America's Poor Live Better Than Most Of Humanity

Yoder777

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Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity - Forbes

Even if you’re stuck in the bottom 5% of the US income distribution your standard of living is about equal to that of the top 5% of Indians. Even if you’re in the bottom 10% your standard of living is about the same as that of the bottom 10% in other rich countries (which, so we are told, care so much more and do so much more) like Sweden and Finland. And when we sweep everything together into some sort of quality of life measure the American poor are better off than the French or German poor.

Maybe it’s true that the US doesn’t do enough for the poor in the US. That’s rather a judgement call based upon your own morals. But it’s very difficult to see in the actual figures that the US doesn’t do enough. The poor in the US are richer than around 70% of all the people extant. The poor in the US are about as poor, perhaps a bit richer, than the poor in other rich countries. It is true that there is more inequality in the US: but this isn’t because the poor are poorer. It’s because the rich are richer.
Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity - Forbes
As Americans, we should thank God everyday for our high standard of living compared to the rest of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDhcqua3_W8
 
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dakine

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There is a point to what you are saying though, which is that Americans are fat and greedy. We support these extravagant lifestyles through wars of conquest and subjugating foreign peoples. God will rain down judgement upon this nation one day, and I fear he will be about as merciful as we have been towards others.
 
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conamer

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There is a point to what you are saying though, which is that Americans are fat and greedy. We support these extravagant lifestyles through wars of conquest and subjugating foreign peoples. God will rain down judgement upon this nation one day, and I fear he will be about as merciful as we have been towards others.

Oh, I know, misery is so much better for me than extravagance. Especially when those who control more and more of our lives just because it makes them feel better. And, those very same people who say it isn't fair to be free and prosperous, have all the very things they say are unfair and greedy. I gotta tell ha, it's comforting to know their are people so much more smarter than me, taking care of me.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Obama is fixing that, it's evil and unjust that we have it better than others, it's not fair! We've had it too good for too long. We have done so by taking from others. Prosperity is something to be ashamed of, unless you're part of the wealthy elite who tell you this. The "fix" is the equal sharing of misery.

All Obama needs to do is continue our self-destructive trade policies and he'll get his wish.
 
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RDKirk

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As Americans, we should thank God everyday for our high standard of living compared to the rest of the world.

Christians in America would do better to plead for mercy that our worst problem is obesity while Christians in other parts of the world are starving. Do you think we have all this wealth only because we're just so danged awesome?

And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

“Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

“This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”
....
The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk.

The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. -- Luke 12

The Body of Christ has all the resources necessary to support the Body of Christ. There is no reason in Christ why any Christian in the world should ever spend a day hungry, naked, or without shelter.

The average Christian churches in India survives on a budget of $1000 per year...most Chritians in the US could single-handedly sponsor a church in India.
 
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Nilloc

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God didn't make America prosperous; the Enlightenment did.

There is a point to what you are saying though, which is that Americans are fat and greedy. We support these extravagant lifestyles through wars of conquest and subjugating foreign peoples. God will rain down judgement upon this nation one day, and I fear he will be about as merciful as we have been towards others.
Thanks John Piper.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Obama is fixing that, it's evil and unjust that we have it better than others, it's not fair! We've had it too good for too long. We have done so by taking from others. Prosperity is something to be ashamed of, unless you're part of the wealthy elite who tell you this. The "fix" is the equal sharing of misery.

Depends on what metric you're talking about. Across a variety of indices the US has nothing to brag about. But apparently not being at the bottom of an index is good enough. Hooray for ambition. :thumbsup:
 
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kermit

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Yes, the American poor live better than most of humanity. But the question we have to ask is, "Why is that?" It's because decades ago people decided that we should do everything we can to help prevent Americans from falling below a certain standard. The follow up question we need to ask is, "Do the current American poor have as high a standard as in decades gone by?" IMO, no. Minimum wage has failed to keep pace with cost of living.

By all accounts my grandparents were pretty poor. But at the time, that meant they had to buy a small house for their family. Today, even owning a home is concidered middle class. My house was built in the 80's and at the time was concidered a middle-class home. My wife and I earn enough to be in the top 10% of wage earners, we can afford the home, but not by a huge margin. The neighborhood is now concidered upper-middle class. The past few decades have seen the real wages for everyone below the top few percent drop meaning that for most of us our counterparts from 2 or 3 decades ago had more money.
 
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Yoder777

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There is a point to what you are saying though, which is that Americans are fat and greedy. We support these extravagant lifestyles through wars of conquest and subjugating foreign peoples. God will rain down judgement upon this nation one day, and I fear he will be about as merciful as we have been towards others.

I beg to differ with the idea that American prosperity is mostly due to subjugating the world's peoples. There are other factors involved that have helped to ensure America's economic success even in these hard times, such as our legal and regulatory system, the economic freedom and incentives necessary for innovation, the natural resources of the United States, etc.

I do not believe that America is the best possible nation or that American exceptionalism is necessarily a good idea. What I am saying is that we should be thankful to be American.
 
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RDKirk

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America reached it's pinnacle in the decade after WW2 culminating in the Eisenhower years (and illustrated beautifully by Norman Rockwell).

Depending on which water fountain you were allowed to use. A lot of people view those years from a 'way different point, and wouldn't dream of climbing into a time machine to return to the "pinnacle" of America.
 
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Yoder777

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Christians in America would do better to plead for mercy that our worst problem is obesity while Christians in other parts of the world are starving. Do you think we have all this wealth only because we're just so danged awesome?

The average Christian churches in India survives on a budget of $1000 per year...most Chritians in the US could single-handedly sponsor a church in India.

Poor Americans might be fat due to services like the food stamp program, which is a good program except perhaps for the fact that it doesn't encourage the consumer to make better choices at the grocery store for what they should eat. Even though I am not very well off, I provide what little financial help I can for the poor in countries less fortunate than our own.
 
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RDKirk

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I beg to differ with the idea that American prosperity is mostly due to subjugating the world's peoples. There are other factors involved that have helped to ensure America's economic success even in these hard times, such as our legal and regulatory system, the economic freedom and incentives necessary for innovation, the natural resources of the United States, etc.

Well, not initally the exploitation of foreign peoples....

But America's wealth was not gained by any methods not used by other world empires in history: Stealing land, controlling resources, forcing subsistance-level labor, et cetera.
 
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Yoder777

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Yes, the American poor live better than most of humanity. But the question we have to ask is, "Why is that?" It's because decades ago people decided that we should do everything we can to help prevent Americans from falling below a certain standard. The follow up question we need to ask is, "Do the current American poor have as high a standard as in decades gone by?" IMO, no. Minimum wage has failed to keep pace with cost of living.

By all accounts my grandparents were pretty poor. But at the time, that meant they had to buy a small house for their family. Today, even owning a home is concidered middle class. My house was built in the 80's and at the time was concidered a middle-class home. My wife and I earn enough to be in the top 10% of wage earners, we can afford the home, but not by a huge margin. The neighborhood is now concidered upper-middle class. The past few decades have seen the real wages for everyone below the top few percent drop meaning that for most of us our counterparts from 2 or 3 decades ago had more money.

The points you are making I've heard many times before. What do you think of this video as a counterpoint? I am honestly curious.

Are the Poor Getting Poorer? - YouTube
 
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Yoder777

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Depending on which water fountain you were allowed to use. A lot of people view those years from a 'way different point, and wouldn't dream of climbing into a time machine to return to the "pinnacle" of America.

Can you think of anything positive to say about the American economic system? I could have just sent an email to Noam Chomsky and saved myself some time. Not that I am against Noam Chomsky, but it sort of got boring the way he, no matter what, didn't seem to have much nice to say about this country that has blessed him so much in life.

This is what I'd like to ask Chomsky:
In your writings, you've said a lot about harmful actions that have been taken in the name of American foreign policy. I believe that speaking out about these injustices is necessary and is very much in line with the Old Testament prophets and how they would protest the injustices of Israel. At the same time, these same prophets were thankful for the blessings that God had bestowed upon Israel even while they cursed the injustices of the kings and princes. Therefore, I am wondering if there are specific things you could please share with me that make you thankful to be an American. Even though some things about our system aren't fair, the poor in this country are still rich compared to a vast majority of the world's people. Is our comparatively high standard of living something to feel thankful for? I am not trying to philosophically entrap you. I am just curious about what might make you feel thankful for having been born in this country.
 
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Yoder777

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Though I disagree with American exceptionalism, I honestly believe that America has a special place in God's plan. Why else would America be the first country founded on the principles of democracy and freedom? Why did we go from small underdog to global superpower in less than two hundred years' time? Why did America save the world in two world wars? Why has America been blessed with such prosperity to be philanthropist to the world? Why was America the sanctuary for the world's outcasts yearning to be free? Why does America have so many churchgoing Christians while in Europe, God is dead? For the Republic to survive and thrive, we need to once again proclaim that this is one nation under God.
 
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