An attempt to eliminate God.

[Sophrosyne]

Today is a sad day. When God can be portrayed as such and truth trodden under the foot of men.
A command by God to serve Him is slavery.
A command by God not to worship idols is slavery.
A command by God not to steal and lie and kill is slavery.
God is a slave master.
A sad day indeed.
I would only say that a rejection of the truth led the Jews to kill the saviour, A rejection of truth now have God as a slave master. There is no way that this idea could be of God and by extension the idea that the law is no more for followers of our Holy God can not be of God. See where it leads!

Commandments enforced by the threat of death sure to me sounds like slavery on a level.

 

[Sophrosyne]

We certainly do not practice lawlessness. We are under the New Covenant, which does have a burden. This burden, according to Scripture, is a light one. So there is law, but not the impossible law of the Old Covenant.

You assume that anything short of the six hundred plus commands given to a specific people at a specific time must be pure rebellion. The Bible speaks otherwise. Did Paul descend into disobedience and rebelliousness when he ate that which wasn't kosher, or was that law not written with jots or tittles?

Actually these folks ignore close to 600 of the commandments of the Mosaic Law focusing on the 10 commandments and dietary laws and just about nothing else of it all.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Actually these folks ignore close to 600 of the commandments of the Mosaic Law focusing on the 10 commandments and dietary laws and just about nothing else of it all.

I'm sure there is some justification for letting all those jots and tittles fall away! Can't wait to hear it!

 

[listed]

Grace is the absence of punishment not the absence of obedience. God's grace teaches us to live righteously and godly. Without grace we all would be done. Grace allows and promotes correction and growth, not disobedience and rebellion. If you keep trying to do away with the Law you will have trouble in the millennium. Remember, when Jesus comes back He is removing out of His kingdom those who practice lawlessness.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7858234/#post66834903

Are you preaching to us? Do we offend God or you? If God loved me according to you He would give me the desire to keep the Sabbath, well your amended Sabbath anyway. I have read the entire Bible several times and am knowledgeable about the law and the Sabbath of the law. It seems to me you at least say I hate God and am lawless. For me it is rather simple. The covenant requiring the observance of the Sabbath was never given to me as a Gentile or as a Christian.

 

[listed]

The Law is no burden for those who love God and have His Spirit.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Ezekiel 36:25-28 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

You cannot be God's people with His Law.

You and John are not talking about the same commandments.

The part of your quote that says - you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers both lets Christians out and proves the passage is directed solely to Israel.

 

[listed]

What I mean is you are to obey and follow Jesus. Did you know that when you obey and follow Jesus you will look like someone who is obeying the Law.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Yes I understand exactly what you are saying. You are saying we are to keep the law contrary to what Jesus taught.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

The Greek words for "law" and "commandment" can mean very general concepts, the same way we might use them in English.

 

[listed]

If you are not grafted in to Israel then you have no part of the New Covenant. The New Covenant was made to the house of Israel and we, who were not called God's people, can become God's people through the same covenant. The church did not replace Israel.

Simply not what the Scripture teaches, says nor implies. Christians are not required to keep the law (become as a Jew) to acquire or maintain salvation.

 

[listed]

The world is full of men who require of others that which they cannot satisfy themselves. Jesus spoke specifically against this.

At least they pretend to do as they preach only fooling themselves.

 

[listed]

Where in Scripture do you get the idea that gentiles are now part of Israel? Jews and gentiles are constantly contrasted throughout the New Testament, even when receiving similar blessings.

Why do you see God as simply someone stacking more and more rules upon His people? How does this lighten any burden?

Good question. Answering that is above their pay grade.

 

[listed]

Unclean animals are still unclean. They still have qualities that destroy our health. They may be lawful but they are still not helpful. God's wisdom, not His Law, tells me to abstain. The seventh day Sabbath is still the Lord's Day, we just have freedom in Christ to celebrate it without judgement for doing necessary things that pull you are from keeping it holy. Those who love God and are born of Him will not allow menial things to pull you away from honoring the seventh day Sabbath.

Nothing more than a misunderstanding and abuse of Scripture, unless of course you are a natural blood line Israeli or have entered their covenant through the rite of circumcision.

 

[listed]

Commandments enforced by the threat of death sure to me sounds like slavery on a level.

Got that right.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I'm sure there is some justification for letting all those jots and tittles fall away! Can't wait to hear it!

They flee to Grace when the Law becomes too cumbersome.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

They flee to Grace when the Law becomes too cumbersome.

We can hope!

 

[Elder 111]

Once more you ignore the rest of Scripture I showed and misrepresent even that which you showed.

There WERE Jews in the synagogue. Gentiles being there too does not mean that they were believing Christians: in fact the context points otherwise. Just that they happened to be there gives no indication that they were commanded to by a God whom they didn't know.

So why would the Gentles be there? Just to look at Jews?

Tell me, what is the day in Romans 14 if you so adamantly deny it is the Sabbath?

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
There is no"the day". Exactly what is refer to as "one day" is not specified and the context does not point to the Sabbath. There were days like passover and atonement that were holy days.

Find a single mention of Christians meeting by themselves, apart from trying to convert Jews (Remember, to win Jews, Paul acts like them, including this mandatory Saturday business) on the Sabbath and/or in a place other than a Jewish synagogue.

No Jew, no Synagogue. Outside in the open on the Sabbath with the Greeks.
Acts :16:
11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;
12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts has an expansion of the spreading of the Gospel. First it is spread in Jerusalem, nearly entirely Jewish save the Roman landlords. Next is Judea and Samaria, still prominently Jewish. Finally it is to the ends of the Earth, mostly gentiles.

You will find the Gospel preached to each peoples in a manner suitable to them.

Keep these legal precepts if you like, but know that the whole law judges you if you do.

Only the whole of the Ten Commandments. God would not Judge me on passover or circumcision for instance. as the same Acts would verify.

 

[Elder 111]

God commanded all the Law. That speaks nothing of its fulfillment. The New Testament is clear that the Law is a terrible burden, despite the fact that God gave it.

Show me where the NT says that the ten Commandments is a terrible burden!

 

[Elder 111]

No way it comes from God?

God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children.
- Galatians 4:5

That is where I got the "idea". What was Christ's purpose? According to Scripture it was to set us free from the Law!

If you maintain that the Law is still binding, did Christ then fail?

Serving God - good.
Abstaining from idols - good.
Loving others and not stealing, lying or killing - good.

Mandating the legalistic keeping of a Sabbath - not good, unless you wish to nullify the work of the Son of God

So only the Sabbath is the problem then!
The same commands that you have stated as Good God couple with the Sabbath, If God so put them together who are you or me to separate them!

 

[maco]

Show me where the NT says that the ten Commandments is a terrible burden!

Romano 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Elder 111]

Yes God does REALLY want to save us, knowing we cannot save ourselves. If you do want to try and and save yourself though, you got that part right, the requirement is perfection. When you are as perfect as God Himself, then you will have made yourself acceptable to God. Piece of cake, right?

Or you can believe and receive Jesus Christ, the Perfect One, whom God sent to save you. The choice is yours.

It is by recieving Jesus Christ that we are enabled to keep the Ten commandments.

 

[Elder 111]

If you are not grafted in to Israel then you have no part of the New Covenant. The New Covenant was made to the house of Israel and we, who were not called God's people, can become God's people through the same covenant. The church did not replace Israel.