Amish Survived COVID Better Than Most by Never Locking Down, Shuttering Churches

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Buddha said God is real


Only… God is less than his reputation


(I don't know)

Buddha also said there is no God - the point being that beliefs in the existence or non-existence of God are just empty beliefs; what matters is understanding and coming to terms with yourself.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The transition to Buddhism was slow and difficult

Starting early in life and moving away from normal concerns

I don't recommend Buddhism

Maybe you're doing it wrong...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

No, we don't. We have estimations.

That's generally as good as it gets with diseases like Covid. It's often impossible to say that someone 'died of Covid' - they typically die of problems that Covid probably caused or contributed to, e.g. pneumonia. Excess deaths provide a good estimate of the number of people who probably wouldn't have died if there had been no pandemic.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Buddha also said there is no God

The Thirty-one Planes of Existence

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Thanks for all that data you collated. I'm sure that some people will be interested to read it all.

Laughing. But apparently not those who made authoritative statements without any numbers at all, like you did.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

That's generally as good as it gets with diseases like Covid. It's often impossible to say that someone 'died of Covid' - they typically die of problems that Covid probably caused or contributed to, e.g. pneumonia. Excess deaths provide a good estimate of the number of people who probably wouldn't have died if there had been no pandemic.

Exactly. We don't know. But when it suits the agenda of moving some product by the billions of dollars, suddenly it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and "the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals!!!"

Reality would - and will eventually - tell a different story. It is likely that Great Grandma who had diabetes, arthritis, and cancer, didn't "die of Covid" as the media is screeching constantly. She may have contracted Covid on top of all her comorbidities and probably as a hospital gift that arose because of all her other conditions (we know they pass c diff along to patients regularly). Or maybe she only tested positive and it played zero role in her death from other causes. But all are counted as "covid deaths".

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Exactly. We don't know. But when it suits the agenda of moving some product by the billions of dollars, suddenly it is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and "the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals!!!"

Here in the UK, nearly 80% on those 12+years are fully vaccinated. Only about 1.5% of deaths involving Covid (on the death certificate) are in the fully vaccinated, so the 20% not-fully-vaccinated accounts for over 98% of deaths involving Covid.

Of those in hospital with positive Covid symptoms and tests, the not-fully-vaccinated 20% accounts for about half of admissions.

Notably, the 'not-fully-vaccinated' includes a majority of those with only a single jab, who do have some protection against the virus.

Reality would - and will eventually - tell a different story. It is likely that Great Grandma who had diabetes, arthritis, and cancer, didn't "die of Covid" as the media is screeching constantly. She may have contracted Covid on top of all her comorbidities and probably as a hospital gift that arose because of all her other conditions (we know they pass c diff along to patients regularly). Or maybe she only tested positive and it played zero role in her death from other causes. But all are counted as "covid deaths".

That's true to a degree, there will inevitably be some overestimation using excess deaths, but the percentage of those with existential morbidities has dropped considerably since the first wave - a large proportion of those that died early were the elderly and vulnerable with comorbidities.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Here in the UK, nearly 80% on those 12+years are fully vaccinated. Only about 1.5% of deaths involving Covid (on the death certificate) are in the fully vaccinated, so the 20% not-fully-vaccinated accounts for over 98% of deaths involving Covid.

Of those in hospital with positive Covid symptoms and tests, the not-fully-vaccinated 20% accounts for about half of admissions.

Notably, the 'not-fully-vaccinated' includes a majority of those with only a single jab, who do have some protection against the virus.

That's true to a degree, there will inevitably be some overestimation using excess deaths, but the percentage of those with existential morbidities has dropped considerably since the first wave - a large proportion of those that died early were the elderly and vulnerable with comorbidities.

That's not what we are hearing:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf

A report published Friday by the UK government agency Public Health England reveals individuals who received a COVID-19 vaccine are more than three times more likely to die from the Delta variant than unvaccinated people.

Regarding the most dangerous variant, the Delta, the UK government admits vaccinated people are 3.25 times more likely to die than those who did not take the experimental shot.

Out of 117 total deaths occurring within 28 days of infection, 44 of them were unvaccinated individuals.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

That's not what we are hearing:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_17.pdf

A report published Friday by the UK government agency Public Health England reveals individuals who received a COVID-19 vaccine are more than three times more likely to die from the Delta variant than unvaccinated people.

Regarding the most dangerous variant, the Delta, the UK government admits vaccinated people are 3.25 times more likely to die than those who did not take the experimental shot.

Out of 117 total deaths occurring within 28 days of infection, 44 of them were unvaccinated individuals.

You'll have to point me to the specific part of the report that gives those figures, because the 'Variants of Concern' document you linked gives these figures:

Again, bear in mind that, over this period, the un-fully-vaccinated population % decreased to around 20%.

 

[JohnEmmett]

long term you could survive the virus

 

[JohnEmmett]

you take your chances either way

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I guess if you look long enough then you'll find something to support whatever view you have.

'The Amish communities of northeast Ohio engage in textbook communal living. Families eat, work and go to church together, and through the pandemic, mask-wearing and social distancing have been spotty. As a result, these communities have experienced some of the state's highest rates of infection and deaths.' COVID-19 Has Hit The Amish Community Hard. Still, Vaccines Are A Tough Sell

'Claims on social media that the Amish population has not been affected by COVID-19 are false. Such claims have been used to suggest that vaccines are futile.' Fact Check-Amish communities have been affected by the COVID-19 pandemic

That took me all of a few seconds to find. Now either you copied your info from some social media site or you would have known about those two reports (almost the first two that come up if you search 'Amish covid'.

We generally expect some doubling down at this stage.

All your link says in terms of numbers is this: "The research found seven members of the community tested positive for COVID-19 in early May 2020. This prompted an additional 30 people to get tested, with 23 (77%) returning positive results."

Ok? Did they die? Did the entire community get hospitalized or die? What are the real numbers? Your links do not say anything specific. The entire second article merely mocks social media post that suggest the Amish were not heavily affected though they did not stop meeting and finally gets to the snippet above, which says basically nothing.

Just the past couple weeks, triple vaxxed Emhoff, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Jen Psaki, and others have been positive AND symptomatic yet again.

So you are going to have to do better than social media mockery to demonstrate that the Amish suffered serious hospitalization and death rates, because I'm not seeing that.

The best this Reuters article could do is summarize the mockery and "fact check" that the Amish "have been affected". Ok. what does that mean in terms of hospitalizations and deaths?

This article with the scary headline actually says nothing inside the content: "The team emphasized that these deaths may or may not be directly related to COVID-19; however, the excess death rates among the Amish/Mennonites mirrored the general COVID-19 infection waves in the United States. Researchers did not access official death certificates (which do not indicate religion/faith) and obituaries usually lacked the cause of death."

So the "researchers" don't have any idea why people died and of what but still are happy to proclaim speculation as fact.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

All your link says in terms of numbers is this: "The research found seven members of the community tested positive for COVID-19 in early May 2020. This prompted an additional 30 people to get tested, with 23 (77%) returning positive results."

Ok? Did they die? Did the entire community get hospitalized or die? What are the real numbers? Your links do not say anything specific. The entire second article merely mocks social media post that suggest the Amish were not heavily affected though they did not stop meeting and finally gets to the snippet above, which says basically nothing.

Just the past couple weeks, triple vaxxed Emhoff, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Jen Psaki, and others have been positive AND symptomatic yet again.

So you are going to have to do better than social media mockery to demonstrate that the Amish suffered serious hospitalization and death rates, because I'm not seeing that.

The best this Reuters article could do is summarize the mockery and "fact check" that the Amish "have been affected". Ok. what does that mean in terms of hospitalizations and deaths?

This article with the scary headline actually says nothing inside the content: "The team emphasized that these deaths may or may not be directly related to COVID-19; however, the excess death rates among the Amish/Mennonites mirrored the general COVID-19 infection waves in the United States. Researchers did not access official death certificates (which do not indicate religion/faith) and obituaries usually lacked the cause of death."

So the "researchers" don't have any idea why people died and of what but still are happy to proclaim speculation as fact.

Meh - no method of assessing Covid deaths is accurate due to a number of factors, particularly the association with comorbidities, but excess deaths are a statistically validated and widely accepted way of assessing the overall impact of Covid on the death rate.

 

[Bradskii]

All your link says in terms of numbers is this: "The research found seven members of the community tested positive for COVID-19 in early May 2020. This prompted an additional 30 people to get tested, with 23 (77%) returning positive results."

Ok? Did they die? Did the entire community get hospitalized or die? What are the real numbers? Your links do not say anything specific. The entire second article merely mocks social media post that suggest the Amish were not heavily affected though they did not stop meeting and finally gets to the snippet above, which says basically nothing.

Just the past couple weeks, triple vaxxed Emhoff, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Jen Psaki, and others have been positive AND symptomatic yet again.

So you are going to have to do better than social media mockery to demonstrate that the Amish suffered serious hospitalization and death rates, because I'm not seeing that.

The best this Reuters article could do is summarize the mockery and "fact check" that the Amish "have been affected". Ok. what does that mean in terms of hospitalizations and deaths?

This article with the scary headline actually says nothing inside the content: "The team emphasized that these deaths may or may not be directly related to COVID-19; however, the excess death rates among the Amish/Mennonites mirrored the general COVID-19 infection waves in the United States. Researchers did not access official death certificates (which do not indicate religion/faith) and obituaries usually lacked the cause of death."

So the "researchers" don't have any idea why people died and of what but still are happy to proclaim speculation as fact.

It took you five months to post a response that does nothing to back up your original claim? Colour me 'not interested'.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It took you five months to post a response that does nothing to back up your original claim? Colour me 'not interested'.

Never noticed it was an older post. I don't get here very often.

I know you can't defend those tiny numbers anyway. And I can't find any higher ones. People "had infections". I could not find that more than one died and three were hospitalized. Sounds pretty fair for a community that distanced only briefly.

 

[Aaron112]

But contracting this virus does not automatically equal serious illness, much less death. Most people survive. Most seriously ill people do recover. Some do not. The Amish were willing to take their chances, let the virus spread, and see what happened. They’re ok with dying. They’re ok with taking care of their sick relatives at home. It doesn’t look as though their society collapsed.

Likewise other groups/ countries who did what was right and not only survived well but did not suffer the devastating effects of shutdowns and the increased deaths from isolation.

 

[Aaron112]

Never noticed it was an older post. I don't get here very often.

I know you can't defend those tiny numbers anyway. And I can't find any higher ones. People "had infections". I could not find that more than one died and three were hospitalized. Sounds pretty fair for a community that distanced only briefly.

"Those numbers" , in politics and media, are , well, used to prove a particular groups point using statistics that could more easily prove the opposite as well..... Those in power use the power they have over media to control it.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It took you five months to post a response that does nothing to back up your original claim? Colour me 'not interested'.

Did not notice the time lapse. And yes, I well supported my assertions, as I always do.

You are just dismissing what you don't want to hear and cannot address. The mainstream is not going to study them, of course, as it refutes the narrative:

"an Amish Mennonite named Calvin Lapp, explained: “There are three things the Amish don’t like: And that’s government; they won’t get involved in government. They don’t like the public education system; they won’t send their children to education. And ... they also don’t like the health system.”

“Those three things are all part of what COVID is,” he said. Attkisson noted that “after a short shutdown last year, the Amish chose a unique path that led to COVID-19 tearing through at warp speed.” The community gathered for a religious celebration in May 2020, where they all took communion.

Lapp then described how the Amish take communion: “They dunk their wine into a cup, and they take turns to drink out of the cup. So you go the whole way down the line and everybody drinks out of that cup, so if one person has coronavirus, the rest of the church is going to get coronavirus.”

While he acknowledged that “everybody got coronavirus,” Lapp defended the community’s approach: “It’s a worse thing to quit working than dying. But to shut down and say that we can’t go to church, we can’t get together with family, we can’t see our old people in the hospital, we got to quit working … it’s going completely against everything that we believe.”

The really relevant part: On OCTOBER 2021: "About a year after the coronavirus pandemic first broke out in the U.S., national news outlets and The Associated Press wire service reported that the Lancaster County Amish community had reached herd immunity, meaning that “a large part of the population had been infected with COVID-19 and became immune.”

While AP reported on this, lots of fear-based phrasing was included, along with this honesty: "Cases now are rare. Hoover said Tuesday that the center hasn’t had a patient present with COVID-19 symptoms in roughly six weeks.

‘You’d actually have to test the herd’

Epidemiologists from the University of Pittsburgh, Washington State, Johns Hopkins, Emory and the University of California all said a widespread outbreak leading to herd immunity in the Plain community would be rare, but possible.

“It’s extremely unusual,” Lofgren, at Washington State University, said of herd immunity to COVID-19. “It would be the first general population in the United States that’s done it.”

So what happened since: Did Lancaster's large Amish population get hit again and again like the general population who went another route: No, I find no evidence of another outbreak after 2021 or lots of deaths (AMONG AMISH) and with the shilling going on in 2021, that would have been front page, 24/7 reporting.

 

[Aaron112]

“It’s extremely unusual,” Lofgren, at Washington State University, said of herd immunity to COVID-19. “It would be the first general population in the United States that’s done it.”

Do you believe this is true or false, right or wrong ?
I believe there were many (mostly small) groups and families (large and small)
that lived in a way that they had immunity , even a century ago, or more, from many problems....
they are shunned, banned, or ignored overall
because they don't go along with the state.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Do you believe this is true or false, right or wrong ?
I believe there were many (mostly small) groups and families (large and small)
that lived in a way that they had immunity , even a century ago, or more, from many problems....
they are shunned, banned, or ignored overall
because they don't go along with the state.

It may well be true the the Amish were the first population to get herd immunity from Covid, but that's the point.

The general population did one thing (fear, distance, masking, different new drugs); the Amish (and about 30% of the rest of the population - but many without the healthy habits of the Amish) did the opposite.

The Amish were done 2 years earlier than everyone else with immunity.