Am i turning into a pervert?

HMSSydney · Nov 1, 2005

thanks for everyone's advice - it's good to know I am not the only one struggling with this issue.

I am still confised- and still drawn to the things of the flesh. I have heard women can look at a guys' chest, rear, front or whatever just like they look at a car, flower or a book. I just cant' do that; if i see someone really nice walking the streets, forgive the language, but i always wonder what is under the mini skirt or under her top.

Now hyphotetically speaking, i am single and she is single.... is that a sin? how could it possibly be? no-one is attacthed and both are single under Gods' eyes. now if the person is married i believe that is a sin but both being single, i just have a hard time trying to undestand that.
Believe me, i do want to change and i just hope you can read between the lines.

fishstix · Nov 1, 2005

HMSSydney said:
thanks for everyone's advice - it's good to know I am not the only one struggling with this issue.

I am still confised- and still drawn to the things of the flesh. I have heard women can look at a guys' chest, rear, front or whatever just like they look at a car, flower or a book. I just cant' do that; if i see someone really nice walking the streets, forgive the language, but i always wonder what is under the mini skirt or under her top.

Perhaps some women can do that, but I suspect that most would think something slightly different than they would if they were seeing a nice car or a pretty flower. Women are not assexual, nor are they entirely unaffected by what they see. Men and women both need to be careful not to let their eyes to cause them to lust.

Now hyphotetically speaking, i am single and she is single.... is that a sin? how could it possibly be? no-one is attacthed and both are single under Gods' eyes. now if the person is married i believe that is a sin but both being single, i just have a hard time trying to undestand that.
Believe me, i do want to change and i just hope you can read between the lines.

The sin isn't being attracted to another person, the sin would be lust. Neither person being married doesn't make lust any less of a problem, because there is also the fact that the two people are not married to each other. Just as a person has no business lusting for someone else's spouse, they have no business lusting for someone who is not their own spouse. Jesus clearly called lust a sexual sin in the Bible, just as much as adultery is a sexual sin. Sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, even if both people are single. Since singleness doesn't mean 'available for sex', it also doesn't mean 'available for lust'.

InTheFlame · Nov 2, 2005

HMSSydney said:
Now hyphotetically speaking, i am single and she is single.... is that a sin? how could it possibly be? no-one is attacthed and both are single under Gods' eyes. now if the person is married i believe that is a sin but both being single, i just have a hard time trying to undestand that.
Believe me, i do want to change and i just hope you can read between the lines.

Here's a few thoughts for you:

If it's OK for you to look at a woman this way, it's OK for a guy to look at YOU this way. I say a guy, because this will probably come closer (for you) to approximating how a woman would feel at the idea of you mentally undressing her.
Are you thinking of her with respect? If you think, 'God loves this precious child', does that stuff up your daydream? Are you thinking of her as a person, or as a thing to have sex with?
When you're married, will this behaviour magically stop?

Chajara · Nov 4, 2005

Oh, you're normal. I'm a girl and I deal with this stuff too... it's all about the hormones. I'm on birth control now, but when I'm not on it, like any other girl I ovulate. When that happens, hormones are dumped into my bloodstream and I turn into a total animal. And boy is it annoying.

Don't worry, nothing's wrong with appreciating a good-looking person. Sometimes for me the thought process is something along the lines of "Well hello there... nice butt. Hmm, wonder what he's majoring in? He dresses nice, wonder if he likes techno like I do?" other times it's simply an appreciative look and "Yeah, I'd hit it." (Of course I wouldn't actually, but you know what I mean.) It's a struggle to be sure, but I just try to make sure I remember that these are indeed people with hopes and dreams and fears and not just sex organs attached to a nice body. Really, it makes life a little more interesting I guess.

Alineko · Nov 4, 2005

I agree that prayer to attack lustful thoughts is a good solution and usually puts you on a track of thinking about what your doing. Like everyone is saying it's perfectly natural to look at the opposite sex. Being a women we tend to look at both sexes but from an artistic point of view. Try to think about whats attracting you to this person... is it a need to see whats underneath? Or are you simply awed by their jaw structure? And if nothing else remember... we are made in God's image. Think of it as looking at God.. chances are you don't paticularly want to imagine what God looks like underneath his clothes.

Hope_0004 · Nov 4, 2005

Hmmm... agree with most, totally normal. And girls do go through the same thing too... a lot of them just won't admit it.

wheredaluv · Nov 4, 2005

HMSSydney said:
thanks for everyone's advice - it's good to know I am not the only one struggling with this issue.

I am still confised- and still drawn to the things of the flesh. I have heard women can look at a guys' chest, rear, front or whatever just like they look at a car, flower or a book. I just cant' do that; if i see someone really nice walking the streets, forgive the language, but i always wonder what is under the mini skirt or under her top.

Now hyphotetically speaking, i am single and she is single.... is that a sin? how could it possibly be? no-one is attacthed and both are single under Gods' eyes. now if the person is married i believe that is a sin but both being single, i just have a hard time trying to undestand that.
Believe me, i do want to change and i just hope you can read between the lines.

I'm just like you. I too wonder whats under their clothing. But that is if I look too long. Indeed it is wrong. There is nothing wrong with a quick acknowledgement of beauty but when you start undressing a person with your eyes or start to lust after them that is when you have gone too far.

erin74 · Nov 10, 2005

InTheFlame said:
Here's a few thoughts for you:

If it's OK for you to look at a woman this way, it's OK for a guy to look at YOU this way. I say a guy, because this will probably come closer (for you) to approximating how a woman would feel at the idea of you mentally undressing her.

Are you thinking of her with respect? If you think, 'God loves this precious child', does that stuff up your daydream? Are you thinking of her as a person, or as a thing to have sex with?

When you're married, will this behaviour magically stop?

I just thought it was worth everyone reading this post again, as it is excellent.

I was thinking along the lines of point 2 especially. What if you start praying for the person instead. I can't imagine it would be easy to stay on your original train of thought if you are praying for them. Then you're doing something for them instead.

I must admit, this is not something I've ever struggled with. I just have never been the type of person to look, and have never really appreciated it when others have pointed things out about people to me - eg a friend saying - "did you see that guy's butt" has never been something I have enjoyed hearing.

Remember Timothy says to treat younger women as sisters, and with absolute purity. Would you look at your sister like this? What would you think if others looked at your sister like this?

I think it's great that you are struggling against this - that you are not content to remain this way. Keep struggling. Pray about it. Ask someone to keep you accountable about it. Remember struggling with sin is a sign that you are a christian - that you are not content with sin, that you want to become more christlike. Keep up the good fight.

appointed · Nov 11, 2005

I am positive that everyone, either guys or girls, struggle with lust.

tashibana27 · Nov 11, 2005

Chajara said:
other times it's simply an appreciative look and "Yeah, I'd hit it."

Hahahhahahaha ... nice. High-five =P

Athalia · Nov 12, 2005

meh, we all do it. that "mmm-hmm!" look and thought - what helped me (even though imma chick ) (I am assuming you're single) and that is, this is already a habit, and it is better to break it now, while you do not have a girlfriend - because when you DO have one you'll still do it, without even realizing it - but she will, and she will be A) hurt B) upset and C) feel that she is not attractive enough to you. - just a factual thought

DaNorthernLight · Nov 12, 2005

[EDIT] - this censored message was not written in the Christian spirit...

scrumpyjack · Nov 13, 2005

I agree, I'm sure you've all hear the old saying - "You can't stop a bird from flying over your head but you can stop it from making a nest in your hair!" That's what we have to aim for.

dusky_tresses · Nov 13, 2005

what you're doing is normal; it's only perverted if you somehow had a camera and started taking close-up pics or something like that....

It isnt bad to look at girls you think are beautiful, but you know I've seen some beautiful girls who happen to dress in clothes that cover everything....lol...

And as a side note, not to make a blanket statement but this is a reason why girls are told to cover up when they wear clothes....because we DO know how hard it can be for men but at the same time self-control is possible. Don't feel bad, I've seen guys make double-takes at girls who were dressed modestly but were really pretty, it happens. It's a two-way street in my opinion.

ascribe2thelord · Nov 14, 2005

HMSSydney said:
Hi all, I think I am turning into a serious pervert, I just cant help looking at nice bodies as they walk the street or nice and sometimes stunning females at university or church. Am I the only one who struggles with this? I heard somewhere the first time you look is innocent but the second look is evil

I must confess that I enjoy looking at females, especially those who dress to be looked at, if everyone was to wear modest clothes it probably wouldnt be a problem but we all know what goes on in our universities, churches and streets; tight jeans, tight tops and/or miniscule clothes dont help.

Today as i was driving back home, i saw this stunning brunette wearing one of those nice but totally evil skirts (if you know what i mean by evil) well, traffic was moving slow and I thought Id look, then it turned into staring and she caught me staring at her and gave me a funny look, (maybe I should have given her my number- lol) but seriously tho I felt really bad bacause I saw her as an object and not as a person.

It is so hard to stay physically pure and even harder to be psychologically pure. Is this the lesser of two evils? Any thoughts from gals or guys?

No, I don't think you're a pervert, but she is probably a lesbian or a stipper, one of the two. Both of them hate being looked at by guys. Or maybe she's just an ordinary girl who's been around a lot of perverted guys ... people who wanted only to have sex with her. So, it's not you, it's her.

Don't think you're a pervert just because someone looks at you funny! And don't worry about "eye candy".
I think God gives excuses if you're sitting in traffic, neh?

InTheFlame · Nov 14, 2005

ascribe2thelord said:
No, I don't think you're a pervert, but she is probably a lesbian or a stipper, one of the two. Both of them hate being looked at by guys. Or maybe she's just an ordinary girl who's been around a lot of perverted guys ... people who wanted only to have sex with her. So, it's not you, it's her.

Probably a...! *deep breath* Dude, women who base their self-respect on things other than their looks often don't like being stared at. Not a quick glance of appreciation, you'll note, but staring. I don't like some guy staring at me as though I'm an object made to satisfy his lust... and no, I'm not a lesbian, nor a stripper. I think God will forgive me for pointing out that I'm using immense self-control here, since you're not here and can't see the steam wisping from my ears.

Chajara · Nov 14, 2005

InTheFlame said:
Probably a...! *deep breath* Dude, women who base their self-respect on things other than their looks often don't like being stared at. Not a quick glance of appreciation, you'll note, but staring. I don't like some guy staring at me as though I'm an object made to satisfy his lust... and no, I'm not a lesbian, nor a stripper. I think God will forgive me for pointing out that I'm using immense self-control here, since you're not here and can't see the steam wisping from my ears.

I agree, that was a pretty darn far-fetched assumption. The fact that we don't want you creeps undressing us with your eyes with a drop of drool rolling down your chin does not make us strippers or harlots or whatever. The leering sure makes us think none too kindly of you, however.

Seriously guys, most of us don't mind an appreciative glance. We don't mind being able to tell when you're thinking "Wow. I'd tap that." Most of us can understand it. But when the look on your face says "I'd date-rape you if I could afford the rufies" rather than "Yeah, I'd hit it, but I know it'll never happen so I'm just gonna go back to what I was doing" we tend to get a little offended or creeped out. Sheesh.

ascribe2thelord · Nov 14, 2005

xxclixxx said:
EVERY MANS BATTLE

Very few guys DONT have a problem with this, and yes it is a problem. No you aren't perverted, but learning to "bounce the eyes" is a must. Letting in the second glances can EASILY lead you down a perverted road. It can start out as a "oh she looks nice" second glance, and become a constant thought process, wherever you go getting a "high" from checking out girls.

Also - be carefull about advice that says "it's normal just don't lust" coming from girls.. They generally don't have the sexual reactions guys have from looking, and so they can easily look at a guy and say he's cute without having any lust, but guys are wired totally different (so girls I'd suggest reading the book too so you understand what your brothers and future husband are going through, it'll probably change the way you dress =P)

I totally disagree. You're saying that all men have a perverted disposition (geared toward lust) and that all women have a non-perverted disposition (completely pure). I doubt this is so true. The people who write these kinds of books ought to keep in mind the fact that there is more to holiness and sanctification than reaching a target age/sex group.

Personally I do believe a guy can admire a girl without lusting at her. It's only natural to admire what God created for us, guys... (moving on) but it is unnatural to obsess about any certain woman unless we're in love with that person. There is no "thin line" or "second look" between admiring and lusting - either you are in the mindset to lust, or in the mindset to simply praise God for His wonderful works. Of course, He also created plants, trees, and animals. Those are interesting too, you know!

So anyway, what was I saying? Oh, "Every Man's Battle" lodges guilt inside the mind of the believing man simply for being himself, teaching him that he cannot look twice without lusting. (Hasn't anyone heard of shyness?)

ascribe2thelord · Nov 14, 2005

InTheFlame said:
Probably a...! *deep breath* Dude, women who base their self-respect on things other than their looks often don't like being stared at. Not a quick glance of appreciation, you'll note, but staring. I don't like some guy staring at me as though I'm an object made to satisfy his lust... and no, I'm not a lesbian, nor a stripper. I think God will forgive me for pointing out that I'm using immense self-control here, since you're not here and can't see the steam wisping from my ears.

Okay, okay sorry. I was under the impression that he was in a busy city street, in the middle of traffic, and there was this really hot girl ... okay I was creating a scenario in my mind, and that ended up in her being someone ungodly. I confess I did jump to conclusions. Personally, I consider man and woman made for one another. The tendency to find someone of the opposite sex attractive is not the only part in that, but it does take up a lot of attention ... and tends to make a few people feel especially guilty, if they even look twice.

InTheFlame · Nov 14, 2005

ascribe2thelord said:
I totally disagree. You're saying that all men have a perverted disposition (geared toward lust) and that all women have a non-perverted disposition (completely pure).

Hmmm... I don't think this is what was said - rather that men tend to have problems with visual input - the process often goes 'look, look again, drool'. I think there's some truth in this for many men. Most women don't tend to have that exact problem... they have others they struggle with, though.

ascribe2thelord said:
I doubt this is so true. The people who write these kinds of books ought to keep in mind the fact that there is more to holiness and sanctification than reaching a target age/sex group.

I think you've got a point there. Acknowledging all people around us as God's creations, and people that he loves, often seems to kill the lust problem.

ascribe2thelord said:
Personally I do believe a guy can admire a girl without lusting at her.

ditto.

ascribe2thelord said:
It's only natural to admire what God created for us, guys...

Women too.

ascribe2thelord said:
(moving on) but it is unnatural to obsess about any certain woman unless we're in love with that person. There is no "thin line" or "second look" between admiring and lusting - either you are in the mindset to lust, or in the mindset to simply praise God for His wonderful works.

Mmmmm... I'm not sure about this one. I can see that a 'good' mindset could slip into a 'bad' one fairly easily, without vigilance.

ascribe2thelord said:
Of course, He also created plants, trees, and animals. Those are interesting too, you know!

Mmmm... I drive hubby nuts when he's walking with me. 'look at that girl's skirt! Hey, pretty car! Oh look, a blue butterfly! Ooh, pretty flower! Sexy guy! Gorgeous girl! Hey, look at that bird!'

ascribe2thelord said:
So anyway, what was I saying? Oh, "Every Man's Battle" lodges guilt inside the mind of the believing man simply for being himself, teaching him that he cannot look twice without lusting. (Hasn't anyone heard of shyness?)

Hmmm... what you don't address here, which I think is pertinent, is that Every Man's Battle seems to be a reaction against the socialisation which teaches men to look at a woman and think 'sex'. I'm not sure that it's the best way to deal with the problem, but re-teaching oneself is a big process...

(that was more a question, than an answer of any sort )

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