America's Poor Live Better Than Most Of Humanity

[dies-l]

And that somehow negates the plight of the poor in our own country?

What do you think would happen to the US if we decided that we no longer desired to provide public housing or rent assistance, that somehow conditions for people living in those environments wouldnt change for the worse? The reason that we have such a high standard of living in this country and that we dont see as much of the third world is because we have made the conscious decision as a society to help those who live in poverty. Other countries are either unable or unwilling to do the same for their own citizens. That fact doesnt make poverty in America somehow less of an issue.

Did I say that poverty in the US is not an issue? I don't remember that part of the conversation.

That said, I would credit the comparative comfort of our poor to the comparative wealth of our nation as a whole. Having been to Nicaragua a half dozen times now, I can't help noticing how expansive their social programs are yet how dire the poverty remains.

 

[abdAlSalam]

Did I say that poverty in the US is not an issue? I don't remember that part of the conversation.

That said, I would credit the comparative comfort of our poor to the comparative wealth of our nation as a whole. Having been to Nicaragua a half dozen times now, I can't help noticing how expansive their social programs are yet how dire the poverty remains.

Perhaps not, but that is a direct result of people saying things like "the poor have it good in America!" is that we shouldnt feel obligated to help them. The direct result of stuff like this, and Foxs little expose a while back about the modern amenities that Americans in poverty enjoy is that we shouldnt be concerned about poverty in America. This attitude is the seed of the idea that we should start cutting public assistances like welfare, SNAP, public housing, medicaid, etc. It is essentially a propaganda tool that allows people to feel safe as they move to throw the poor to the wolves.

 

[lordbt]

Perhaps not, but that is a direct result of people saying things like "the poor have it good in America!" is that we shouldnt feel obligated to help them.

As far as I know, no one is stopping you from helping them. If you feel some obligation, by all means act upon it.

 

[Yoder777]

There have been some injustices committed against American Muslims since 9/11. Having said that, I'd rather be a Muslim in America than in any Muslim-majority nation. American Muslims, if they are honest, will be thankful for their high degree of freedom and prosperity compared to their foreign counterparts. Also, I'd rather be a black person in America than a black person in Africa. After visiting Africa for the Rumble in the Jungle, Muhammad Ali famously said, "Thank God my grand-daddy got on that boat."

 

[dies-l]

Perhaps not, but that is a direct result of people saying things like "the poor have it good in America!" is that we shouldnt feel obligated to help them. The direct result of stuff like this, and Foxs little expose a while back about the modern amenities that Americans in poverty enjoy is that we shouldnt be concerned about poverty in America. This attitude is the seed of the idea that we should start cutting public assistances like welfare, SNAP, public housing, medicaid, etc. It is essentially a propaganda tool that allows people to feel safe as they move to throw the poor to the wolves.

Like I said before, my experience is that those who are most active in fighting global poverty are also the most involved in combating local poverty. So, I don't buy you argument here. Personally, I don't have a problem with government programs, within reason, to help our poor here. But, we each need to take responsibility for helping others in this world. The willingness of individuals, families, and faith communities to give ultimately is just as important as government programs.

 

[abdAlSalam]

There have been some injustices committed against American Muslims since 9/11. Having said that, I'd rather be a Muslim in America than in any Muslim-majority nation. American Muslims, if they are honest, will be thankful for their high degree of freedom and prosperity compared to their foreign counterparts. Also, I'd rather be a black person in America than a black person in Africa. After visiting Africa for the Rumble in the Jungle, Muhammad Ali famously said, "Thank God my grand-daddy got on that boat."

Why even bring my religion into it?

For the record, I am happy that I live in America. I just think it is wrong headed to act like wealth inequality here isnt a problem.

 

[lordbt]

Why even bring my religion into it?

For the record, I am happy that I live in America. I just think it is wrong headed to act like wealth inequality here isnt a problem.

Really? Then perhaps you could explain to me why I should care that someone has more wealth than I do.

 

[Yoder777]

Why even bring my religion into it?

Because I am reminded of the Muslim riots in France against their living conditions.

2005 civil unrest in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[wintermile]

No, I am saying we should be thankful for what we have in addition to pursuing policies that better our already great nation. It's not either/or.

I thank Yeshua for what He provides everyday. I thank Him for those who contribute to my city selflessly. I thank Him for awesome Americans who are Howard Zinn aware! I am thankful for those who set out to make sure our nation begins to act good and decent to other nations.

About pursuing policies that better our nation, policies that reverse oppressive policies come first. Haiti comes first. This nation's mistreatment of Haitians can be addressed and diplomacy amended. The first step to improving our nation is righting wrongs.

Policies can be devised to stop misuse of labor and exploitative power.

WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would Stay Cheap - Business Insider


Our nation can herald other nations' commitments to Haiti properly. As far as nations go that have assisted Haiti superbly, Cuba comes first.


12. Cuba Provided the Greatest Medical Aid to Haiti after the Earthquake – Top 25 of 2011


Policies can be devised to stop the U.S. from governing Haiti and direct the U.S. to begin proper partnerships with Haitians.


Haiti: US to Re-Write Haiti Constitution to Better Service the One Percent | Global Research

"The US companies were offered a friendly, public-private partnership by the Aristide government to exploit Haiti oil, gold, iridium, uranium and other strategic resources. That idea of equitable revenue sharing with Haiti peoples insulted the northern US-Euro monopolies so much, they hired and trained death squads in the Dominican Republic from former Haiti army officials to take down Haiti’s duly elected government. And when the hired jackals and US mercenaries, including Guy Philippe/Louis Jodel Chamblain paramilitaries, could not do the US regime change themselves, US Special Forces along with Canada and French troops landed in Haiti on February 29, 2004, and through extraordinary rendition put President Aristide and the first lady on a plane to Africa. This merciless and shocking malevolence was followed by a brutal 3-months US Marines sweep of Site Solèy, Bel Air, Solino and other dissenting areas and then covered up with US MINUSTAH’s permanent war in Haiti behind NGO imperialism.Between 2004 to 2006 the US occupation behind UN guns slaughtered 14 to 20 thousand Haitians. If it wasn’t for organizations like Ezili’s HLLN the Wall Street assassination squads in Haiti might have slaughtered more in the same manner the CIA orchestrated paramilitary death squads in Guatemala killed 200,000 Guatemalans on behalf of US United Fruit companies. In Haiti, with former UN employee Gerald Latortue illegally imposed as Prime Minister, the oligarchs urged Brazil commanders to kill more poor Haitians so that Haiti oil and gold can now freely be carted off to service the Northern vampires as Haiti majority die of Clorox hunger, UN cholera, unfair trade, endless debts and World Bank neoliberal death plans. (The Pain Rush in Haiti : Clorox Hunger lives in the same space that billions of dollars in “aid” are supposed to have being poured.)Today, the US is re-writing Haiti mining laws for its corporations."


"One month later, in February 2004, the international community got itself together and started ruling Haiti. The US occupation of Haiti has been going on for nearly ten years now. Its colonial, bipartisan violence is hidden behind a UN and NGO humanitarian cover.(See, 30 U.S. Humanitarian and Advocacy NGOs Encourage Support for Royce-Engel Amendment to Farm Bill to Reform Food Aid to Feed More People, More Quickly, at a Lower Cost.)The US occupation of Haiti is hidden by the white saviors, their educational and professional institutions and media outlets. These operatives hide the re-enslavement of Haiti by centering the uninformed persons’ attention on the UN or, on their own “good works” in Haiti. Empire’s various celebrity front-men are constantly awarded and elevated with the highest international distinction for their “service to humanity.” When one lifts up the white supremacy visor, the stark reality is that the fake US progressives control the conversation on Haiti to improve the rabid elites’ global feudal system, not to take it down.Haitians require an end to the US occupation of Haiti, a stop to the mining companies and the NGO republic. If the Haiti government was sovereign and free from US bullying neoliberal World Bank/IFIs policies; if Haiti oil, gold, iridium, marble and uranium resources were not privatized but used for Haiti’s public welfare, there would be no need for food-aid in Haiti."


If I were a Haitian living in a fire hazard tent community while cruise ships port 60 miles away, I may prefer to become a despised poor american, temporarily, in order to strive to influence those who still uphold higher standards that Haitians can govern their own affairs.

 

[Yoder777]

I thank Yeshua for what He provides everyday. I thank Him for those who contribute to my city selflessly. I thank Him for awesome Americans who are Howard Zinn aware! I am thankful for those who set out to make sure our nation begins to act good and decent to other nations.

If you don't believe that America's overall treatment of other nations is good and decent despite mistakes made by our national leaders, I don't want to have an argument with you about why it is.

America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any great power in
world history.

Critics of the U.S. are likely to react to this truth with sputtering
outrage. They will point to longstanding American support for a Latin or
Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment of the Japanese during
World War II, or America's reluctance to impose sanctions on South
Africa’s apartheid regime. However one feels about these particular
cases, let us concede to the critics the point that America is not always
in the right.

What the critics leave out is the other side of the ledger. Twice in the
20th century, the United States saved the world: first from the Nazi
threat, then from Soviet totalitarianism. What would have been the
world's fate if America had not existed? After destroying Germany and
Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both countries, and
today they are American allies. Now we are doing the same thing with
Afghanistan.

Consider, too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former Soviet
Union after the U.S. victory in the Cold War. For the most part, America
is an abstaining superpower: It shows no real interest in conquering and
subjugating the rest of the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have
acted if they had won the Cold War.)

On occasion, America intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to
halt massive human rights abuses in another country, but it never stays
to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti and Bosnia, the U.S. got in and
then got out.

Moreover, when America does get into a war, it is supremely careful to
avoid targeting civilians and to minimize collateral damage. Even as
America bombed the Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, its planes
dropped rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan
civilians. What other country does these things?
http://www.phillytalkradioonline.com/comment/10-great-things.html

 

[LostFarmer]

It is essentially a propaganda tool that allows people to feel safe as they move to throw the poor to the wolves.

The Government is the wolves in sheep cloths.

 

[Yoder777]

James 1
16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.


As Americans, we should go down on our knees and thank God for our blessings from above. Our nation must have some special place in His plan to be blessed so much in so short a time.

I honestly believe that America has a special place in God's plan. Why else would America be the first country founded on the principles of democracy and freedom? Why did we go from small underdog to global superpower in less than two hundred years' time? Why did America save the world in two world wars? Why has America been blessed with such prosperity to be philanthropist to the world? Why was America the sanctuary for the world's outcasts yearning to be free? Why does America have so many churchgoing Christians while in Europe, God is dead? For the Republic to survive and thrive, we need to once again proclaim that this is one nation under God.

 

[Yoder777]

When I visited the Jefferson Memorial, the Liberty Bell, and the Statue of Liberty, I couldn't help but feel that I was standing on sacred ground. How did ragtag mountain men defeat history's greatest empire except for the hand of Providence? As a nation, America has its shortcomings, and yet I cannot help but believe that it's fulfilled an important part in God's plan.

How Miracles Helped the US Win the Revelotionary War - YouTube

 

[IanCG]

You guys are trying awfully hard lately to get the money out of the poor's hands and back in the corporate master's hands.

 

[conamer]

You guys are trying awfully hard lately to get the money out of the poor's hands and back in the corporate master's hands.

Prosperity isn't a zero sum game.

 

[IanCG]

Prosperity isn't a zero sum game.

It's just ridiculous. The propaganda I've seen so far includes the poor commit widespread foodstamp fraud, that they're on drugs, that they're lazy, and now that being poor isn't so bad. There's a reason for this, and it's not because any of it is particularly true.

 

[lordbt]

It's just ridiculous. The propaganda I've seen so far includes the poor commit widespread foodstamp fraud, that they're on drugs, that they're lazy, and now that being poor isn't so bad. There's a reason for this, and it's not because any of it is particularly true.

The reason is that it is mostly true. There is widespread foodstamp fraud, there is rampant drug abuse, the poor are not highly motivated, hard working individuals and the American poor in relation to much of the worlds impoverished people don't have it nearly as bad. So the one who has succumbed to propaganda is you.

 

[RDKirk]

When I visited the Jefferson Memorial, the Liberty Bell, and the Statue of Liberty, I couldn't help but feel that I was standing on sacred ground. How did ragtag mountain men defeat history's greatest empire except for the hand of Providence? As a nation, America has its shortcomings, and yet I cannot help but believe that it's fulfilled an important part in God's plan.

Even they were willing to give the French some credit.

Manipulating the Indians also helped.

It's easy enough to point out the "miracles" that enabled Greece and Rome to become great empires, not to mention Spain, France, and Great Britain. Every empire lays claim to being favored by God.

 

[Veritas]

If the liberals have more say, the poor in this country would live just like the wealthy. How, you ask? By taking from those that have and redistibuting it to those that don't. The idea as Marx would want, is to make everyone EQUAL. Never works, of course.

 

[dies-l]

I don't know why there's so much controversy surrounding the statement that America's poor live better than a majority of the world's population. That really is just a simpole fact, and one that is known to anyone who has ever taen the time to work among the poor both locally and globally. This doesn't mean that the poor here don't need our help or that poverty is not a problem. But, it does show that, if the poor here, who compared to global population are quite wealthy, need help, the poor in places like Haiti, South Asia much of Africa, and much of Latin America need our help all the more.

To me this means that when I am standing in Wal-Mart, deciding which big screen TV to buy, Ineed to remember that throughout the world, people are wondering when they will be able to feed their child again. It means that I need to realize that for the cost of that TV, I could provide for the basic needs of a real human being for an entire year or more. It is not, or at least should not, be a matter of taking $1 of support away fro the poor in my own community for every $1 I give to the poor elsewhere. It means that as long as I am able to live substanitally more comfortably than the vast majority of people in the world, I need to find ways to include caring for the poor, the afflicted, and the vulnerable in my budget and in my lifestyle.

I am glad that, by and large, the poor in our country are not forced to forego basic necessities. However, I think we do need to change our focus from giving handouts towards providing a framework to assist families in being self-sufficient. My experience is that poverty in this country is usually linked to at least one of the following: (1) addiction, (2) mental illness, (3) child abuse, and (4) physical disability. Some of these problems cannot be alleviated, and so handouts might be necessary. However, where the underlying problem can be fixed, it is irresponsible for society to give handouts at the expense of addressing the underlying problem. And,, so Iam all for social, governmental, charitable, and religious programs that seek to provide the framework for reocovery and to protect children from chronic abuse, as well as providing basic needs when necessary.

But, this should not come at the expense of providing clean drinking water, adequate sanitation, suitable housing, and apropriate nutrition in places in the world where the poor could never dream of having the "problems" that many of our poor do.