• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Why am I not surprised. God never commanded the kind of slavery that America had. Africans took from other tribes to try and protect their own. They did this while their loved ones were held under threat of harm but you go ahead and keep telling that lie. I'm not surprised that you would try and use the bible to justify slavery in America. That's exactly what some white Americans did and I see that you have kept that tradition. To be honest I wouldn't expect anything less from you. The fact that you would even try and use the bible to justify slavery in America is disgusting and I have no respect or tolerance for that at all. The Word of God will never back up the slavery that happened in America. That evil will never be justified and America will forever be stained because of it, so I don't care what spin you try and put on it. Now you go google whatever you want but it's not up for debate with me. As I said in my opinion, America is not a Christian nation and never has been.

I never made any attempt to justify slavery. I just pointed out that our history with slavery didn't make our country "anti-Christian" like you tried to do.

And what about me makes you "not surprised"? That sounds like a personal attack. The truth is that the only thing I had to google was the actual dates I quoted ... the rest I already knew from studying history. (In case you are concerned, I have never owned a slave nor desired to own one....)
 
Upvote 0

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,744
United States
✟137,324.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
Yeah I don't agree in that saying "Christian nation"; individuals are Christian, not nations. Christianity is a highly unpopular thing in American culture
Really? My experience is that it's still taboo to say you aren't Christian. You get a pass if you're Jewish because no one wants to be accused of being a Nazi, but that's about it.
 
Upvote 0

quietpraiyze

In The Secret Place
Nov 18, 2011
2,160
820
✟108,795.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't have to try to do anything. The history of slavery in America speaks for itself. You cannot institutionalize the evil known as slavery and call yourself a Christian nation plain and simple. Because of that (and others) America will never have the narrative that it's a Christian nation no matter how hard it tries. The most it can claim IMO is that there are Christians who are and live in America...
 
  • Like
Reactions: tatteredsoul
Upvote 0

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,744
United States
✟137,324.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I don't have to try to do anything. The history of slavery in America speaks for itself. You cannot institutionalize the evil known as slavery and call yourself a Christian nation plain and simple.
Eh, I'm pretty comfortable just recognizing that religions change over the centuries, and that there have been times and places when Christian morality was very different than it is today.
 
Upvote 0

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
I don't have to try to do anything. The history of slavery in America speaks for itself. You cannot institutionalize the evil known as slavery and call yourself a Christian nation plain and simple. Because of that (and others) America will never have the narrative that it's a Christian nation no matter how hard it tries. The most it can claim IMO is that there are Christians who are and live in America...

You don't get to change what the Bible says because you find it offensive. The Bible does not say that slavery is evil. Instead it give directions on how to treat slaves. Show me a verse that says otherwise.

The US was founded on Christian principles with the basic premise really being that the government would not dictate religious beliefs or prevent someone from having the right to believe what they wanted to believe. (No state recognized "official" church).
 
Upvote 0

quietpraiyze

In The Secret Place
Nov 18, 2011
2,160
820
✟108,795.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Excuse me but I don't find the Word offensive, so stop projecting on to me. What I do find offensive is when you and people like you want to make the Word say something that it does not especially when it comes to slavery. I didn't change anything, America did. You need to really get an understanding that the slavery that is in the bible is not the slavery that America had and if you think it was then you are deceived. You don't know what you're talking about and you are making a mockery of God. I don't care what you say, America is NOT a Christian nation...maybe we need to leave it at that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tatteredsoul
Upvote 0

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Excuse me but I don't find the Word offensive, so stop projecting on to me. What I do find offensive is when you and people like you want to make the Word say something that it does not especially when it comes to slavery. I didn't change anything, America did. You need to really get an understanding that the slavery that is in the bible is not the slavery that America had and if you think it was then you are deceived. You don't know what you're talking about and you are making a mockery of God. I don't care what you say, America is NOT a Christian nation...maybe we need to leave it at that.

You honestly think there are acceptable forms of slavery? .. that OT and NT slavery was somehow an acceptable form of slavery?

I am not mocking God in the least and find it offensive that you accuse me of such when I am trying to have an intelligent conversation based on facts and not emotions. And I never said the US was a Christian nation...I said it was founded on Christian principles and that is a historical fact. It also protected a person's right to practice their individual belief system too....so all religions should be protected equally as long as they don't infringe on the rights of another.
 
Upvote 0

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
All the slaves were "bondservants"? Really...that is why God felt it was necessary to give rules on how to care for slaves? You are fooling yourself if you really believe that slaves picked up a paycheck and went home each night. Do you really think that Hagar had the right to tell Abraham that she didn't really want to sex with him when she was given to him by Sara? And she was so abused by Sara that she felt the need to run away when she became pregnant...

And once again, I never said that the United States was a Christian nation. NO, the US were not founded by or under the Crown...the first thing they did is get rid of any crown and made sure we never had one in our government. If you disagree with this, you have no understanding of the definition of "founding".
 
Upvote 0

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Most of Europe was guilty of slavery atrocities. Native Americans were taken kidnapped and forcibly carried to Britain & Europe .... kept in cages and put on parade. The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and Britain owned most of the slave ships...so they bought the slaves and transported them...and were responsible for their horrific treatment while being transported in slave holds. To say this was a uniquely American issue is to be delusional. Like I said, the first black slaves were brought to North American by the Dutch for their Dutch colony.
 
Upvote 0

quietpraiyze

In The Secret Place
Nov 18, 2011
2,160
820
✟108,795.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Where did I say there were "acceptable" forms of slavery? Don't put words in my mouth. I think you've been the one trying to make the case that slavery is biblical. My response to that was NO. The slavery that America had was not ever biblical. You seem to google everything else, I don't know why you don't google that.

I don't need you to tell me about America's so called "founding principles". I'm not really trying to have that conversation. In truth I'm not really trying to have this conversation. Do you think Jews have casual intellectual conversations about the Holocaust without emotion? See I don't have those kinds of conversations about slavery either.

ETA - We're not talking about any place else but America. So you can lose me with all the other nations (deflecting) ...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Where did I say there were "acceptable" forms of slavery? Don't put words in my mouth. I think you've been the one trying to make the case that slavery is biblical. My response to that was NO. The slavery that America had was not ever biblical. You seem to google everything else, I don't know why you don't google that.

I don't need you to tell me about America's so called "founding principles". I'm not really trying to have that conversation. In truth I'm not really trying to have this conversation. Do you think Jews have casual intellectual conversations about the Holocaust without emotion? See I don't have those kinds of conversations about slavery either.

Were you a slave? Did you know someone who was a slave? It is an intellectual conversation at this point. Many of my Jewish friends can have non-emotional conversations about the Holocaust (though I don't get the connection) even though their parents were actually survivors or I have actually cared for some actual survivors in the hospital. However, no one ever pretends that slavery didn't exist in the US and yet there are plenty of people who are trying to say that Holocaust didn't really exist ...

Both were wicked times in history. Having an intellectual conversation and teaching the truth instead of emotionally blaming people does more to prevent it from happening again. It is important to understand what happens in society that turns normally decent people into being able to accept doing horrific things to other people...

(And believe it or not, I don't have to resort to Google for a lot of the things I discuss. I am fairly well educated.)
 
Upvote 0

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Where did I say there were "acceptable" forms of slavery? Don't put words in my mouth. I think you've been the one trying to make the case that slavery is biblical. My response to that was NO. The slavery that America had was not ever biblical. You seem to google everything else, I don't know why you don't google that.

I don't need you to tell me about America's so called "founding principles". I'm not really trying to have that conversation. In truth I'm not really trying to have this conversation. Do you think Jews have casual intellectual conversations about the Holocaust without emotion? See I don't have those kinds of conversations about slavery either.

ETA - We're not talking about any place else but America. So you can lose me with all the other nations (deflecting) ...

Excuse me but I don't find the Word offensive, so stop projecting on to me. What I do find offensive is when you and people like you want to make the Word say something that it does not especially when it comes to slavery. I didn't change anything, America did. You need to really get an understanding that the slavery that is in the bible is not the slavery that America had and if you think it was then you are deceived. You don't know what you're talking about and you are making a mockery of God. I don't care what you say, America is NOT a Christian nation...maybe we need to leave it at that.
 
Upvote 0

blackribbon

Not a newbie
Dec 18, 2011
13,388
6,673
✟205,401.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
He HAD to make rules because, as usual, humans are too dense to understand appropriateness without being given a rule book. They can't just reason that rape, torture, beatings for beatings sake, murder, and the like aren't acceptable - even for slaves.

A slave was someone who owed a debt, or someone who had to work for a living. If you were not born with livestock, precious metals, and/or into a wealthy family, you had to work. Often, this was in the form of slavery.

Biblical slavery is a misnomer because it is coupled with its contemporary - which is nothing less than a human rights atrocity perpetuated for greed, justified by religion and "science."



The United states was part of the Crown Company/Virginia Company whose purpose among other things was to give 50% to the Crown. I am talking about the States being owned by the Crown Temple. Are you talking about the American Revolution liberating people from the crown? That was also a farce. The states were not founded by a bunch of puritans trying to escape religious freedom. The entire operation was a well-funded expansion similar to Manifest Destiny. The puritan/freedom of religion was a deceptive anchor to get manpower to join the people responsible for this British Manifest Destiny. It was a simple political distraction to make the people feel like they are actually choosing to do something that was planned for them from the beginning.

The reality is that in the 18th century, the "conflicts" were red herrings for the truth: the U.S. was being set up as a corporation subject to British maritime law.

Look at your 2010 Census envolope: I saved mine. You will notice a "registered" symbol next to UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The country has always been a corporate (and now military) arm of the Crown.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1778/contents/made

The British colonies were established under the british crown. The Crown never wanted to give up the colonies but our government is uniquely ours. The War or 1812 was an attempt to get it back. Again, we stayed independent. And no, most of the people who hashed out the founding principles of this country were not Puritans...they were a mesh of many Christian religions including Quaker and Anglican. The rest of your stuff is kind of ridiculous.

I am not sure what your link has to do with anything or even what it is saying. I am fairly sure it doesn't say what you think it says (that we are under the British rule).

And honestly....do you really think I saved an envelope from 2010? Really???
 
Upvote 0

quietpraiyze

In The Secret Place
Nov 18, 2011
2,160
820
✟108,795.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I am a descendant of slaves and I have experienced many things because of that. More than you will ever know. I can tell you there are plenty of people who not only minimize and are dismissive of slavery but they think it was deserved. They have an attitude of "it wasn't that bad, the slaves were happy or it didn't go on for as long as it did". There are also those who wouldn't mind if it happened again. Slavery didn't end with Emancipation. Just like I'm a descendant of slaves there are those who are descendants of slave owners and their belief system is alive and well. I don't happen to believe people are any different now than they were then. I don't think people were ever decent. I just think it's a manifestation of the heart meeting opportunity. That's why I can't be easy with this society because they did it once and who is to say? Look at Trumps campaign and tell me I'm making stuff up...

I don't happen to think intellectual conversations are any more meaningful without emotion. I think that's just a way you tried to insult me...
 
  • Like
Reactions: tatteredsoul
Upvote 0