An Argument for the Existence of the Christian God

[trientje]

You're assuming we've never tried it.

I do not know your history therefore I do not assume anything. I'm just trying to explain to you about God. If you know about hell then you are not far from knowing that God loves you and wants you to come to him and at least sincerely ask him if he is real and ask him to reveal himself to you. And if you have done that in the past then you need to examine your intentions. He knows your heart so therefore he knows your intentions. If you are truly seeking him and you are alone in this then it might be a good idea to find a church and go and just listen to what is being said. Or go to a friend who knows the Lord and talk to him or her. I sit pretty much alone, my husband started with "I don't believe all that stuff" to now he says he believes in God but won't go to church. With him its a simple matter of pride. He doesn't want to admit that there is a God that is the supreme ruler so he refuses to submit himself to him. I experience fellowship and support from those in my church.

 

[Gadarene]

I do not know your history therefore I do not assume anything. I'm just trying to explain to you about God. If you know about hell then you are not far from knowing that God loves you

I only brought that up because I find it sickeningly hilarious who Christians that apparently believe in a place of eternal torture for nonbelievers will be so blasé about not trying to justify their faith.

At least try and look like you actually believe it.

and wants you to come to him and at least sincerely ask him if he is real and ask him to reveal himself to you. And if you have done that in the past then you need to examine your intentions. He knows your heart so therefore he knows your intentions. If you are truly seeking him and you are alone in this then it might be a good idea to find a church and go and just listen to what is being said. Or go to a friend who knows the Lord and talk to him or her. I sit pretty much alone, my husband started with "I don't believe all that stuff" to now he says he believes in God but won't go to church. With him its a simple matter of pride. He doesn't want to admit that there is a God that is the supreme ruler so he refuses to submit himself to him. I experience fellowship and support from those in my church.

Already did that.

Didn't work.

What next?

 

[trientje]

I only brought that up because I find it sickeningly hilarious who Christians that apparently believe in a place of eternal torture for nonbelievers will be so blasé about not trying to justify their faith.

At least try and look like you actually believe it.



Already did that.

Didn't work.

What next?

And just how do you want me to justify my faith? If I was" blase" about hell I wouldn't have decided to try to believe that your truly seeking and tell you about God. I don't want to see anyone parish because of non belief. Would you care to tell me about when you approached God?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

What would you say to someone of another faith that would say the exact same thing back to you - that you're blind to their god?

I know by Him who dwells in me that there is only One True God, and His Word Jesus Christ. We who are born of Him have His Spirit dwelling in us, which is the Spirit of Truth who is also called the Comforter.

God's Spirit brings love, joy, and peace to our hearts, and also cleanses our hearts and minds from all uncleaness and evil thoughts which brings forth all manner of sin. God's Spirit keeps us from that Wicked one who also causes the world to live in sin, and under the bondage of darkness.

If another person claimed their faith, and their god to be true over that of the only True God and His Christ. I would ask that person to look within themselves and see if their thoughts are pure and clean and full of Light.

If their thoughts are lustful and evil by reason of that darkness then their faith is in vain, and they have not the Love of the Truth dwelling in them.

Let all men judge themselves and see if that Light of the world truly dwells in them. If not, then they are only fooling themselves, and their faith in their own religion is in vain.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I know by Him who dwells in me that there is only One True God, and His Word Jesus Christ. We who are born of Him have His Spirit dwelling in us, which is the Spirit of Truth who is also called the Comforter.

God's Spirit brings love, joy, and peace to our hearts, and also cleanses our hearts and minds from all uncleaness and evil thoughts which brings forth all manner of sin. God's Spirit keeps us from that Wicked one who also causes the world to live in sin, and under the bondage of darkness.

If another person claimed their faith, and their god to be true over that of the only True God and His Christ. I would ask that person to look within themselves and see if their thoughts are pure and clean and full of Light.

If their thoughts are lustful and evil by reason of that darkness then their faith is in vain, and they have not the Love of the Truth dwelling in them.

Let all men judge themselves and see if that Light of the world truly dwells in them. If not, then they are only fooling themselves, and their faith in their own religion is in vain.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

I don't see how that furthers the conversation. Because the person of the other faith will have their own spiel, and will use similar language to try and get you to look deep inside yourself and see the error of your ways. Without something other than faith to offer up in evidence of your position, how can there be any dialog at all? You're just talking at each other.

 

[trientje]

I don't see how that furthers the conversation. Because the person of the other faith will have their own spiel, and will use similar language to try and get you to look deep inside yourself and see the error of your ways. Without something other than faith to offer up in evidence of your position, how can there be any dialog at all? You're just talking at each other.

We are talking about Christianity. If you are wondering about other faiths such as Muslim, then you need to talk to a Muslim. As far as the Jewish faith, Christianity sprung from the Jewish faith. They just don't believe that Jesus is the messiah. Something other than faith? Read your bible, study its history, associate with other believers and learn from them. Just like you would associate with other atheists and learn from them. Then, after you have explored Christianity then decide what you want to believe.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I don't see how that furthers the conversation. Because the person of the other faith will have their own spiel, and will use similar language to try and get you to look deep inside yourself and see the error of your ways. Without something other than faith to offer up in evidence of your position, how can there be any dialog at all? You're just talking at each other.

There are many beliefs but there is only One Truth. Men can proclaim their religion as true, but if they don't see the effects of its power working inwardly (changing their hearts and minds from darkness to light) then what power does their god have over evil?

The Word of God is not just words written with ink on paper, but when applied to ones life by faith they have power, which is also manifest inwardly by way of the Holy Spirit from God.

Men can fool others by saying what they will, but when it comes to looking within themselves, and searching out and denying their own evil hearts and minds, then who are they really fooling?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

There are many beliefs but there is only One Truth. Men can proclaim their religion as true, but if they don't see the effects of its power working inwardly (changing their hearts and minds from darkness to light) then what power does their god have over evil?

The Word of God is not just words written with ink on paper, but when applied to ones life by faith they have power, which is also manifest inwardly by way of the Holy Spirit from God.

Men can fool others by saying what they will, but when it comes to looking within themselves, and searching out and denying their own evil hearts and minds, then who are they really fooling?

I'm not making myself clear I see...

What I'm saying is that no matter what you're saying, someone of another religion is going to say something extremely similar. They'll say that your religion is false and theirs is the One Truth. They'll talk about the power of their religion and the lack of power of yours. They'll talk about the fact that you're actually fooling yourself and that without their religion you'll continue to have an evil heart and mind.

In the end, you're just playing dueling banjos with someone of another religion. Specifically because the only thing you're working with is unsubstantiated faith.

But...

What if the other person performed what seemed to be an undeniable miracle in front of you and said that it was the the power of their god that made it possible? What if a third party were observing you and the person of the other religion? Wouldn't they be more swayed by the miracle than claims of faith?

 

[trientje]

I'm not making myself clear I see...

What I'm saying is that no matter what you're saying, someone of another religion is going to say something extremely similar. They'll say that your religion is false and theirs is the One Truth. They'll talk about the power of their religion and the lack of power of yours. They'll talk about the fact that you're actually fooling yourself and that without their religion you'll continue to have an evil heart and mind.

In the end, you're just playing dueling banjos with someone of another religion. Specifically because the only thing you're working with is unsubstantiated faith.

But...




What if the other person performed what seemed to be an undeniable miracle in front of you and said that it was the the power of their god that made it possible? What if a third party were observing you and the person of the other religion? Wouldn't they be more swayed by the miracle than claims of faith?

OK, maybe I'm understanding you better. So lets see. I noticed you mentioned the word religion at least 5 times in your above statement. Don't look to religion. Look to God. Go straight to the source. Its not about you and religion its about you and a personal relationship with God. Look, I was raised Catholic/Jewish and had my fill of doctrine. I was confused and looked at God as a big bad judgmental person in the sky who was going to clobber me for just about anything I did. And I had a time in my life where I walked away from God. I never stopped believing but I was mad at him and shook my fist at him because he didn't do what I thought he was supposed to do. It didn't work out to well for me. I ended up living in ways that were hurtful to me and did a lot of dumb stupid things. Until one day I completely collapsed and fell on my knees and begged for forgiveness. You see, as long as your still alive you have the opportunity to change your course and choose to live with God as your Father. If you die as a sinner or an atheist then the die is cast. By the way, we are all sinners. Except the people who have accepted Jesus as their saviour have been forgiven. Now, I just shared my faith with you. Something I said I wouldn't do. I'm trusting that you will respect what I have written and not try to tear it apart and disrespect my story as many atheists do.

 

[Elioenai26]

I don't see how that furthers the conversation. Because the person of the other faith will have their own spiel, and will use similar language to try and get you to look deep inside yourself and see the error of your ways. Without something other than faith to offer up in evidence of your position, how can there be any dialog at all? You're just talking at each other.

If Jesus Christ came to you right where you are and declared to you that He is Lord and God, would you fall down and worship Him, and seek wholeheartedly to serve Him for the rest of your days? Would you seek to deny yourself, pick up your cross as He commands, and follow Him. Would you love and reference Him as your Creator if He gave you this "evidence" you desire?

 

[Gadarene]

If Jesus Christ came to you right where you are and declared to you that He is Lord and God, would you fall down and worship Him, and seek wholeheartedly to serve Him for the rest of your days? Would you seek to deny yourself, pick up your cross as He commands, and follow Him. Would you love and reference Him as your Creator if He gave you this "evidence" you desire?

It might solve the matter of his existence but not of whether he is worthy to be followed.

They are of course two completely different matters.

 

[mathetes123]

is the Islamic philosophical discipline of seeking theological principles through dialectic If you want to discuss Kalam then go to a muslim site.

What does my response have to do with Islam? I was referring to fulfilled biblical prophecy.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I'm not making myself clear I see...

What I'm saying is that no matter what you're saying, someone of another religion is going to say something extremely similar. They'll say that your religion is false and theirs is the One Truth. They'll talk about the power of their religion and the lack of power of yours. They'll talk about the fact that you're actually fooling yourself and that without their religion you'll continue to have an evil heart and mind.

In the end, you're just playing dueling banjos with someone of another religion. Specifically because the only thing you're working with is unsubstantiated faith.

But...

What if the other person performed what seemed to be an undeniable miracle in front of you and said that it was the the power of their god that made it possible? What if a third party were observing you and the person of the other religion? Wouldn't they be more swayed by the miracle than claims of faith?

I understand what you are saying about other persons and religions making claims of salvation. But if every man would look within himself and truly be honest with themselves then they might see what effect their belief truly has on his or her own life. Just as you will know a tree by the fruit that it bears, a sinner will also sin and will have evil thoughts and evil works brought forth by those same evil thoughts.

No other religion offers a personal relationship with their Creator, meaning God will truly dwell within that man by way of His Spirit. When this happens it cannot be mistaken because that man is then given a new heart and mind by way of God's Spirit (changing one's thoughts from the power of darkness and evil, to the power of Light and righteousness.)

As far as signs and wonders go Jesus said a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. Jesus also said not to judge things based on appearances, which is as the world judges. We are also told that the false prophets of this world would also deceive many with all their signs and lying wonders, much like many in these last days are also deceived and led astray by all the amazing works of modern day technology, and all the deceptive doctrines of mans own theories and science, which is nothing more than man's own wisdom proclaiming itself above the wisdom and knowledge of God.

 

[trientje]

It might solve the matter of his existence but not of whether he is worthy to be followed.

They are of course two completely different matters.

]It might solve the matter of his existence but not of whether he is worthy to be followed.

Are they two different matters? God proves his existence. You know that he is God but still question whether he is worthy to be followed? And who would judge whether he is worthy to be followed? You? And if that is true then you are going to judge God? Please explain further.

 

[The Engineer]

As far as signs and wonders go Jesus said a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. Jesus also said not to judge things based on appearances, which is as the world judges.

So God gave us senses, but he doesn't want us to use them?

We are also told that the false prophets of this world would also deceive many with all their signs and lying wonders, much like many in these last days are also deceived and led astray by all the amazing works of modern day technology, and all the deceptive doctrines of mans own theories and science, which is nothing more than man's own wisdom proclaiming itself above the wisdom and knowledge of God.

We are not proclaiming our wisdom above the wisdom of God, we are claiming that God's wisdom doesn't exist, nor does he exist.

Are they two different matters? God proves his existence. You know that he is God but still question whether he is worthy to be followed? And who would judge whether he is worthy to be followed? You? And if that is true then you are going to judge God? Please explain further.

Just because God exists doesn't mean we can't apply our rules of morality to him. Judging him is entirely possible.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

We are not proclaiming our wisdom above the wisdom of God, we are claiming that God's wisdom doesn't exist, nor does he exist.

Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

 

[Gadarene]

Psalm 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Well, that last one is definitely wrong, and there are definitely nonbelievers who don't meet the first two so looks like the Bible is wrong there.

 

[Gadarene]

Are they two different matters? God proves his existence. You know that he is God but still question whether he is worthy to be followed?

Yes. Knowledge of the existence something does not necessarily involve knowledge of the existent thing's behaviour.

And who would judge whether he is worthy to be followed? You? And if that is true then you are going to judge God? Please explain further.

Yes. It's my decision, who else is going to do it?

 

[trientje]

So God gave us senses, but he doesn't want us to use them?

We are not proclaiming our wisdom above the wisdom of God, we are claiming that God's wisdom doesn't exist, nor does he exist.


Just because God exists doesn't mean we can't apply our rules of morality to him. Judging him is entirely possible.

Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Well, that last one is definitely wrong, and there are definitely nonbelievers who don't meet the first two so looks like the Bible is wrong there.

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.