An atheists world (2)

[CarlosTomy]

What was your point with this scripture?

Seems to me Jesus was hoping that God's plan didn't include these things.

The things it was said God didn't have in the plan.

 

[lasthero]

Undefined? really? I didn't realise. Well simply put, I.D occurred before the Universe existed. It was all designed in the mind of God and carefully thought out. That was the intelligent design stage. Then came the creation of it. Then came the disloyalty of a third of the Angels that started to wreck that creation. Then came mans EGO to destroy the rest of it. However part of the original I.D (design) had something built in, a way out of this mess through the designers Son.

Thank you for admitting that ID is just religion in disguise. So much for the 'unknown intelligent designer'.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Undefined? really? I didn't realise. Well simply put, I.D occurred before the Universe existed. It was all designed in the mind of God and carefully thought out. That was the intelligent design stage. Then came the creation of it. Then came the disloyalty of a third of the Angels that started to wreck that creation. Then came mans EGO to destroy the rest of it. However part of the original I.D (design) had something built in, a way out of this mess through the designers Son.

And yet you cannot define it either.

Various people call their beliefs "I.D." even though they are quite different.


Some believe in common descent, i.e. you share a common ancestor with an ape, a dog, a reptile, a fish, etc. etc. For others it is creationism in disguise.

Which of these two do you believe?

 

[Mr Strawberry]

It was not God's plan to have Jesus crucified any more than it was God's plan for Adam and Eve to sin. It was just the general course of how humans would react with free will.

God knew everything that would happen before he pressed the big red GO button to start creation (apparently), so not having the crucifixion as part of his plan to begin with isn't an option.

How can a person commit suicide when someone else kills them?

Depends if your plan is to get yourself killed or not. God's plan was for jesus to be killed. As jesus is god in human form on Earth then suicide is as good a word as any for it, or would be if death was a possible outcome, which it clearly wasn;t, therefore it is best described as a suicide gesture, a pantomime in other words. And what would have happened if jesus had been let off by the romans and told not to do it again. That's sort of a major disaster for your religion isn't it? Was that ever a real option in the story?

If God became a man that can die, how do you then come up with the idea that he can't die?

He's god, he can't die. And just to prove it your story has him rising again - clearly not dead.

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In essence sinned against God. How is it they just "ate and apple"?

Sinned against god...which he knew would happen (apparently) before he even started the universe. If anyone had a choice about the apple it was god. He could create the universe with the apple being eaten, or he could not create it and no apple would exist to be eaten. His choice. OR he could make a universe where he knew beforehand that the apple would not be eaten. He chose option 1. God is responsible in your story. No-one else. Any attempt to lay the blame elsewhere is so much hooey.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Sinned against god...which he knew would happen (apparently) before he even started the universe. If anyone had a choice about the apple it was god. He could create the universe with the apple being eaten, or he could not create it and no apple would exist to be eaten. His choice. OR he could make a universe where he knew beforehand that the apple would not be eaten. He chose option 1. God is responsible in your story. No-one else. Any attempt to lay the blame elsewhere is so much hooey.

It doesn't take an all-powerful, all-knowing deity to realise that creating creatures without any concept of right or wrong and then placing forbidden fruit within their reach is not a good idea. It doesn't take divine foresight to figure out what's going to happen.

 

[mzungu]

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In essence sinned against God. How is it they just "ate and apple"?

Ah yes; let's keep em ignorant so as better to control them. Meanwhile we tell them they have free will and when they exercise it we punish them for eternity. This is the exact definition of a Dictatorship.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Ah yes; let's keep em ignorant so as better to control them. Meanwhile we tell them they have free will and when they exercise it we punish them for eternity. This is the exact definition of a Dictatorship.

dictatorship[ dik-tey-ter-ship, dik-tey- ]
noun
1. a country, government, or the form of government in which absolute power is exercised by a dictator.
2. absolute, imperious, or overbearing power or control.
3. the office or position held by a dictator.


sov·er·eign
/'säv(?)r?n/
Noun
A supreme ruler, esp. a monarch.
Adjective
Possessing supreme or ultimate power: "the people's will is in theory sovereign".
Synonyms
noun. monarch - ruler - king - lord - potentate
adjective. paramount - supreme - independent


Big Difference.

 

[Subduction Zone]

dictatorship[ dik-tey-ter-ship, dik-tey- ]
noun
1. a country, government, or the form of government in which absolute power is exercised by a dictator.
2. absolute, imperious, or overbearing power or control.
3. the office or position held by a dictator.


sov·er·eign
/'säv(?)r?n/
Noun
A supreme ruler, esp. a monarch.
Adjective
Possessing supreme or ultimate power: "the people's will is in theory sovereign".
Synonyms
noun. monarch - ruler - king - lord - potentate
adjective. paramount - supreme - independent


Big Difference.

What is the difference? That the dictionary definition is applied to a single country?
I don't think that is all that large of a difference.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

What is the difference? That the dictionary definition is applied to a single country?
I don't think that is all that large of a difference.

That's your concept of a god. God is beyond large.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's your concept of a god. God is beyond large.

Really?

Your concept of God seems rather petty to me.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

Really?

Your concept of God seems rather petty to me.

Thats what the B.I.B.L.E. tells me. Thanks for confirming its truth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thats what the B.I.B.L.E. tells me. Thanks for confirming its truth.

No problem, and I guess the truth is ugly.

At least we agree that the God of the Bible is petty, vindictive, and immature.

Of course so were the people that invented him.

 

[nuttypiglet]

So iD is a religious myth?

Am I to take that response seriously? seriously?
Why would you conclude it to be a myth? It's all down to interpretation. Let me give you the two sides of the fence.

1. Grown men sit around a table with a bucket of clay, making tiny fossil fragments into something they need as a transitional specie. They cannot accept the possibility that life was created.
2. Grown men look at the complexity of life, the fact it has a huge code and with no supporting evidence to show it came about by chance, they conclude it was created, just like microsoft windows. Those men look at the Universe as a whole, the complete picture with everything in it, and look at the number of 'just so happens to be that way' comments associated with so many tight tolerances.

So my conclusion is, there are those who can see and accept so many things could not occur by chance, and those who are narrow minded and believe they can provide a different answer.

Now, where's the myth in that? Do you say that Jesus didn't exist?

 

[nuttypiglet]

Ah yes; let's keep em ignorant so as better to control them. Meanwhile we tell them they have free will and when they exercise it we punish them for eternity. This is the exact definition of a Dictatorship.

Hmm such narrow mindedness
God allows you to question his ways, even though he will prove he is right through his wisdom. A dictator will have you shot if you question him. We still have free will. Does God punish you for deciding you need refreshment? Does God punish you for allowing yourself to fall in love? Do you decide when you go to sleep? Of course we have free will. What you are referring to is applying free will in stupidity. God said "Eat that fruit and you will DIE". Not hard is it. However, we did fail and we have to die. Now, God in his love sacrificed his only Son to give us another chance, but there's obviously a rule. If you don't believe in his Son, then you are not the type of person he wants, you are simply too narrow minded to accept truth.

 

[lasthero]

Grown men sit around a table with a bucket of clay, making tiny fossil fragments into something they need as a transitional specie. They cannot accept the possibility that life was created.

This is a strawman. We've found way more than just a few 'tiny fragments'. And many of those grown men do believe life was created by God, and that evolution was the mechanism by which it diversified.

Grown men look at the complexity of life

Define 'complex'.

 

[toolmanjantzi]

No problem, and I guess the truth is ugly.

At least we agree that the God of the Bible is petty, vindictive, and immature.

Of course so were the people that invented him.

According to Isaiah the truth was not to be desired by man.

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (Isaiah 53:2 KJV)

 

[Subduction Zone]

According to Isaiah the truth was not to be desired by man.

For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (Isaiah 53:2 KJV)

Thanks for pointing out another error in the Bible.

 

[nuttypiglet]

Are you sure about that? OK, well let's run with that thought...

Right. This is where he rolls up his sleeves is it?

Hang on, I thought you said it was all perfectly thought out beforehand...

This doesn't sound like it's going according to plan to me. Still, being omniscient he must have known every detail of this before he started the project, so he must OK with it. Must be what he wanted or he wouldn't have started.

Oh yes, we've covered that. God's big suicide gesture in order to allow himself to forgive his own creation for eating an apple, which obviously he couldn't have done without the big performance. And this guy is supposed to be intelligent is he?

Is that it? That is your definition of intelligent design?

Oh my goodness, no wonder you believe evolution over God, your ignorance is astounding. You should learn about something before commenting on it, you look very silly indeed. So, allow me to go over the faults of your comments.
Firstly, YES a creation can be wrecked, but God knew one family would remain faithful. The Father of that family was Noah, and EVERYONE else basically turned against God to worship the fallen Angels which were teaching them agriculture, architecture, metallurgy etc etc, even the wheel.
If you turn against God, he will not force you to worship him, it's your choice. So, this is the point of the sacrifice. Either you are thankful for a way out, back to eternal life, or you are egotistic and choose to ignore God. Simple.
Yes God is intelligent, he created all things. I am intelligent too, because I can see that with my own eyes. Oh and by the way, perhaps you can show me where an APPLE was the forbidden fruit? I would love to see that.
It was the best looking fruit in the garden as a temptation, and I hardly believe an apple would fit the bill.

 

[lasthero]

the fallen Angels which were teaching them agriculture, architecture, metallurgy etc etc, even the wheel.

Those monsters! How dare they...teach us things!

 

[createdtoworship]

Then you have no clue.

He showed that the questions you here in the movie were not the questions asked in the movie were not the questions that Dawkins was asked in real life.

I am not sure I believe the video you presented, have transcripts? Even if major parts of interviews are removed that is not considered a lie. Thus video editors are all liars right?