Am I saved?

[VictorC]

God blessed the seventh day at creation even before sin was in the world.

This has no relation to either a "fourth commandment" nor the sabbath, as has been demonstrated previously several times. This response avoids the question.

Now I'm sure you will say the Sabbath is not mentioned here but it doesn't need to be, in the same way, murder, honor your father and mother and so on are not mentioned but they are included because he is quoting from the Law, which are the Ten Commandments.

Here you mention the ten commandments, which was the covenant from Mount Sinai that Paul instructed us to cast off. It is not part of the new covenant, being the first covenant that Jesus Christ took away (Hebrews 10:9) when He redeemed His adopted children from it (Galatians 4:4-5).

Jesus' followers understood the fourth commandment. Why can't you?

It would appear that each time you write a reference to the "fourth commandment", you are indeed referring to the covenant from Mount Sinai. Is this why you can't locate this reference anywhere else?

Did you think the commandments of God are just suggestions that you have a license to ignore, so that you can return to the first covenant God redeemed us from? Your actions testify that this is your intent, and continually showing texts showing that Mary didn't know the impact of the death of the Testator had on the commandment, which Luke needed to explain to Theophilus, does not change God's commandment given under inspiration to cast off the covenant from Mount Sinai.

Galatians 5:1 commands us to "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage", which is the very reason that those who know the commandments of God aren't going to follow your departure from God's redemption, and "you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear" (Acts 15:10). Peter and Paul both tell us in plain language to reject your message as unBiblical.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Absolutely!

So, if the seventh day sabbath points to Jesus Christ, is it a shadow?

Sabbath is simply a day to put the world on the back burner of our lives and consecrate ourselves to God’s service and resting and growing in the magnificent work Christ has done for us.

If this is all there was to it, why couldn't we experience this during other days of the week as well? Doesn't Biblical sabbath keeping involve an abstinence from travel, kindling fires and carrying loads? Doesn't Biblical sabbath keeping involve special animal sacrifices? Aren't these the components that set the seventh-day apart for the Israelites?

I thank God for the neighbor who first told me about it. It took me over a year to get the bigger picture, (I kept Sunday until I learned how the day was changed).

I wonder whether anyone today keeps any day the way that God commanded the Israelites to keep the seventh-day sabbath.

It's a blessing I missed out on for the first 15 years of my Christian walk.

I'm glad that you've found a blessing. I don't wish to rob you of a blessing.

More than that, it’s now so much easier to resist the devil the other six day of the week when I rest in Jesus as he has invited us to.

Do you really believe that you resist the devil?

I don’t keep the weekly Sabbath (or the other commandments) to work my way into heaven; I keep them because I am grateful to Christ for what he has done for me. I keep them because I am looking forward to spending eternity with the One who created everything and loved me from the beginning and became sin for me paying a debt I could not pay. It's just more of the Good News made better...

OK. Fair enough. So, if this is true, I would assume that you have not adopted the following SDA teachings:

1. The mark of the beast will one day be applied to non-sabbatarians;
2. The seal of God will one day be applied only to sabbatarians;
3. The sabbath will become the great final test that represents a dividing wall between those who are of God and those who aren't.
4. A national Sunday law is coming and sabbatarians will be persecuted.
​

At the heart of these teachings is a belief that the sabbath is a means to salvation.

Q: If you did not follow sabbath behavior during any sabbath day for the rest of 2010, would you still be eligible for salvation?

BFA

 

[VictorC]

2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

I'm sorry but this logic continues to elude me. Are you now saying that there is no more law… OR RIGHTEOUSNESS EITHER? The scripture referenced here makes the point I have tried to convey several times. When we ignore God’s laws by not submitting to them we are establishing our own righteousness. I do not question your zeal for God but it clearly is not according to knowledge if you continue to think that all or part of the eternal 10 commandment law was somehow "nailed to the cross" and we do no longer need to follow it because of what Christ has done for us.

Would you be interested in knowing what law WAS nailed to the cross?

Doug, you quoted only Romans 10:2-4 from my post, and the first question that comes to my mind is why the logic of this passage in Scripture eludes you.

The second question that comes to my mind is why do you assume the 10 commandments is "eternal", when that covenant from Mount Sinai had a documented time it came into existence, and a documented time when the Hand of God took it away. Between these two events that covenant had a limited jurisdiction over only one group of people. These are all attributes that are antithetical to your assumption of it being eternal.

The third question that comes to my mind is why you claim the ten commandments wasn't among the ordinances that were against us as Gentiles, who were deprived a relationship with God during the entire tenure of the covenant from Mount Sinai, which was the ten commandments. You assume that I don't know what was nailed to the cross of Christ, while you ascribe attributes to a temporal covenant that are not supported by Scripture.

Scripture is plain in describing those who won't submit to God's redemption from the covenant mediated in the hands of Moses as those attempting to establish their own righteousness. This is the tenor of your actions by reversing God's redemption into submission to the Sinai covenant, all the while not actually in compliance with the law that ordained the sabbath. That form of submission doesn't provide the righteousness of God acceptable to Himself, as Jesus testified that "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20), and you're appealing to the same failed method the scribes and Pharisees employed.

 

[k4c]

VictorC;This has no relation to either a "fourth commandment" nor the sabbath, as has been demonstrated previously several times. This response avoids the question.

Your opinion...

Here you mention the ten commandments, which was the covenant from Mount Sinai that Paul instructed us to cast off. It is not part of the new covenant, being the first covenant that Jesus Christ took away (Hebrews 10:9) when He redeemed His adopted children from it (Galatians 4:4-5).

Cast off the old agreement, not the Ten Commandments. So your conclusion is once again your opinion.

It would appear that each time you write a reference to the "fourth commandment", you are indeed referring to the covenant from Mount Sinai. Is this why you can't locate this reference anywhere else?

Your opinion... Now listen to what is really said in the new covenant regarding the fourth commandment.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Did you think the commandments of God are just suggestions that you have a license to ignore, so that you can return to the first covenant God redeemed us from? Your actions testify that this is your intent, and continually showing texts showing that Mary didn't know the impact of the death of the Testator had on the commandment, which Luke needed to explain to Theophilus, does not change God's commandment given under inspiration to cast off the covenant from Mount Sinai.

Your opinion...

Galatians 5:1 commands us to "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage", which is the very reason that those who know the commandments of God aren't going to follow your departure from God's redemption, and "you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear" (Acts 15:10). Peter and Paul both tell us in plain language to reject your message as unBiblical.

Do you think their liberty was seen in their acts of adultery, murder, lying, stealing, forgetting the Sabbath, worshiping false Gods and so on or do you think their liberty was seen in the fact that the law of circumcision was no longer something that need to be done outwardly. Let's read it in context and see the liberty Paul was referring to.

Galatians 5:6-13 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off! For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

If Paul was truly doing away with the Ten Commandments he would have no reason to quote word for word from the them and confirm the blessing attached to it for obeying it.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Start preaching the truth and stop preaching your opinions.

For more opinions from VictorC click here http://www.christianforums.com/t7467386-4/#post54749025

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Your opinion... Now listen to what is really said in the new covenant regarding the fourth commandment.
Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Jesus Christ observed the passover. Do you?

Start preaching the truth and stop preaching your opinions.

Yet another example that illustrates that you believe that only you have the truth and that all others only have opinions. How did you come to be blessed in this way? You seem to be selective in the truths you wish to proclaim.


BFA

 

[k4c]

Jesus Christ observed the passover. Do you?

Yet another example that illustrates that you believe that only you have the truth and that all others only have opinions. How did you come to be blessed in this way? You seem to be selective in the truths you wish to proclaim.


BFA

Passover is a shadow that pointed to Christ. But if you want to celebrate it that's fine. Jesus instituted the Lord's supper to remember His death but even that's not commanded to keep, the same applies to foot washing.

 

[bugkiller]

Your opinion...

I for one would like to know what Victor's opinion is. Is it that you have been told sometning, his statement about the 4th commandment, or his statement about avoiding the question. At any rate how is your opinion a defense?

Cast off the old agreement, not the Ten Commandments. So your conclusion is once again your opinion.

The agreement is the ten commandments. Deut 4:13, 5:1-5.

Your opinion... Now listen to what is really said in the new covenant regarding the fourth commandment.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

How is this support for teaching or commanding the keeping of the law?

Do you think their liberty was seen in their acts of adultery, murder, lying, stealing, forgetting the Sabbath, worshiping false Gods and so on or do you think their liberty was seen in the fact that the law of circumcision was no longer something that need to be done outwardly. Let's read it in context and see the liberty Paul was referring to.

Do you really think that Paul is telling the Galatians to sin? Do you reallly think that Paul was talking about the Judaizers comming to observe their sin an Paul is complaining about some one knowing that he is openly practicing sin? Do you really think that Paul was worshipping idols?

Galatians 5:6-13 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off! For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Are you overlooking a little word if? For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. Doesn't this mean Paul is not giving permission to sin?

If Paul was truly doing away with the Ten Commandments he would have no reason to quote word for word from the them and confirm the blessing attached to it for obeying it.

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Start preaching the truth and stop preaching your opinions.

I personally think this is great advice. You would do really well to consider it for yourself.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

I for one would like to know what Victor's opinion is. Is it that you have been told sometning, his statement about the 4th commandment, or his statement about avoiding the question. At any rate how is your opinion a defense? The agreement is the ten commandments. Deut 4:13, 5:1-5.

Your opinion... Now listen to what is really said in the new covenant regarding the fourth commandment.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.[/qoute]How is this support for teaching or commanding the keeping of the law? Do you really think that Paul is telling the Galatians to sin? Do you reallly think that Paul was talking about the Judaizers comming to observe their sin an Paul is complaining about some one knowing that he is openly practicing sin? Do you really think that Paul was worshipping idols?

Are you overlooking a little word if? For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. Doesn't this mean Paul is not giving permission to sin? I personally think this is great advice. You would do really well to consider it for yourself.

bugkiller

The Ten Commandments are the content of the old covenant but these are the terms.

Deuteronomy 5:32-33 "Therefore you shall be careful to do as the Lord your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. "You shall walk in all the ways which the Lord your God has commanded you, that you may live and that it may be well with you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which you shall possess.

The terms have changed in the new covenant, not the content.

Jeremiah 31:33-34 "But this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' says the Lord. "For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Confirmed in the New Testament.

Hebrews 8:10-12 "For this is the new covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days,'' says the Lord, "I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'' ''

Notice how the sins that are forgiven in the new covenant were the violation of the terms of the old covenant.

Jesus' death did away with the violations of the old covenant and then He writes the contents of the old covenant in our hearts and gives us His Spirit to empower us to keep them.

Now don't close your eyes, pay attention.

Ezekiel 36:26-29 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. "I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses.

Simple, if you let the Bible speak for itself.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

The sum of the Law is to love your neighbor as yourself and your Father in Heaven. If I keep the Law by obeying this sum, how does it judge me? If the sum is written within my heart, how am I lacking in the written details? The thing is "are you obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ; do you keep this sum dear to your heart?" The better question is are you making an "A" by listening to your teacher Jesus Christ and understanding salvation?

One Christian camp of thought pushes obeying the Law. Another one believes being the Law (obeying & living out the teachings of Jesus Christ: love thy neighbor as thyself and love your Father in Heaven above all things). One deals with stone, paper & leather mediums for writing the Law and the other lives the intent of the Law, having God write them in their hearts by his grace and blood through his son, Jesus Christ. Stone is lasting, but the heart of the children of God is where the law's fullness should be written with no end to come, yet written by the grace and blood of Jesus Christ. The finger of God wrote into stone, but the son of God writes into our very hearts and souls. Jesus writes the meanings, summations and the completeness of the Law into our hearts; our very souls. Those who obey the teachings of Jesus Christ (and not that of many men, including Christian leaders) can not be judge! When God writes his Law through his son's blood and grace into our thoughts and heart, we have the complete Law, for we are that Law, light shines from us and most importantly from the teachings Christ: so shines our love for our neighbors and our Father in Heaven, and also shines our confidence in our savior. We are not concerned by the thoughts of any man (especially those who try to unsettle our faith in Jesus Christ).

Law is for the law-breaker. Yet there is no law-breaker with those who obey Christ Jesus, for they live out the love of their Father in Heaven and shine in this darken world. Knowledge starts by obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ; isn't it unusual that this is where love also starts. Have a great day. Praise God alone.

 

[VictorC]

Cast off the old agreement, not the Ten Commandments.

You just contradicted yourself here. You need to rectify your mistake before you can continue.

 

[k4c]

The sum of the Law is to love your neighbor as yourself and your Father in Heaven. If I keep the Law by obeying this sum, how does it judge me? If the sum is written within my heart, how am I lacking in the written details? The thing is "are you obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ; do you keep this sum dear to your heart?" The better question is are you making an "A" by listening to your teacher Jesus Christ and understanding salvation?

One Christian camp of thought pushes obeying the Law. Another one believes being the Law (obeying & living out the teachings of Jesus Christ: love thy neighbor as thyself and love your Father in Heaven above all things). One deals with stone, paper & leather mediums for writing the Law and the other lives the intent of all Law, having God write them in their hearts by his grace and blood through his son, Jesus Christ. Stone is lasting, but the heart of the children of God is where the law's fullness should be written with no end to come, yet written by the grace and blood of Jesus Christ. The finger of God wrote into stone, but the son of God writes into our very hearts and souls. Jesus writes the meanings, summations and the completeness of the Law into our hearts; our very souls. Those who obey the teachings of Jesus Christ (and not that of many men, including Christian leaders) can not be judge! When God writes his Law through his son's blood and grace into our thoughts and heart, we have the complete Law, for we are that Law, light shines from us and most importantly from the teachings Christ: so shines our love for our neighbors and our Father in Heaven, and also shines our confidence in our savior. We are not concerned by the thoughts of any man (especially those who try to unsettle our faith in Jesus Christ).

Law is for the law-breaker. Yet there is no law-breaker with those who obey Christ Jesus, for they live out the love of their Father in Heaven and shine in this darken world. Knowledge starts by obeying the teachings of Jesus Christ; isn't it unusual that this is where love also starts. Have a great day. Praise God alone.

This is all good but where's the beef?

I believe in the new covenant God writes His Law in our hearts and minds and gives us His Spirit to empower us to obey them through love we will keep the commandments and they won't be a burden, this includes the literal Sabbath day of the fourth commandment.

What sayeth thou...?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Passover is a shadow that pointed to Christ. But if you want to celebrate it that's fine. Jesus instituted the Lord's supper to remember His death but even that's not commanded to keep, the same applies to foot washing.

So, to follow your logic, Jesus' sabbath behavior would not tell us anything definitive about the way that we are to behave during the seventh day of the week.

BFA

 

[VictorC]

One Christian camp of thought pushes obeying the Law. Another one believes being the Law (obeying & living out the teachings of Jesus Christ: love thy neighbor as thyself and love your Father in Heaven above all things). One deals with stone, paper & leather mediums for writing the Law and the other lives the intent of the Law, having God write them in their hearts by his grace and blood through his son, Jesus Christ. Stone is lasting, but the heart of the children of God is where the law's fullness should be written with no end to come, yet written by the grace and blood of Jesus Christ. The finger of God wrote into stone, but the son of God writes into our very hearts and souls. Jesus writes the meanings, summations and the completeness of the Law into our hearts; our very souls. Those who obey the teachings of Jesus Christ (and not that of many men, including Christian leaders) can not be judge! When God writes his Law through his son's blood and grace into our thoughts and heart, we have the complete Law, for we are that Law, light shines from us and most importantly from the teachings Christ: so shines our love for our neighbors and our Father in Heaven, and also shines our confidence in our savior. We are not concerned by the thoughts of any man (especially those who try to unsettle our faith in Jesus Christ).

The ambition you show in promoting love for one another is one I find no fault in, and I tend to agree with you for the most part. But there are a couple of sticky issues that I see in this paragraph.

The commandment to love God (Deuteronomy 6:5, repeated in Matthew 22:37) doesn't appear in the new covenant anywhere. We have a new commandment to love one another (John 13:34) that replaces a similar one from Leviticus 19:18, and it is affirmed as a new covenant commandment in 1 John 3:23. But 1 John 4:19 affirms "We love Him because He first loved us", and a commandment to love God was apparently considered unnecessary by virtue of its absence.

Also, God's "My law" written into our hearts and minds isn't according to the covenant from Mount Sinai, and Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 make that clear.

I haven't seen you here before, and I extend a hearty welcome to your contributions.

 

[k4c]

You just contradicted yourself here. You need to rectify your mistake before you can continue.

I make and agreement with you to sell you a car for $100. Here are the terms. You give me $5 dollars a week until the car is paid off and if you miss a payment I will take the car back. Now you miss a payment and ask for another chance. So I give you another chance but I also make a new agreement with you and do away with the old agreement. Now you pay $5 a month, instead of every week, so it will be easier for you to make the payments.

Now in the old agreement we have the content (the car) and the terms ($5 a week).

In the new agreement we have the same content (the car) but with different terms ($5 a month).

See how simple it is?

In the old covenant God says here is the content, (Ten Commandments) and here are the terms, (obey or die).

In the new covenant Jesus dies in our place and now He takes the content (Ten Commandments) and writes them in our hearts and gives us His Spirit so it will be easier for us to keep them.

Ezekiel 36:26-29 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. "Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. "I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[VictorC]

In the old covenant God says here is the content, (Ten Commandments) and here are the terms, (obey or die).

In the new covenant Jesus dies in our place and now He takes the content (Ten Commandments) and writes them in our hearts and gives us His Spirit so it will be easier for us to keep them.

Two observations: You haven't offered anything to rectify your contradiction of retaining Sinai while discarding Sinai, and you again make a claim in total deference concerning Whom God has written into our hearts and minds.

Do you remember this discourse we shared in the past?

The old covenant is that the chair is on one side of the room and the new covenant is that the chair is moved to the other side of the room.

Since we're using a familiar noun, we can remain with it for a while.

Hebrews 8 describes the old chair:

• The old chair is faulty: if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
• The old chair was violated, i.e. broken: they did not continue in My covenant.
• The old chair is obsolete: In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete.
• The old chair is ready for disposal: Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Both Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 contain a narrative of God making a new covenant, or a new chair, that is not according to the pattern of the old chair: I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt.

While you assert that moving the chair across the room somehow made it new (which is ubsurd), the narrative you're confronted with tells a entirely different story: the old chair is disposed, and God made a new chair of an entirely different design.

The old covenant is that the law is written of stone and the new covenant is the law written on the heart.

Pretty simple...

I don't believe that I'm the first to break the news to you: Sinai is according to Sinai, and God's promise is that He would write His "My law" into His redeemed that isn't according to Sinai.

Until you make this distinction that what (or rather, Who) has entered into us isn't from Sinai, you aren't going to make the smallest effort to determine what Scripture is telling us in its plain language.

It is evident that you have not changed your conclusion regarding the Person God's "My law" refers to, Who causes a personal knowledge of God to enter into us.

 

[k4c]

VictorC;Two observations: You haven't offered anything to rectify your contradiction of retaining Sinai while discarding Sinai, and you again make a claim in total deference concerning Whom God has written into our hearts and minds.

Read over my dozens of replies to your comments and all your questions will be answered.

Do you remember this discourse we shared in the past?

The problem is the chair, not the Ten Commandments.

It is evident that you have not changed your conclusion regarding the Person God's "My law" refers to, Who causes a personal knowledge of God to enter into us.

My conclusion is God's conclusion, He writes His Law in my heart and mind in the new covenant and if you read over my dozens of replies you will see how God equates His Ten commandments with the Law that He write in our hearts.

 

[VictorC]

Read over my dozens of replies to your comments and all your questions will be answered.

The problem is the chair, not the Ten Commandments.

My conclusion is God's conclusion, He writes His Law in my heart and mind in the new covenant and if you read over my dozens of replies you will see how God equates His Ten commandments with the Law that He write in our hearts.

It is evident that you conclude the Bible to be a lie, that you can impose your opinion over. Why should we consider your posts as having any value?

 

[k4c]

It is evident that you conclude the Bible to be a lie, that you can impose your opinion over. Why should we consider your posts as having any value?

Opinions are like noses, everyone has one and they all smell...

 

[VictorC]

It is evident that you conclude the Bible to be a lie, that you can impose your opinion over. Why should we consider your posts as having any value?

Opinions are like noses, everyone has one and they all smell...

This is the very reason I haven't responded with my opinion. Opinions are useless, and your responses have demonstrated that conclusion.

 

[k4c]

This is the very reason I haven't responded with my opinion. Opinions are useless, and your responses have demonstrated that conclusion.

Now that's an opinion...