Am I Christian?

[quatona]

Good question. I don't know. I guess it's a matter of opinion and perspective. I guess I'm just trying to get opinions from people here since this is a christian forum.

You´ll get a lot of different opinions from a lot of different self-professing Christians. How are you planning to process the variety of answers?

I can try to explain what I do want. I want to be able to worship God and Jesus without the constraints of a church that is full of dogma. I know that I can do this, however I feel lonely.

I see.

I would love to find a christian church that is alignment with this.

I am not sure I understand: In alignment with what?
In alignment with your wish to have a dogma-free church, or in alignment with the dogmas (convictions, beliefs) you described in your OP? Or something else?

I did go to a church for a while in santa cruz that I loved because of the positive messages and it wasn't boring like many other churches I have been to. However this church had a lot of new age beliefs that I also didn't resonate with.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you are looking for a church that
a. is rather inclusive (in that it doesn´t have strong dogmas that would exclude persons from being part of this) church, and
b. is rather exclusive (in that it doesn´t integrate positions that don´t resonate with you).
Do you see the problem that you are creating here?

Personally, I feel that loneliness and belonging to a group of persons who do not share my convictions 100% isn´t the same thing.
I also tend towards the notion that in a living system (such as a church, for example) there will always be a certain amount of diversion, conflict and disagreement. That´s a good thing, in my book - because it means challenge, change, new ideas, development, etc.
Beliefs are a very personal thing. You won´t find any two people who agree in every aspect and detail.

It seems to me that - in your conflicting desires for a group that is defined by a certain dogmatic agreement of the members and OTOH isn´t too exclusive - you will have to settle for a compromise which will require you to accept that certain convictions of other members do not resonate with you.

I want to be clear and be able to explain to others what my spiritual beliefs are in a way that makes sense.

You seemed to be able to articulate them in your OP, quite fine.
A label, however, will always and necessarily be less precise than an explanation.

I can't do this if I am confused myself. I don't want to be confused.

Are you confused about what you actually believe, or are you confused about the labelling thing?

I want to know if what I am doing is good enough, I know that people here can not tell me that. I am just acknowledging that is what I'm thinking.

Well, I am just trying to help you find your way of dealing with the problem.

 

[Jenniferstar]

You´ll get a lot of different opinions from a lot of different self-professing Christians. How are you planning to process the variety of answers?

My understanding of Christianity is what I was taught when I was 12. To be a Christian is to have accepted Jesus as your personal lord and savior. To be born again. That God sent his son to die on the cross, for other people's sins. This I have a hard time with.
Why would God send his son to die? Why do we need a man who is the son of God to die so that we can be forgiven? It doesn't make sense to me anymore.

However I believe strongly in a lot of other christian beliefs and values. But the above statement seems to be the most important....to be labeled as a christian?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you are looking for a church that
a. is rather inclusive (in that it doesn´t have strong dogmas that would exclude persons from being part of this) church, and
b. is rather exclusive (in that it doesn´t integrate positions that don´t resonate with you).
Do you see the problem that you are creating here?

Yes. haha. This must be why people start their own churches.

It seems to me that - in your conflicting desires for a group that is defined by a certain dogmatic agreement of the members and OTOH isn´t too exclusive - you will have to settle for a compromise which will require you to accept that certain convictions of other members do not resonate with you.

Hmmm. Thanks.

Are you confused about what you actually believe, or are you confused about the labelling thing?

This is where it gets confusing. I am pretty solid in my beliefs, but not 100%. I am very confused about the labeling. I guess that I am not in a christian in some ways and a christian in other ways, but I always thought it was one way or the other and no in between.

 

[Gottservant]

This is where it gets confusing. I am pretty solid in my beliefs, but not 100%. I am very confused about the labeling. I guess that I am not in a christian in some ways and a christian in other ways, but I always thought it was one way or the other and no in between.

Are you white?

I am white I know that whites have a culture of being very extreme about things they are sensitive to, you might just need to put your opinion on the shelf for a little while and let God speak to you about things like perspective and difference and timing.

Don't be easily offended is I guess what I'm saying.

 

[quatona]

Jennifer, it is my impression that you are currently dealing with three distinct problems, each of which needs to be considered in its own right:

1. The question "What is a TrueChristian, and with the convictions I hold, do I qualify?"
2. Your "loneliness" (i.e. your desire to be part of a community of sufficiently like-minded people)
3. The fact that your beliefs and convictions are changing, and that some of those parts that used to be solid foundations of your personal belief system are beginning to crumble.

ad1. As of now, you seem to be concentrating on the first question - as though an answer would solve the others, as well. Which I think won´t work. After all, the first question is basically but a semantics question, and what label you put on your beliefs doesn´t change or affect them in the least.

ad2. You told me about this church you found quite appealing (apart from a few esoteric tendencies that didn´t sit well with you). To me, it sounded like this felt, in a way, like a "spiritual home (for lack of a better term) to you - in that you were an accepted member, in that most people shared a lot of your convictions, in that participating in their activities to a certain extent fulfilled your need for "belonging". I guess, I don´t understand why this wasn´t good enough, for you (unless somebody there told you "With your convictions, you aren´t a TrueChristian, and you aren´t welcome here if you adjust them to match our dogma", or something to this effect).

ad3. I am afraid I have no idea how to address this. Chances are that you and I have too different personality structures. For me, change is what makes life life. I don´t find the fact that I don´t hold the same beliefs anymore that I held as a 12yo (or even five years ago), unsettling or confusing. I find questions thrilling and answers rather boring.
Now, I do seem to understand that one purpose that religion serves is: provide you with (eternal) certainties, with a solid foundation from which you can safely approach the many uncertainties in life. So I guess I understand why observing your transcendental beliefs crumbling or changing is unsettling to you.
However, since I personally don´t belief in permanence, in stability, in certainties I suspect there isn´t enough common ground between us that would make my advice valuable for you.

My understanding of Christianity is what I was taught when I was 12. To be a Christian is to have accepted Jesus as your personal lord and savior. To be born again. That God sent his son to die on the cross, for other people's sins. This I have a hard time with.
Why would God send his son to die? Why do we need a man who is the son of God to die so that we can be forgiven? It doesn't make sense to me anymore.

However I believe strongly in a lot of other christian beliefs and values. But the above statement seems to be the most important....to be labeled as a christian?





Yes. haha. This must be why people start their own churches.



Hmmm. Thanks.



This is where it gets confusing. I am pretty solid in my beliefs, but not 100%. I am very confused about the labeling. I guess that I am not in a christian in some ways and a christian in other ways, but I always thought it was one way or the other and no in between.

 

[Tigger45]

Good question. I don't know. I guess it's a matter of opinion and perspective. I guess I'm just trying to get opinions from people here since this is a christian forum.


I can try to explain what I do want. I want to be able to worship God and Jesus without the constraints of a church that is full of dogma. I know that I can do this, however I feel lonely. I would love to find a christian church that is alignment with this. I did go to a church for a while in santa cruz that I loved because of the positive messages and it wasn't boring like many other churches I have been to. However this church had a lot of new age beliefs that I also didn't resonate with.
I want to be clear and be able to explain to others what my spiritual beliefs are in a way that makes sense. I can't do this if I am confused myself. I don't want to be confused. I want to know if what I am doing is good enough, I know that people here can not tell me that. I am just acknowledging that is what I'm thinking.

Hi Jennifer,

First to be 'labeled' Christian means you are a follower of Christ. And being a 'follower' in this case signifies you are on a spiritual path that is headed by Jesus = (God saves) Christ = (anointed one). The majority of His incarnate time on this earth is recorded in the four gospels = (good news) Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. In those recordings of His life you will noticed He rebuked the legalistic, self righteous religious leaders of that time. You'll also notice that Jesus treated women at a much higher degree of respect then they were treated within that culture at that time. He also hung out with sinners and taxes collectors and actually 'touched' people with leprosy!!!

Seriously we can help you find a church like you had in Santa Cruz minus the new age stuff. It would be best if you started the thread in<Looking for a Church> because there are people who frequently visit that forum who are very knowledgeable about all the different Christian denominations plus in this forum you will get a lot of non-Christians who will not be able to help you in this quest as you can already see. Plus we will be unbiased and actually listen and help you sort out your questions without the end means of just leading you to our particular tradition/denomination. Hope to see you there

 

[bhsmte]

I am still confused about christ as savior. Part of me really believes and the other part really believes that God loves everyone so much and to the point that if people were in touch with their hearts and with God that they wouldn't need a savior. And this also goes towards my inclination that people who commit awful and violent crimes have little place with Godly people. This is my one judgement that I have hard time letting go of.

It would appear then that you possess significant doubts in regards to the Christian story.

By the way, your issue with murderers and rapists being forgiven by finding Jesus in prison, while people who have lived good lives and are not Christian are doomed, was one of my primary issues with Christianity and one of the reasons I couldn't buy the story as being moral any longer.

 

[Jenniferstar]

Are you white?

I am white I know that whites have a culture of being very extreme about things they are sensitive to, you might just need to put your opinion on the shelf for a little while and let God speak to you about things like perspective and difference and timing

Yes I am white, but that seems to like an issue with most people regardless of race, but ok. Thanks

 

[Albion]

Jennifer, it sounds as though the answer to your OP question is "no." You have good, Christian values, but without a commitment to Christ it would be hard to see how you'd be considered a Christian. You don't belong to a church, so even the idea of being considered a nominal Christian doesn't appear reasonable. But if you were to commit to Christ as your Lord and Savior, the profile of your beliefs otherwise would certainly be within normal limits.

 

[FireDragon76]

"Christian" is just a label, one that actually came from outside the movement. Early Christians didn't call themselves "Christian", they called themselves followers of the Way.

Obviously you are seeking. You might want to explore a group such as the Quakers (Society of Friends), liberal Anabaptists, or Episcopalians or Lutherans (ELCA not LCMS), or Presbyterians (basically, liberal mainline Protestants). Episcopalians or Quakers in particular might be just your thing. You want to worship God and Jesus but you don't want a lot of focus on doctrines- a religious community will help shape you and then you can decide if you want to be a Christian or not.

The focus on "witnessing"- not all Christians do that, in fact I'd say the majority of the worlds Christian faiths don't focus on this. I would even suggest witnessing, going up to people and just bombarding them with your religious experiences or why they "need Jesus" is bad manners and not something Jesus wants us to do. Our life should be the witness to the truth of our faith, our faith shouldn't be reduced to some kind of product or ideology we are peddling.