An attempt to eliminate God.

[maco]

Truth matters

Really maco? Fact is; "under the law" refurs to someone who is under the Old Covenant which is the law.
maco, the scriptures stresses that Christians are not under the law.

Does this means that Christians are not under sin? NO.... sin is not an option.

The Law for us are founded on the life and teachings of Jesus...period. Jesus magnified the Law and made it honorable. Jesus taught us Orthopraxy. Remember, the Law defines sin, righteousness and godly love. Only one of these will be done away with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEi1oguUu7A

 

[maco]

This is a questionable passage, found only in later manuscripts. I'll throw that out there to begin with.

In this case, is the woman under a New Covenant, having been redeemed by the blood of Christ? That is the difference between a Jew and a Christian.

Let me ask you, do you keep every aspect of the Law and equally proponent each? If not, why the discrepancy?

This is a never-ending discussion on this site, I'm sure. However, if the slavery to law is something you wish, then you are welcome to it. I am a servant of Christ under the New Covenant sealed by His blood. The law was a guardian of us, helping us to find Christ, according to the Word of God. We no longer need that guardian according to the same word. If you take that to mean that we are still bound by this guardian, I do not see how.

You say I am in Babylon. I must deny that. I simply show people that this sort of legalism is exactly what the New Testament preaches against.

Those who are born of God love God's Law. They value what God values and love what God loves. There is no burden in obedience for those who love God. Take some time to read the heart of the man who was called the, Apple of God's eye and the man after God's own heart. It's found in Psalm 119.

The world is like it is today because we have thrown out God's Law.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7858234/#post66834903

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Those who are born of God love God's Law. They value what God values and love what God loves. There is no burden in obedience for those who love God. Take some time to read the heart of the man who was called the, Apple of God's eye and the man after God's own heart. It's found in Psalm 119.

The world is like it is today because we have thrown out God's Law.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7858234/#post66834903

The Bible does say that the Law IS a burden... one which the Jews discussing the issue and their fathers were all unable to bear. So your claim that it is no burden is wrong. It is in fact an impossible burden, otherwise Christ came for no reason.

Christ's burden, in contrast, is easy. His yoke is light. It therefore cannot be the same unbearable burden under which the Jews lived.

Stay under the unbearable burden if you wish. It seems nothing but legalism and the cheapening of Christ's blood.

 

[VictorC]

In my studies it has dawn on me that the attempt to have God's Holy Ten commandment law abolished is an attempt to abolish God.
I see that on so many levels.

1. Removal of God laws is the removal of His government. How can one rule with out Law? Which ruler does that?
2. To take down God's law one would have to take down God, the law giver!
3. New rules new ruler.
4. God's law is under His throne/mercy seat, to get to His law one would definitely have to move Him. That amounts to dethroning God!

We do not understand the extent of our advocating the abolition of the Ten commandments. Even the first 4 directly refer to God. When we remove these where is God? Where is His sovereignty/worship and dignity as God?

I shortened your OP and highlighted what I see as a problem.
It isn't any "we" who advocate the abolition of the Mosaic covenant - which as you know is what the Ten Commandments was (including the Book of the Law).
That is the action taken by God in His redemption, presented alternately by removing the recipients from the Law or taking the Law away, depending on which post-Calvary epistle you refer to. The loss of jurisdiction is the same result in either case - and as you know, that was necessary for the Gentile nations to recieve the blessings promised through Abraham 430 years before the Ten Commandments existed. You've seen all of these explanations in past posts.
The result of your OP is to argue that God acted to abolish Himself.
Even your bulleted points are nonsense based on fantasy.
This thread doesn't deserve further comment.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

The Law for us are founded on the life and teachings of Jesus...period.

This is partially true. The teachings of His disciples are also part of our instructions. The teachings of Moses, however, are for those under the Old Covenant.

Jesus magnified the Law and made it honorable.

You hold that "fulfill" means "add more rules to"?

Jesus taught us Orthopraxy. Remember, the Law defines sin, righteousness and godly love. Only one of these will be done away with.

Jesus taught us many things... a mere list of do's and don't's isn't it. The Law defines what Jews must do under the Mosaic Covenant. I don't remember reading that the Law is the definer of love.

Jesus' teachings are expanded by His disciples throughout the New Testament. Do you ignore Paul when he teaches that grace through faith saves, rather than "Orthopraxy"?

 

[maco]

This is partially true. The teachings of His disciples are also part of our instructions. The teachings of Moses, however, are for those under the Old Covenant.

You hold that "fulfill" means "add more rules to"?

Jesus taught us many things... a mere list of do's and don't's isn't it. The Law defines what Jews must do under the Mosaic Covenant. I don't remember reading that the Law is the definer of love.

Jesus' teachings are expanded by His disciples throughout the New Testament. Do you ignore Paul when he teaches that grace through faith saves, rather than "Orthopraxy"?

Grace is the absence of punishment not the absence of obedience. God's grace teaches us to live righteously and godly. Without grace we all would be done. Grace allows and promotes correction and growth, not disobedience and rebellion. If you keep trying to do away with the Law you will have trouble in the millennium. Remember, when Jesus comes back He is removing out of His kingdom those who practice lawlessness.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7858234/#post66834903

 

[maco]

The Bible does say that the Law IS a burden... one which the Jews discussing the issue and their fathers were all unable to bear. So your claim that it is no burden is wrong. It is in fact an impossible burden, otherwise Christ came for no reason.

Christ's burden, in contrast, is easy. His yoke is light. It therefore cannot be the same unbearable burden under which the Jews lived.

Stay under the unbearable burden if you wish. It seems nothing but legalism and the cheapening of Christ's blood.

The Law is no burden for those who love God and have His Spirit.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Ezekiel 36:25-28 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

You cannot be God's people with His Law.

 

[listed]

The Law for us are founded on the life and teachings of Jesus...period. Jesus magnified the Law and made it honorable. Jesus taught us Orthopraxy. Remember, the Law defines sin, righteousness and godly love. Only one of these will be done away with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEi1oguUu7A

Do you mean for us to understand that since Jesus kept the law Christians are also obligated to keep the law?

 

[maco]

Do you mean for us to understand that since Jesus kept the law Christians are also obligated to keep the law?

What I mean is you are to obey and follow Jesus. Did you know that when you obey and follow Jesus you will look like someone who is obeying the Law.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

The Law is no burden for those who love God and have His Spirit.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Ezekiel 36:25-28 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

You cannot be God's people with His Law.

You're right! The commandments God has for us under the New Covenant are not burdensome. Those under the old, however, were, according to the Bible at least.

Ezekiel speaking to Israel has what exactly to do with those under the New Covenant?

 

[listed]

Those who are born of God love God's Law. They value what God values and love what God loves. There is no burden in obedience for those who love God. Take some time to read the heart of the man who was called the, Apple of God's eye and the man after God's own heart. It's found in Psalm 119.

The world is like it is today because we have thrown out God's Law.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7858234/#post66834903

If the indeed were no burden why do you not observe it as written?

 

[Steeno7]

How we doing. We are all to get there, God wants to save us all.

Yes God does REALLY want to save us, knowing we cannot save ourselves. If you do want to try and and save yourself though, you got that part right, the requirement is perfection. When you are as perfect as God Himself, then you will have made yourself acceptable to God. Piece of cake, right?

Or you can believe and receive Jesus Christ, the Perfect One, whom God sent to save you. The choice is yours.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Grace is the absence of punishment not the absence of obedience. God's grace teaches us to live righteously and godly. Without grace we all would be done. Grace allows and promotes correction and growth, not disobedience and rebellion. If you keep trying to do away with the Law you will have trouble in the millennium. Remember, when Jesus comes back He is removing out of His kingdom those who practice lawlessness.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7858234/#post66834903

We certainly do not practice lawlessness. We are under the New Covenant, which does have a burden. This burden, according to Scripture, is a light one. So there is law, but not the impossible law of the Old Covenant.

You assume that anything short of the six hundred plus commands given to a specific people at a specific time must be pure rebellion. The Bible speaks otherwise. Did Paul descend into disobedience and rebelliousness when he ate that which wasn't kosher, or was that law not written with jots or tittles?

 

[maco]

You're right! The commandments God has for us under the New Covenant are not burdensome. Those under the old, however, were, according to the Bible at least.

Ezekiel speaking to Israel has what exactly to do with those under the New Covenant?

If you are not grafted in to Israel then you have no part of the New Covenant. The New Covenant was made to the house of Israel and we, who were not called God's people, can become God's people through the same covenant. The church did not replace Israel.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

If the indeed were no burden why do you not observe it as written?

The world is full of men who require of others that which they cannot satisfy themselves. Jesus spoke specifically against this.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

If you are not grafted in to Israel then you have no part of the New Covenant. The New Covenant was made to the house of Israel and we, who were not called God's people, can become God's people through the same covenant. The church did not replace Israel.

Where in Scripture do you get the idea that gentiles are now part of Israel? Jews and gentiles are constantly contrasted throughout the New Testament, even when receiving similar blessings.

Why do you see God as simply someone stacking more and more rules upon His people? How does this lighten any burden?

 

[listed]

The Bible does say that the Law IS a burden... one which the Jews discussing the issue and their fathers were all unable to bear. So your claim that it is no burden is wrong. It is in fact an impossible burden, otherwise Christ came for no reason.

Christ's burden, in contrast, is easy. His yoke is light. It therefore cannot be the same unbearable burden under which the Jews lived.

Stay under the unbearable burden if you wish. It seems nothing but legalism and the cheapening of Christ's blood.

Cheapening?? Nothing. Flat out doing away with the shed blood of Christ. Note the use and intention of Mat 19 and 1 Cor 7:19 by them.

 

[maco]

We certainly do not practice lawlessness. We are under the New Covenant, which does have a burden. This burden, according to Scripture, is a light one. So there is law, but not the impossible law of the Old Covenant.

You assume that anything short of the six hundred plus commands given to a specific people at a specific time must be pure rebellion. The Bible speaks otherwise. Did Paul descend into disobedience and rebelliousness when he ate that which wasn't kosher, or was that law not written with jots or tittles?

Unclean animals are still unclean. They still have qualities that destroy our health. They may be lawful but they are still not helpful. God's wisdom, not His Law, tells me to abstain. The seventh day Sabbath is still the Lord's Day, we just have freedom in Christ to celebrate it without judgement for doing necessary things that pull you are from keeping it holy. Those who love God and are born of Him will not allow menial things to pull you away from honoring the seventh day Sabbath.

 

[Cribstyl]

The Law for us are founded on the life and teachings of Jesus...period. Jesus magnified the Law and made it honorable. Jesus taught us Orthopraxy. Remember, the Law defines sin, righteousness and godly love. Only one of these will be done away with.

Clue:The law is spelled out in 613 commandments given by Moses. Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


The scriptures claim that the law served till the seed would come.
Gal 3:19
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Jesus said the law and the prophets were until John. Luk 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Unclean animals are still unclean. They still have qualities that destroy our health. They may be lawful but they are still not helpful. The seventh day Sabbath is still the Lord's Day, we just have freedom in Christ to celebrate it without judgement for doing necessary things that pull you are from keeping it holy. Those who love God and are born of Him will not allow menial things to pull you away from honoring the seventh day Sabbath.

In Acts 10, Peter was COMMANDED to eat that which was unclean! God was trying to destroy his health?

You still judge men based on the Law. There is no indication anywhere in the New Testament of Christian men celebrating the seventh day Sabbath apart from going to where they knew Jews would be and preaching Christ to whoever would hear. Yet if it is lawful to eat all things (Romans 14) and to see all days as equal (also Romans 14), those two being spoken in the same breath by Paul, how can you judge so?