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An Empirical Theory Of God (2)

Nostromo

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That is false. You ASSUMED it was a "centralized" intelligence rather than distributed one. There are probably trillions of visible circuits on the OUTSIDE of every sun. How about the ones on the INSIDE?
Can you show us some sort of consistent organisation that might be indicative of 'circuits'?

I imagine to most people the ejections and loops on the surface of the sun seem to be spontaneous, effectively random events, and I don't see that there's any reason to think otherwise.
 
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Michael

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Can you show us some sort of consistent organisation that might be indicative of 'circuits'?

I imagine to most people the ejections and loops on the surface of the sun seem to be spontaneous, effectively random events, and I don't see that there's any reason to think otherwise.

Quite the contrary. Birkeland demonstrated many of these events are directly associated with cathode suns. He even experimented with them in his lab and took pictures in his lab that look remarkably like satellite images today. He not only predicted both types of high speed solar wind particles, he predicted jets, loops, and pretty much all the things we observe in solar images.

PICTURES UNIVERSE ELECTRIFIED SPACE - Prof. Birkeland of Norway Holds That Suns and Stars Are Charged Negatively. - Article - NYTimes.com

These are anything but "random" events, in fact they are all electromagnetically driven events.
 
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Nostromo

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Well yes, obviously they're electromagnetically driven events, but what I'm asking is whether they're actually driven in some organised way.

In electronics and our brains the circuits have some level of consistency such that they perform the same or a similar function each time you use them. Is there any evidence that the circuits in the Sun are actually performing some kind of information processing?
 
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Michael

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Well yes, obviously they're electromagnetically driven events, but what I'm asking is whether they're actually driven in some organised way.

Well, that's really the big question now isn't it? Define "organized". Gravity creates organization, but I don't think I'm prepared to call it "alive" simply because it's "organized" in some way. I'm sure you feel the same way.

In electronics and our brains the circuits have some level of consistency such that they perform the same or a similar function each time you use them. Is there any evidence that the circuits in the Sun are actually performing some kind of information processing?

Well it has a number of highly consistent cycles, including a five minute cycle and a 22 year magnetic field rotation cycle. It has "variations" as well. How will we define a 'pattern' that identifies "life" from simple "organization"?
 
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Michael

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BBC News - Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC

This article caught my eye today and timing couldn't be better. The authors do an excellent job IMO of noting that this result could be due to an experimental error. However, at this point in time it's not altogether clear from neutrino experiments that C is the absolute speed limit of particles with mass. Keep in mind it's an early sort of "buzz" at this point, and there will be a lot of scrutiny once the paper is actually published.
 
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Nostromo

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Well it has a number of highly consistent cycles, including a five minute cycle and a 22 year magnetic field rotation cycle. It has "variations" as well. How will we define a 'pattern' that identifies "life" from simple "organization"?
It's not just the pattern that identifies life. Many systems exhibit patterns which mimic biological life, but would not meet even the most basic definition of biological life.
 
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Nabobalis

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Well it has a number of highly consistent cycles, including a five minute cycle and a 22 year magnetic field rotation cycle. It has "variations" as well. How will we define a 'pattern' that identifies "life" from simple "organization"?

Well the 5 minute oscillation is caused by turbulence in the convention region of the Sun and people who attempt dynamo theory can "explain" the cycle in rough terms (however it seems hard to find people who do work on dynamo theory).
 
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Michael

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It's not just the pattern that identifies life. Many systems exhibit patterns which mimic biological life, but would not meet even the most basic definition of biological life.

Sure, but then what type of patterns would you consider to be related exclusively to "life"?
 
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Michael

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Well the 5 minute oscillation is caused by turbulence in the convention region of the Sun and people who attempt dynamo theory can "explain" the cycle in rough terms (however it seems hard to find people who do work on dynamo theory).

Well, we're still back to square one in terms of what you might consider to be a pattern that relates to an aware being as opposed to some other type of function.
 
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Nostromo

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Sure, but then what type of patterns would you consider to be related exclusively to "life"?
"It's not just the pattern that identifies life."
If life cannot be identified by just the pattern, then the pattern is not exclusive to life.
 
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mzungu

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BBC News - Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC

This article caught my eye today and timing couldn't be better. The authors do an excellent job IMO of noting that this result could be due to an experimental error. However, at this point in time it's not altogether clear from neutrino experiments that C is the absolute speed limit of particles with mass. Keep in mind it's an early sort of "buzz" at this point, and there will be a lot of scrutiny once the paper is actually published.
Whatever the results; It will be one more PLUS for Science! Creationists are so desperate to find anything empirical that will fit into their beliefs.

Sad for them and happy for science that this shall never happen! Superstitions belong to the realms of leprechauns and fairies and have no role to play in science!
 
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Nabobalis

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Whatever the results; It will be one more PLUS for Science! Creationists are so desperate to find anything empirical that will fit into their beliefs.

Sad for them and happy for science that this shall never happen! Superstitions belong to the realms of leprechauns and fairies and have no role to play in science!

Well I would recommend going to that article and scrolling down to see user comments in order of lowest rated, you might either cry or laugh.
 
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mzungu

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Well I would recommend going to that article and scrolling down to see user comments in order of lowest rated, you might either cry or laugh.
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! I did and ................may I cry and laugh at the same time please:confused:
 
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Sad for them and happy for science that this shall never happen!
What is happy is that Science again and again and again has proven the Bible to be true. Not everything in the Bible can be proven at this point in time, but more and more and more Science has shown us that the Bible is dependable and we can rely on it's truth to guide us and to lead us in the way we are to go and the way we are to live our life.

I wonder if there is a difference between people who deny the Bible
and people who call Jesus Lord but do not follow His commandments.

Matthew 7:21(NKJV)

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

So again what difference does it make if you believe or if you deny
if your not going to follow the teaching of the Living Word of God?
 
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mzungu

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What is happy is that Science again and again and again has proven the Bible to be true. Not everything in the Bible can be proven at this point in time, but more and more and more Science has shown us that the Bible is dependable and we can rely on it's truth to guide us and to lead us in the way we are to go and the way we are to live our life.

I wonder if there is a difference between people who deny the Bible
and people who call Jesus Lord but do not follow His commandments.

Matthew 7:21(NKJV)

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

So again what difference does it make if you believe or if you deny
if your not going to follow the teaching of the Living Word of God?
Show me where has science proved anything in the Bible:confused::confused::confused:
As far as I know the Bible is a spiritual book and has absolutely no scientific relevance:doh:
 
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Michael

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Whatever the results; It will be one more PLUS for Science! Creationists are so desperate to find anything empirical that will fit into their beliefs.

I hear ya. Those Lamba-creationists will do anything to find their dark, impotent on Earth, sky gods. :)

Sad for them and happy for science that this shall never happen! Superstitions belong to the realms of leprechauns and fairies and have no role to play in science!
I agree. The odds of the mainstream finding any actual empirical evidence for inflation fairies and dark energy leprechauns are zero. It will never happen. ;)
 
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Michael

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mzungu

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Hezekiah's Tunnel (BiblePlaces.com)
Hezekiah's Tunnel: The Gihon Springs to the Pool of Siloam

Well, that's a silly attitude IMO. If nothing else it has useful historical value that has already been confirmed in modern times.
All you have done is show some historical accounts of places that proved to be real. So? You claimed that Science has proved the Bible right and this is what you give me?

Show me evidence where science has concurred with the Bible in matters such as: miracles, Genesis, Angels, Satan, Giants, 6000 year old Earth, etc.

I guarantee you, there is none.

Greek mythology is rife with real places and REAL people! So Mythology is fact?

Historical accounts of places can be found in works of fiction, and what you are implying is that just because those places exist then it is proof that the work of fiction is in fact a work of Non fiction!

Dear me:doh:
 
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Michael

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All you have done is show some historical accounts of places that proved to be real. So?

So some of the information contained in that book has already been confirmed "scientifically".

You claimed that Science has proved the Bible right and this is what you give me?

FYI, *I* personally never made any claims, I simply gave you what you seemed to suggest you wanted, specifically scientific confirmation of at least some part of it.

Show me evidence where science has concurred with the Bible in matters such as: miracles,

Which ones? Raising the dead? It happens all the time these days.
Some people were dead for several days

Genesis, Angels, Satan, Giants, 6000 year old Earth, etc.

Where does the Bible claim that the Earth is only 6000 years old? I've never heard a Catholic every make that claim. Why not? FYI the term "satan" translates to the term "adversary" in it's native tongue. It refers to "selfish ego".

I guarantee you, there is none.

I guarantee you that your 6K figure isn't in there either. :)

Greek mythology is rife with real places and REAL people! So Mythology is fact?

No, but I wouldn't immediately assume that it contains nothing that is scientifically accurate!

Historical accounts of places can be found in works of fiction, and what you are implying is that just because those places exist then it is proof that the work of fiction is in fact a work of Non fiction!

Dear me:doh:

That isn't what I said, that's your own strawman. Dear you indeed. :)
 
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Michael

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FYI, here was your statement:

As far as I know the Bible is a spiritual book and has absolutely no scientific relevance:doh:
You stated that the Bible had "absolutely no" scientific relevance, much like a flipside atheist "fundy". It may or may not all be accurate, but SOME parts of are already known to have some scientific relevance. Your claim is factually false.
 
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