Am I expected to lie to myself?

[Cieza]

Christians have told me I need to believe that God is our supreme being and that Jesus died for the sins of others and that he was resurrected from the dead and still watches over us. However, all available evidence has strongly suggested to me that none of this is true. If I did want to be a Christian, am I then expected to lie to myself with respect to my beliefs?

 

[ChristianT]

Christians have told me I need to believe that God is our supreme being

I have no problem believing that God is better than me. A lot of people are better than me.

and that Jesus died for the sins of others and that he was resurrected from the dead and still watches over us.

He did die on the cross, not just as documented in the Christian Bible, many Jews believe Jesus died. There's other non-Christian sources of the historicity of Jesus, if you'd like.

However, all available evidence has strongly suggested to me that none of this is true.

So... because you don't want it to be true, you throw out the evidence saying it is?

If I did want to be a Christian, am I then expected to lie to myself with respect to my beliefs?

It seems like you already are...

 

[Forge3]

If we could produce evidence that would satisfy the intellect with all its facets I imagine our fellowship would at least double. In general we are all faced with the empty tomb of Easter. We have not put our fingers through the wounds in His hands. Yet we who believe do believe.

"Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed"(Jn.20:29).

The agency of faith is an agency that may not satisfy the intellect in the sense that all evidence has been collected, sifted, weighed, magnified and can be delivered to the scientific community for sure approbation.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I recommend that you pray over this without discarding the inquisitive and/or curious approach on your part. Indeed reflect and pray.

Others can dispense the historical and theological underpinnings of Christianity itself.

 

[Cieza]

I have no problem believing that God is better than me. A lot of people are better than me.

Please define "God".

He did die on the cross, not just as documented in the Christian Bible, many Jews believe Jesus died. There's other non-Christian sources of the historicity of Jesus, if you'd like.

What undeniable, 100% accurate evidence do you have that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead?

So... because you don't want it to be true, you throw out the evidence saying it is?

This isn't about what I want to be true. This is about what the available evidence tells me to be true.

It seems like you already are...

Please explain how I am lying to myself about my beliefs.

 

[Cieza]

If we could produce evidence that would satisfy the intellect with all its facets I imagine our fellowship would at least double. In general we are all faced with the empty tomb of Easter. We have not put our fingers through the wounds in His hands. Yet we who believe do believe.

"Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed"(Jn.20:29).

The agency of faith is an agency that may not satisfy the intellect in the sense that all evidence has been collected, sifted, weighed, magnified and can be delivered to the scientific community for sure approbation.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I recommend that you pray over this without discarding the inquisitive and/or curious approach on your part. Indeed reflect and pray.

Others can dispense the historical and theological underpinnings of Christianity itself.

If God is real, then he would be fully aware of the predicament I'm in. But he doesn't do anything. Is this because he doesn't care? Because he is incapable of doing anything? Or perhaps he isn't real.

 

[ChristianT]

Please define "God".

God:
pronoun in replacement for the many names of the only Supreme Being. God is an almighty, Holy, loving, eternal, spiritual, invisible, supernatural Being.
(Because you ask time and time again for "secularized versions of "Christian" words, I'll do my best. {words can not follow Christ with their everything as words have no soul...})

-almighty: having complete power. God is almighty in that He has power over all that happens.

-Holy: pure, just. God is Holy in that He is the perfect Judge, and judges all based on their heart, what their motivation is, not their actions nor their money, nor their power.

-loving: having and being a Being of love and sharing that love with all creation by putting everything in place so that it may exist for a long time, and showing love to us by making us in His image, which means we have a sovereign (final say) will. We can choose our actions and our motivations. We are not forced.

-eternal: He always exists, He was never born nor created, and He will never die.

-spiritual: He has no physical body flying in space nor sitting in a red-velvet chair flying in the clouds.

-invisible: because He has no body, He cannot be seen with eyes or optical machines.

-supernatural: because He is Supreme, He is super natural, more than nature or physical rules.

What undeniable, 100% accurate evidence do you have that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead?

I am not sure as I do not know if you will deny the evidence or not. My evidence is the internet, history journals, archaeological finds, and the Bible.

This isn't about what I want to be true. This is about what the available evidence tells me to be true.

what then, is this "available evidence?"

Please explain how I am lying to myself about my beliefs.

You may believe what you want. However, according to the Bible and many historical and archaeological digs, Jesus in fact lived and died. Because his body cannot be found however, He had to have been resurrected.

If God is real, then he would be fully aware of the predicament I'm in. But he doesn't do anything. Is this because he doesn't care? Because he is incapable of doing anything? Or perhaps he isn't real.

What should He do then, to get you out of your predicament? spawn a lion in your living room and make it open the door and walk out? Not to sound sarcastic, but it sounds like you want Him to walk a tightrope for you.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Cieza. There are thousands upon thousand of Christian men and Christian women world wide, who sincerely believe they are right. I cannot make up my mind whether you are brave or just taking a gamble. Have you not even the smallest doubt that you might be mistaken? and might be ending up in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light? I say this with love, Cieza. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ. P.S. Eternity is forever.

 

[Sketcher]

A true Christian believes that stuff, so if you were to become a true Christian, you wouldn't be lying to yourself.

 

[aiki]

Christians have told me I need to believe that God is our supreme being and that Jesus died for the sins of others and that he was resurrected from the dead and still watches over us. However, all available evidence has strongly suggested to me that none of this is true. If I did want to be a Christian, am I then expected to lie to myself with respect to my beliefs?

Since the existence of God, the atoning death of Christ for our sins and his bodily resurrection are central tenets of the Christian faith, how could you be a Christian and not believe these things? And why on earth would you want to embrace a worldview for which you think there is no reasonable basis?

The fact of the matter is that, if God is real and wants a personal relationship with you, only He can convince you of the reality of Himself and the truth of His Word. The kind of core conviction of God's existence and the deep love for Him typical of a genuine child of God is not something any amount of arguing or evidence can manufacture. Only God can bring such conviction and foster such love in us. Being intellectually satisfied that God exists and that the Bible is true does not necessarily bring a person into fellowship with God. Salvation and adoption into God's family is God's work alone.

Selah.

 

[Faulty]

If God is real, then he would be fully aware of the predicament I'm in. But he doesn't do anything. Is this because he doesn't care? Because he is incapable of doing anything? Or perhaps he isn't real.

He's more aware of it than you are.

Scripture tells us...

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Romans 1:18-20
​

I know there is a big lie being forced on the world by the "learned", that non-life somehow became life by chance, but by the magnitude and complexity of creation, all people know of God, but many ignore it in favor of a lie. Then they all get together, call their imagination a "science" then award each other degrees to bolster their claims, but their ignorance is the same.

Then if that wasn't enough, displaying His power externally, He placed His law inside man. All men inherently know stealing is wrong, murder is wrong, rape is wrong, lying is wrong, child molestation is wrong, even if there were no laws saying such, but rather man makes laws enforcing the following of the Law God has already programmed within us. (Romans 2:12-16)

Inside and out, you are shown God's existence, and only one book claims to be written by God, through man, and backs it up with hundreds of fulfilled prophecies. It takes real effort to ignore it. And this book proclaims we have violated God's laws, which we already know we've lied, stolen, lusted, etc, and there is a consequence for our actions. But it also tells us how our debt to God has been paid and how we can be forgiven.

You claim He hasn't done anything, but He has done everything He needed to do, including giving you His word, understanding of the word, and time to repent.

 

[Cieza]

God:
pronoun in replacement for the many names of the only Supreme Being. God is an almighty, Holy, loving, eternal, spiritual, invisible, supernatural Being.
(Because you ask time and time again for "secularized versions of "Christian" words, I'll do my best. {words can not follow Christ with their everything as words have no soul...})

-almighty: having complete power. God is almighty in that He has power over all that happens.

-Holy: pure, just. God is Holy in that He is the perfect Judge, and judges all based on their heart, what their motivation is, not their actions nor their money, nor their power.

-loving: having and being a Being of love and sharing that love with all creation by putting everything in place so that it may exist for a long time, and showing love to us by making us in His image, which means we have a sovereign (final say) will. We can choose our actions and our motivations. We are not forced.

-eternal: He always exists, He was never born nor created, and He will never die.

-spiritual: He has no physical body flying in space nor sitting in a red-velvet chair flying in the clouds.

-invisible: because He has no body, He cannot be seen with eyes or optical machines.

-supernatural: because He is Supreme, He is super natural, more than nature or physical rules.

So you are saying some invisible, non-physical thing has complete power over everything. Why would you expect anyone to believe that?

I am not sure as I do not know if you will deny the evidence or not. My evidence is the internet, history journals, archaeological finds, and the Bible.

Is the "evidence" you have enough to convince you beyond reasonable doubt that God exists?

what then, is this "available evidence?"

The available evidence I have - which I use to determine if a fully omniscient & omnipotent being exists - is probably precisely the same available evidence almost every other human being has.

You may believe what you want. However, according to the Bible and many historical and archaeological digs, Jesus in fact lived and died. Because his body cannot be found however, He had to have been resurrected.

Then you are saying any dead body that can't be found must have been resurrected.

We can divide all dead bodies into three categories
1) Dead bodies that someone went searching for which were found
2) Dead bodies that someone went searching for which were not found
3) Dead bodies that no one ever went searching for

How many dead bodies over the entire course of time would you say fall into each category? You may express it in percentages.

What should He do then, to get you out of your predicament? spawn a lion in your living room and make it open the door and walk out? Not to sound sarcastic, but it sounds like you want Him to walk a tightrope for you.

If God knows everything, then he knows precisely what it will take to get me to believe he exists. And if he wants me to exist, then he's either a fool or extremely stubborn if he doesn't do what it takes.

 

[Cieza]

Dear Cieza. There are thousands upon thousand of Christian men and Christian women world wide, who sincerely believe they are right. I cannot make up my mind whether you are brave or just taking a gamble. Have you not even the smallest doubt that you might be mistaken? and might be ending up in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light? I say this with love, Cieza. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ. P.S. Eternity is forever.

Upon what basis do these thousands upon thousand of Christian people believe they are right? Have they ever heard first hand accounts of someone who went to heaven?

 

[Cieza]

Since the existence of God, the atoning death of Christ for our sins and his bodily resurrection are central tenets of the Christian faith, how could you be a Christian and not believe these things? And why on earth would you want to embrace a worldview for which you think there is no reasonable basis?

The fact of the matter is that, if God is real and wants a personal relationship with you, only He can convince you of the reality of Himself and the truth of His Word. The kind of core conviction of God's existence and the deep love for Him typical of a genuine child of God is not something any amount of arguing or evidence can manufacture. Only God can bring such conviction and foster such love in us. Being intellectually satisfied that God exists and that the Bible is true does not necessarily bring a person into fellowship with God. Salvation and adoption into God's family is God's work alone.

Selah.

Then don't blame me for believing that God doesn't exist. Perhaps you should blame God - for not doing what it would take for me to believe he exists.

 

[Zbigge1031]

So you are saying some invisible, non-physical thing has complete power over everything. Why would you expect anyone to believe that?

Because if a physical being can't create the universe. Only a metaphysical one can. The physical exists only within the universe, and something that is within the universe can't create the universe.

Is the "evidence" you have enough to convince you beyond reasonable doubt that God exists?

Yes, for most of us it is. Nothing can be proven for certainty, but I am reasonably sure that God exists.

The available evidence I have - which I use to determine if a fully omniscient & omnipotent being exists - is probably precisely the same available evidence almost every other human being has.

Not really. You seem to place such tight restrictions on what you actually consider to be evidence. Most people accept far much more, and thus have much more available.

If God knows everything, then he knows precisely what it will take to get me to believe he exists. And if he wants me to exist, then he's either a fool or extremely stubborn if he doesn't do what it takes.

God doesn't bow to you. He does what He wants, which is what is holy and righteous. If He's not revealing Himself to you in the way that you want, it probably means you are the one asking too much. You're refusal to consider any evidence that doesn't fall into your neat little categories is your own foolishness and stubborness, not His.

 

[Zbigge1031]

Upon what basis do these thousands upon thousand of Christian people believe they are right? Have they ever heard first hand accounts of someone who went to heaven?

Does this mean that most of ancient history never happened? We have no first hand records of Alexander the Great, yet we still believe he existed and attribute conquests to him. Not knowing something from a first hand perspective does not in any way make something untrue.

 

[drich0150]

Christians have told me I need to believe that God is our supreme being and that Jesus died for the sins of others and that he was resurrected from the dead and still watches over us. However, all available evidence has strongly suggested to me that none of this is true. If I did want to be a Christian, am I then expected to lie to myself with respect to my beliefs?

You've asked this question 20 different ways, and yet the answer remains the same. You are expected to ask seek and knock for the "proof" you need.

(Read Luke 11)

 

[ChristianT]

So you are saying some invisible, non-physical thing has complete power over everything. Why would you expect anyone to believe that?

I like Z. Bigge's answer.

Is the "evidence" you have enough to convince you beyond reasonable doubt that God exists?

Yes it is.

The available evidence I have - which I use to determine if a fully omniscient & omnipotent being exists - is probably precisely the same available evidence almost every other human being has.

Wonderful, then we're on the same page: You have a cloudy perspective and might be ignoring everyone else's take on it. You might see the screen from up close, and I'm not saying I'm sitting on the top row, but I do believe that I am sitting at least one row behind you.

Then you are saying any dead body that can't be found must have been resurrected.

No, I'm just saying that many people have found bodies from Jesus' time, yet no one found HIS body!

We can divide all dead bodies into three categories
1) Dead bodies that someone went searching for which were found
2) Dead bodies that someone went searching for which were not found

These are relevant

3) Dead bodies that no one ever went searching for

Do you honestly think not ONE person EVER went searching for the body of Jesus?

How many dead bodies over the entire course of time would you say fall into each category? You may express it in percentages.

I don't know (or care) who falls into each category. But I do know all bodies fall into the grave besides that of Christ. If His body fell into the grave (but did not conquer it, then what hope do we have? )

If God knows everything, then he knows precisely what it will take to get me to believe he exists. And if he wants me to exist, then he's either a fool or extremely stubborn if he doesn't do what it takes.

Or maybe He already tried and you weren't ready. If this is true, then you are simply not ready yet. This means that you must be patient for what He is doing.

I'm not saying you have this, but almost everyone in current American culture falls into the cultural trap of "instant gratification." You want honestly want God, I know! Problem is, you want Him now this very instant. God doesn't usually move through people instantly. He works on their patience, and right when it matters or just when they want Him most while they are the most humble, He presents Himself to them.

I honestly believe you desire to know about God. But I want you to KNOW God, personally. Of course, as it was said, this is only something He can do. There's nothing magical about our words, but I will pray for you, and if you have an honest and humble heart, I am sure you will come to know Him.

Peace, Joy and Love, Cieza!
And I wish you a happy holiday season!

 

[aiki]

Then don't blame me for believing that God doesn't exist. Perhaps you should blame God - for not doing what it would take for me to believe he exists.

God works in response to the intent of your heart. If He hasn't revealed Himself to you, it is because you don't truly desire Him. It is your determined disbelief that prevents you from fellowship with God, which is something for which you are completely responsible. God holds out to everyone the same offer of salvation and fellowship with Him and the same set of evidences in support of the reality of that offer. He doesn't make special offers to people like you who refuse to accept both the offer of salvation and the accompanying validating evidence of its reality. Why should He? If He started making special offers, tailored to the demands of every skeptical person out there, He'd be endlessly jumping through their prove-to-me hoops. This would reverse the proper nature of the relationship that God by virtue of His being God ought to have with His creatures. As God He calls the shots, He determines the methods by which we approach Him, and the scope of the evidence required to trust Him. If you refuse them, He is not diminished, you are.

God doesn't need you or I to believe in Him. He is perfect and thus without need of any kind. His efforts to redeem us from our sin are all for our sake. We don't deserve to be saved and He isn't made more perfect by our acceptance of His salvation. Nonetheless, God, because He is a merciful and loving God, has reached into the dark muck of humanity and drawn many into the light and holiness of the kingdom of His dear Son. You can open your heart to Him and be redeemed too, or you can sit defiant before His truth, and refuse to submit to His way of salvation, and offer yourself weak justification for doing so. If you persist in the latter course, you will one day stand before God condemned to hell. Rail against this truth all you want, but God doesn't bend to suit you; you must bend in humility to Him or one day be eternally removed from His presence and cast into "outer darkness" forever.

Selah.

 

[1Prophetess]

Christians have told me I need to believe that God is our supreme being and that Jesus died for the sins of others and that he was resurrected from the dead and still watches over us. However, all available evidence has strongly suggested to me that none of this is true. If I did want to be a Christian, am I then expected to lie to myself with respect to my beliefs?

I laughed out loud when I read this. Do you realize you've created a question that is so circular that there is no way it can result in an answer for you?

If you believe, how can you be lying to yourself? If you say it isn't true, you don't believe therefore you are not lying.

No matter what, you can not have a relationship with God.

If God is real, then he would be fully aware of the predicament I'm in. But he doesn't do anything. Is this because he doesn't care? Because he is incapable of doing anything? Or perhaps he isn't real.

What makes you think God isn't fully aware of the predicament you're in? Prove He isn't.

Interest does not necessarily demand action.

If your parents are aware, but they do nothing, does that mean they are not real?

So you are saying some invisible, non-physical thing has complete power over everything.

...


Your reference to God as a "thing" is quite offensive to me personally.

...

...

Job 42:8 tells me I need to pray for you.

Father, forgive Cieza and all atheists in their blasphemy for they know not what they do.

Why would you expect anyone to believe that?

I will answer your question because of Proverbs 26:5 in spite of the fact that you have highly offended me.

1) I believe it.
2) It seems logical to me, but then I have proved Him to myself.
3) I have a very high IQ--an earthly merit (not necessarily a Godly one).
4) Many others with average or higher IQs have believed and been saved over the centuries.
5) So my conclusion has to be: Why wouldn't you believe it?

Is the "evidence" you have enough to convince you beyond reasonable doubt that God exists?

Absolutely!

...

If God knows everything, then he knows precisely what it will take to get me to believe he exists. And if he wants me to exist, then he's either a fool or extremely stubborn if he doesn't do what it takes.

How could God be a fool? Father, forgive Cieza for she knows not what she does.



IF there is a God, why does He need you?

If there is a God, and if He is omnipotent and omniscient, He necessarily and logically would set the rules. If He was omniscient, He would logically set the rules (in a relationship between God and man because man is not omniscient). God would base the rules on what would be the best for everyone (including Himself). If He sets the rules for an encounter, and you refuse to follow them, why should He change the rules only for you so you can begin to have His presents?

If you refuse to believe because He does not change the rules for one person in centuries--YOU, are you being so stubborn that you refuse to meet Him based on your demand that an All Mighty God bow to your demands to meet you on your terms? Do you not see the folly of that?

Yes, it is you who is being stubborn!! And that seems way beyond any stubbornness you could attribute to God. Furthermore, it is supreme arrogance on your part to think that you are the exception to a rule that God set up centuries ago for everyone that would ever be born on the face of the earth!

What makes you think you're more important than centuries of people? What makes you, one and only you, the exception? What do you have to offer that makes you so much superior to everyone that has ever lived that you should be the exception? Are you Napoleon? Are you Solomon? Are you Ghandi? Are you Mother Teresa? Why would God even consider your folly? Answer me that!

He has innumerable gifts for you. You have nothing for Him except one thing--yourself. And that gift you have for him is dirty and defective and damned. He has set the rules how to meet Him to pick up your gifts. He has not changed those rules in centuries. He is not going to make an exception for you.


Who do you think you are?

Upon what basis do these thousands upon thousand of Christian people believe they are right? Have they ever heard first hand accounts of someone who went to heaven?

Yes, I have experienced that so I can give you a first hand account.

But you don't believe in God, so how can you believe in miracles from God?

God tells me, in Matthew 7: 6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.


My interpretation of that scripture is that I shouldn't tell you.

 

[hedrick]

Christians have told me I need to believe that God is our supreme being and that Jesus died for the sins of others and that he was resurrected from the dead and still watches over us. However, all available evidence has strongly suggested to me that none of this is true. If I did want to be a Christian, am I then expected to lie to myself with respect to my beliefs?

Of course not. What i would expect from non-Christians is to live lives based on the best they know, and to remain open to new evidence if it turns up.

Lying to yourself isn't going to deceive God, and may make it more difficult to pay attention if you do at some point find a real attraction to God.

I don't see any point on speculating on how God is going to judge non-Christians, when you don't believe in God or his judgement in the first place.