christians are to live by.

There is no supposed "spirit of god" in the promotion of hatred in which the movement against LGBT marriage is involved, but only the spirt of the debbil hisself.

WorldNetDaily

Steve Crampton, general counsel of Liberty Counsel.

national syndicated talk show host Janet Folger, who wrote "The Criminalization of Christianity;" Steve Curtis, president of the American Right To Life Action and former chairman of the Colorado GOP; Kevin Swanson of Christian Home Educators of Colorado; Mark Hotaling of Christian Family Alliance and Colorado for Family Values.

Extremists all. You've been played.

 

[Texas Lynn]

That's what they said in Canada when they passed similar laws

Canada is not a free country like the U.S.; lok who's on their currency, a hereditary monarch.

We want the right wing to have free speech. We want Fred Phelps protesting outside Heath ledger's funeral. What better wrang-wrang could there be?

 

[Archer93]

That's what they said in Canada when they passed similar laws, but if you will do some research you will see..............................well if you really want to see the truth.

No laws shouldn't be needed to treat people right, but then again maybe we should define what treating a neighbor well means to you. Allowing someone to by law break the Creators laws isn't treating them well, because if it were then there would be no sins. For as long as we think it's right and that it is intolerent and hate to speak of the Creators laws, and try to keep a Country that used to be a Christian Nation just that................................It is sad that so many can't or won't see how this country is getting farther and farther away from God, it must happen I know we are told.(the falling away) I just never thought I would live to see it.

The changes that I have seen in my 52 years are so great. I can remember when you weren't looked at strangely because someone tells you about how a person wasn't hurt in an accident, and you say Praise The Lord. I can remember that when you were out in public and go to mention the Lord's name, and you didn't whisper to do it. I can even remember the days that if 9/11 would have happened then, people wouldn't have had to return to church because they were already there.

I found a public mind from my small town newspaper written back in the 70's, the other day. It was written by a Christian boy I was going to highschool with. He was warnings of what we now see has happened, unsound doctrine, false prophets, making God into who we feel He should be because we aren't comfortable with who He is, the church falling away etc. I will have to see if I can get my scanner to work and post it, if I can I will let you know where I post it, because it has nothing to do with this sub-forum, and yet was truely a prophetic statement.

Will be praying that you are still seeking the truth, and that the Lord will open the eyes of your heart to His presence, love, mercy and grace.

Good Day.

No, if you think that things are going bad in Canada because of certain laws it's up to you to provide proof. Vaguely suggesting that things ain't great and telling people to look things up without even suggesting what sort of things they should look for suggests that there isn't anything to find.

America never was a Christian nation. It was always secular. Britain IS a Christian nation, yet somehow we've managed to avoid the extreams of 'Christian behaviour that can crop up in the States.

Treating people well means talking to them in a polite, civilised way. Not picketing funerals, screaming obscenities and spreading lies. I know that not every Christian who believes that homosexual activity is a sin does that, but many do and the rest of you don't seem to be doing much about it. Athough some do; I've seen non-gay friendly Christians on this board state that the likes of Phelps do not represent the best way to spread the message.

People have been saying that the end times are upon us and that the pure message of God's truth is being diluted for the last 2000 years. It's nothing new.

Thank you for your prayers, in return may the Goddess smile upon you and bless you always.

 

[Texas Lynn]

America never was a Christian nation. It was always secular.

This cannot be overemphasized. George Washington wrote to the Jews of Truro Synagouge innMassachusetts, "The United States was not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion."

 

[savedandhappy1]

No, if you think that things are going bad in Canada because of certain laws it's up to you to provide proof. Vaguely suggesting that things ain't great and telling people to look things up without even suggesting what sort of things they should look for suggests that there isn't anything to find.

America never was a Christian nation. It was always secular. Britain IS a Christian nation, yet somehow we've managed to avoid the extreams of 'Christian behaviour that can crop up in the States.

Treating people well means talking to them in a polite, civilised way. Not picketing funerals, screaming obscenities and spreading lies. I know that not every Christian who believes that homosexual activity is a sin does that, but many do and the rest of you don't seem to be doing much about it. Athough some do; I've seen non-gay friendly Christians on this board state that the likes of Phelps do not represent the best way to spread the message.

People have been saying that the end times are upon us and that the pure message of God's truth is being diluted for the last 2000 years. It's nothing new.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69775

Thank you for your prayers, in return may the Goddess smile upon you and bless you always.

Posted: July 16, 2008
9:28 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

Christians will face prison for speaking out against homosexuality if Brazil's Senate passes a bill approved unanimously by its House of Representatives.

The measure is considered the country's newest attempt to promote homosexuality, disguised as an act to combat discrimination, the Catholic News Agency reports.

If anyone prevents actions of "homosexual affection" in public or private locations open to the public, they could face up to five years in prison for doing so, the Association of the Defense of Life reports.

The bill also seeks to penalize private and public school administrators with up to three years in prison if they refuse to hire openly "gay" teachers.

According to the CNA, the measure will force prison time for any "moral, ethical, philosophical or psychological expression that questions homosexual practices."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69775

1st AMENDMENT ON TRIAL
[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]Court says 'gay' rights trump Christian rights[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]Dismisses free-speech case filed by Philadelphia 11[/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=-1]Posted: July 18, 2008
12:10 am Eastern

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]© 2008 WorldNetDaily [/SIZE]

A federal appeals court dismissed a civil rights complaint by 11 Philadelphia Christians, ruling their [COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]First [/FONT][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]Amendment [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=blue! important][FONT='Times New Roman', Georgia, Serif]rights[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] were trumped by the First Amendment rights of homosexuals at the city's taxpayer-funded "Outfest" celebration in 2004.
"The city has an interest in ensuring that a permit-holder can use the permit for the purpose for which it was obtained," this week's opinion from the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said. "This interest necessarily includes the right of police officers to prevent counter-protestors from disrupting or interfering with the message of the permit-holder."
The decision upheld a lower court's dismissal of the civil action against the city of Philadelphia and its police filed by the "Philadelphia 11," as they have come to be known.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69881

Somebody in the church that day apparently misunderstood Steele’s “different type of war” comment to mean that he was actually calling his congregation to a physical war against abortion clinics, so he or she placed an anonymous phone call to the FBI.

The informant allegedly told the FBI that in addition to Steele calling for a war against abortion clinics, he also said he was willing to go to jail over such a cause.

Steele said that he had spoken about his willingness to go to jail, but that he made those remarks in a different sermon that dealt with homosexuality from the same sermon series.

“I had mentioned a pastor in Canada who had been arrested for speaking about homosexuality in his church,” Steele said. The pastor said he went on to tell his congregation that “if speaking the truth means that we go to jail, then by golly, that’s where I'm going to be and I’m going to save you a seat next to me.”

“That was the major gist of why [the FBI] felt like they could come here and look through my sermons,” Steele said.

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=20055

Hate Crimes Bill Opponents Protest for Right to Preach on Biblical Sin



By Michelle Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Thu, Jul. 12 2007 01:53 PM EDT


WASHINGTON – Christian pro-family groups from across the nation rallied at the Capitol Wednesday to protest against the hate crimes bill currently being reviewed by the Senate, which opponents argue will endanger the rights of Christians to preach about the sin of homosexuality.

"This hate crime legislation is hatred and intolerance aimed at ministers and good Christian folks who dare to call sin ‘sin,’” said Dr. Johnny M. Hunter, national director of LEARN (Life Education and Resource Network).
“Pastors not only have a right, but they have an obligation to state emphatically, that according to Scripture, a man or a woman should not perform a sex act with a person of the same sex,” he said, as a long yellow banner facing the Capitol read “Homosexuality is a Sin” flapped in the wind beside him.
Hunter noted that the “moral code” on sin does not only apply to some but to all so it is not discriminatory.
“If a lesbian kills another lesbian, would she be charged with a hate crime? If a man kills the man he calls his partner, would he be charged with a hate crime?” questioned Hunter. “If not, then that law would be discriminatory because it would only apply to heterosexuals.”

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...otest-for-right-to-preach-on-biblical-sin.htm

Catholicism - A Hate Crime in Canada?

June 4th, 2008 by Pete Vere, JCL
“If one, because of one’s sincerely held moral beliefs, whether it be Jew, Muslim, Christian, Catholic, opposes the idea of same-sex marriage in Canada, is that considered ‘hate’?”
The question was not rhetorical. Nor was it theoretical. Fr. Alphonse de Valk, a Basilian priest and pro-life activist known throughout Canada for his orthodoxy, is currently being investigated by the Canadian Human Rights Commission (CHRC) — a quasi-judicial investigative body with the power of the Canadian government behind it. The CHRC is using section 13 of Canada’s Human Rights Act to investigate the priest. This is a section under which no defendant has ever won once the allegation has gone to tribunal — the next stage of the process.
Most defendants end up paying thousands of dollars in fines and compensation. This is in addition to various court costs. Moreover, defendants are responsible for their own legal defense. In contrast, the commission provides free legal assistance to the complainant.
What was Father de Valk’s alleged ‘hate act’?
Father defended the Church’s teaching on marriage during Canada’s same-sex ‘marriage’ debate, quoting extensively from the Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and Pope John Paul II’s encyclicals. Each of these documents contains official Catholic teaching. And like millions of other people throughout the world and the ages - many of who are non-Catholics and non-Christians — Father believes that marriage is an exclusive union between a man and a woman.


http://www.catholicexchange.com/2008/06/04/112780/

Sweden
The Bible becomes "hate speech" - In June 2004, Swedish pastor Ake Green was arrested and sentenced to one month in prison for preaching against homosexuality in his pulpit at his church in Kalmar in 2003. Green was the first pastor prosecuted for a "hate crime" after the Swedish government added "sexual orientation" to its "hate crime" law in 2003. The public prosecutor, Kjell Yngvesson, justified the arrest by saying, "Collecting Bible [verses] on this topic as he does makes this hate speech." An appeals court threw out the case in February 2004, saying that offering an interpretation of the Bible and urging others to follow it is not illegal.

United KingdomBishop gets a visit from the police for saying "gays" can change - The Anglican Bishop of Chester, England, the Rev. Dr. Peter Forster, was investigated by police for saying that homosexuals "could and should seek medical help to 'reorient' themselves." The Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement (LGCM), among others, accused him of advocating a "scandalous" and "offensive" argument from a "bygone age."

Canada

For a more concentrated view of the nasty effects of hate crimes laws against religious freedom, we now turn to our neighbor to the north. Enacting extensive hate crime laws and even recently legalizing same-sex "marriage," Canada in recent years has become a laboratory for homosexual activists experimenting with legal methods to suppress dissent.

Here's a summary of the situation from the Alliance Defense Fund:

We have already seen the means radical advocates of homosexual behavior just north of our border in Canada will go to in order to intimidate and silence Christians. C-250, the country's new "hate crimes" law, reads: "Everyone who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, willfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of … an indictable offense and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years." The law specifically states that those who practice homosexual behavior are an "identifiable" group.

The bill's author, homosexual Canadian politician Svend Robinson, said he hoped his measure would make "the current use of homophobic pejoratives in public schools and in public places socially and criminally reprehensible."25
​

A few more examples of Canada's growing repression:

http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=9672&department=CFI&categoryid=papers

Hate Crimes Bills: Threat to the Pulpit



By Harry R. Jackson, Jr.
Christian Post Guest Columnist
Mon, May. 07 2007 01:24 PM EDT


The Congress and Senate are trying strip the nation of religious freedom and the ability to preach the gospel from our church pulpits. This may sound incredulous at first blush but it is true. The Hate Crimes Prevention bills which are currently being put forth can be used in the future to censor the church and its ministers. I called a press conference to enable pastors (the majority of which were black) to take a stand on this issue. Excerpts from my address follow:

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070507/hate-crimes-bills-threat-to-the-pulpit.htm

House Soon to Vote on “Thought Crimes” Bill

By Richard Land - May 1, 2007 - 17
The House of Representatives is expected to vote this week on a bill that would pave the way to policing Christians’ thoughts and religious speech on their biblical views about homosexuality, as well as establishing a new protected class of Americans.
The Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2007 (H.R. 1592) would establish a new federal offense for so-called “hate crimes” and add “sexual orientation” and “gender identity” as protected classes, as well as mandate a separate federal criminal prosecution for state offenses for crimes motivated by “the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability of any person.”

http://erlc.com/article/house-soon-to-vote-on-thought-crimes-bill

http://jordan.house.gov/list/press/oh04_jordan/3MAY07HATECRIMES.shtml

Not sure how much information you wanted so if you need more let me know. It doesn't really take long when you google it, if you are really interested in the facts.

 

[Archer93]

The facts would include what it was that various people actually said. And I'm more inclined to trust some slightly more neutral news sources. I doubt that you would put much faith in reports from a highly politically active gay-oriented site, in the same way I have reason to think that a highly politically active Christian oriented site might put quite a bit of spin on a story.

I don't doubt that there are some gay-rights advocating groups that have a slightly itchy trigger finger when it comes to such matters, but it's a not-uncommon reaction to having spent years- decades, even, of having to put up with viles lies and insults being spread without having any sort of legal recourse. You can't legislate morality, but you can enforce civil behaviour.

And in not one of those cases was anyone being prosecuted or investigated for being a Christian. They were prosecuted or investigated under laws that apply to EVERYONE. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Pagans, Zoroastrians, atheists; everyone now has to avoid hate speech.
Hate speech is, of course, hard to define, but lies can certainly come under that heading.

Christianity is only being made illegal if lying about people and discriminating against them is an integral part of it. Is it?

 

[savedandhappy1]

This cannot be overemphasized. George Washington wrote to the Jews of Truro Synagouge innMassachusetts, "The United States was not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion."

Hummm, really strange.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7243716805363959903&hl=en

http://www.christianparents.com/lrconst.htm

http://godlyheritage.org/spot_bf.htm

Benjamin Franklin

After the American Revolution, The Founders of our nation gathered in Philadelphia to write a new constitution. But soon, the unity that had given the colonies victory over Britain, melted into quarreling and selfishness. Just when it seemed all would fall apart, the eldest statesman of the group stood to give an inspired speech.
Benjamin Franklin began, The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of man… We have been assured in the sacred writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. Therefore, I move that prayers employing the assistance of heaven and its blessings on our deliberation be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business.”

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/

http://www.perry08.com/christianity.html

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:
"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.”

George Washington

Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:
"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” ​

​

Samuel Adams

"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”

House Judiciary Committee - 1854

​

​

​

PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS

“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”
Northwest Ordinance 1789

Public schools were initially established to insure that all children received lessons in the Bible so that propagation of the Christian faith would continue to the glory of God. Of the first 108 colleges, 106 were founded on the Christian faith established by Evangelical Christians.

“Seeing God is the giver of all wisdom, every scholar, besides private or secret prayer, where all we are bound to ask shall be present morning and evening at public prayer in the hall at the accustomed hour….”

Yale University requirement

“For Christ and the church.”

Official Harvard University motto

"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.”

Gouverneur Morris

How times have changed. Our nation is at risk! Our children are the victims! Is it reasonable to assume that government, without God, will solve our problems?
Although our present day Supreme court purports to rule according to the precepts of the Constitution, their actions and statements do not coincide with those who drafted the document; suggesting that they are better equipped to understand the Constitution than those who wrote it.

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principals of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”

John Quincy Adams

“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

John Adams

“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.”

Thomas Jefferson
_____________________________________________________________


THE LAW OF GOD
Directly above the Chief Justices’ chair in the main chamber of the U.S. Supreme Court is the following:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy.
5. Honor thy father and mother.
6. Thou shalt not murder.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
10. Thou shalt not covet.
​

THE LAW OF GOD
Directly above the Chief Justices’ chair in the main chamber of the U.S. Supreme Court is the following:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy.
5. Honor thy father and mother.
6. Thou shalt not murder.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
10. Thou shalt not covet.

​

​

​

 

[Archer93]

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that many of the founders of America weren't Christian, or that they didn't think that Christianity was the best religion (every one is entitled to their beliefs), but unless you're calling Washington a liar, he did seem to make it very clear that America was NOT actively founded on Christianity. That it informed many of their decisions, sure, but that's not quite the same thing.
Some of the founders may well have disagreed and felt that it was founded on Christianity. That's the problem with a commitee, of course...
Quote mining is not a great way to construct an argument either, since a myriad quotes can be found to support the 'America is not founded on Christianity' argument as well.

 

[Caylin]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Read the first part over and over again till you understand it. It is illegal for there to be laws passed based on religion.

Now read the second. It is illegal for religion to be curtailed. That is why hate crime laws don't get in the way of being a hateful christian. Tell me, do you think the fact that religion is covered under hate crime laws makes it illegal to be christian?

 

[Texas Lynn]

WorldNetDaily

[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+1]Philadelphia 11[/SIZE][/FONT]


bpnews

Christian Post

LEARN (Life Education and Resource Network).

a Basilian priest and pro-life activist

catholicexchange

Ake Green

Alliance Defense Fund

Richard Land

One right wing paranoid site after another.

Michael Marcavage and the other "Philadelphia 11" are agitators who have merit repeated arrests for trespassing and disturbing the peace.

There people's claim to represent mainstream "Christians" is ludicrous.

If anyone prevents actions of "homosexual affection" in public or private locations open to the public

, they could face up to five years in prison for doing so, the Association of the Defense of Life reports.

Which would be an act of terrorism.

The bill also seeks to penalize private and public school administrators with up to three years in prison if they refuse to hire openly "gay" teachers.

Seems about right as long as it's coupled with prohibition of their further working in the education field.

 

[Texas Lynn]

David Barton

Barton and the Truth have long been strangers.

Benjamin Franklin

George Washington

etc.

There is no denying that the vast majority of the founders were mainstream Christians, to the extent liberals, masons, and deists are. But all were opposed to theocracy.

​

 

[catlover]

Posted: July 16, 2008
9:28 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily

Christians will face prison for speaking out against homosexuality if Brazil's Senate passes a bill approved unanimously by its House of Representatives.

The measure is considered the country's newest attempt to promote homosexuality, disguised as an act to combat discrimination, the Catholic News Agency reports.

If anyone prevents actions of "homosexual affection" in public or private locations open to the public, they could face up to five years in prison for doing so, the Association of the Defense of Life reports.

The bill also seeks to penalize private and public school administrators with up to three years in prison if they refuse to hire openly "gay" teachers.

According to the CNA, the measure will force prison time for any "moral, ethical, philosophical or psychological expression that questions homosexual practices."
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LOL you think it's okay for someone to prevent another person from holding hands with their partner or giving a peck on the cheek-I guess then-yes-it's against the law to harass people. If that's is what you mean by Christianity then yes it's against the law...but of course we know harassing people isn't really a Christian action, now is it??

 

[savedandhappy1]

In this case a gay marriage is not a sin in god's eyes, you are acquiescing yourself to the world in the form of submitting to the hatred and bigotry of the right wing groups to which you are drawn.

I have never been in a church that preached or taught one way or the other about homosexuality, believe it or not I study my Bible and pray for wisdom and understanding.

There is no supposed "spirit of god" in the promotion of hatred in which the movement against LGBT marriage is involved, but only the spirt of the debbil hisself.

Extremists all. You've been played.

There is no "spirit of hatred" in the ways of the Lord, so no matter how many times you type the words it isn't coming from me or is there any prejudice, but I guess it makes you feel good to pretend that there is. I find that really sad , but will just continue to pray.

Nope haven't been played because I don't get my wisdom and understanding from man, so it would be really hard to be played by someone I don't get the important things in this life from.

Sorry, again that you can't believe that someone can not hate, be a bigot or be played, and still understand the Words of the Lord to say that homosexuality is a sin.

Again, it saddens me that people would think that wishing all would be in heaven with me is hatred, but if I remember the scriptures correctly they say that good will be bad and bad good. That could be from one of those mis-interpretated scriptures though.

I have studied books on manuscripts of the dead sea scrolls, and many other forms of material, on the Greek and Hebrew............................nevermind.

There really isn't any reason to show where I get my understanding because your mind has been made up that I am some non-thinker who is being led around by................whoever.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Read the first part over and over again till you understand it. It is illegal for there to be laws passed based on religion.

Now read the second. It is illegal for religion to be curtailed. That is why hate crime laws don't get in the way of being a hateful christian. Tell me, do you think the fact that religion is covered under hate crime laws makes it illegal to be christian?

So you haven't seen any of the courts make decisions that were clearly not what the constitution says or means?????????????

I guess we will just sit back and watch as things continue to progress in the way it will go, and I hope that as you see it that you will keep an open mind, and remember things that the Lord has tried to tell everyone.

Yes, I notice that you don't believe in God, so will just pray that the open-mind that most atheist say they have and Christians don't have, will really be opened to the truth.

 

[KCKID]

Sorry, again that you can't believe that someone can not hate, be a bigot or be played, and still understand the Words of the Lord to say that homosexuality is a sin.

Please - and I mean this kindly, REALLY - the Words of the Lord say nothing about homosexuality. I know I sound like a broken laser disc (I've upgraded the expression) but the issue of homosexuality that we are discussing on this subforum - that is, one's innate sexual orientation and 'issues' that may be asscociated WITH one's sexual orientation - is not addressed in the Bible at all. It really isn't! Homosexuality does not equate to sodomy and rape and unconsensual sexual intercourse and it's innacurate as well as rather cruel for Christians to keep implying that it does.

Until Christians recognize this we'll never get past first base on the issue of the Bible vs. homosexuality.

 

[AmericanCatholic]

Please - and I mean this kindly, REALLY - the Words of the Lord say nothing about homosexuality. I know I sound like a broken laser disc (I've upgraded the expression) but the issue of homosexuality that we are discussing on this subforum - that is, one's innate sexual orientation and 'issues' that may be asscociated WITH one's sexual orientation - is not addressed in the Bible at all. It really isn't! Homosexuality does not equate to sodomy and rape and unconsensual sexual intercourse and it's innacurate as well as rather cruel for Christians to keep implying that it does.

Until Christians recognize this we'll never get past first base on the issue of the Bible vs. homosexuality.

Even if it were conceded that homosexuality is not addressed in the Bible, does it prove anything at all? Note that other things which we commonly accept as good or bad are not mentioned whatsoever in Scripture. Is there any mention of human rights or warnings against exploiting the environment? The Ten Commandments do not conform neatly with the ten amendments of the Bill of Rights. The problem here, I will suggest, is that the Bible-Alone crowd cannot justify specific positions without a foundation in Scripture. Consequently, counter-arguments, such as yours here, are aimed at refuting the basis of their claims. Naturally, without a basis in Scripture, the Bible-Alone crowd has no basis. But as a Catholic, I accept Scripture in a particular context; that is, its role as a testimony by the first Christians to the works of God. These works are not exclusively contained within Scripture. So, if we concede that God has an "opinion" on human rights and the environment, whatever that opinion may be, the fact that they are not mentioned in Scripture supports the claim that even without that mention, God has an "opinion" on homosexuality as well, whatever that opinion may be.

 

[Caylin]

So you haven't seen any of the courts make decisions that were clearly not what the constitution says or means?????????????

I guess we will just sit back and watch as things continue to progress in the way it will go, and I hope that as you see it that you will keep an open mind, and remember things that the Lord has tried to tell everyone.

Yes, I notice that you don't believe in God, so will just pray that the open-mind that most atheist say they have and Christians don't have, will really be opened to the truth.

Are you claiming to have an open mind? I refuse to believe that someone who wishes to impose her way of life upon others has an open mind.