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He is the way

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Some of our food donations are done through the Catholic Church. Many of our members also donate their time to preparing food and serving it as well as cleaning up afterwards at Catholic venues. Latter-day Saint Charities is not the only source of charity given by members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. It is just one of the ways we donate. In addition to Latter-day Saint Charities we also donate millions of pounds of food through our welfare program where people donate their time and effort to providing food for those in need. The Deseret Industries provide jobs and job assistance. The fast offering program supplies money for people in need whether they are members or not. How much of that $50 billion from your source "About 10 million tithers in the US donate $50 billion yearly to church & non-profits." goes to charity? This also includes tithes from members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints as the statistics include ALL churches in the United States. Church And Religious Charitable Giving Statistics | Nonprofits Source
 
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Jamesone5

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This is the purpose of the thread, per your OP:



That's what the words you just now quoted refer to. The topic of discussion is the battle you have invited members of the LDS church to wage on your beliefs.

you are just another Mormon who is trying to speak for me.

Chips fall where they may---you Mormons can respond or you do not --I really do not care but when you do I will respond back.

I have not "invited" anyone.
 
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dzheremi

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So, in other words, you don't actually have any grounds to say that others don't do good works (what you had originally insinuated), or that Mormonism even does it better (what I actually asked for), it's just something that you also do?

That's fine, but it's not a criticism of Christianity, then. Again, it's $50 billion given yearly versus $2.2 billion given over 35 years (~$63 million a year).

Unless you have other statistics about LDS giving that somehow prove you are doing more than Christians do, this cannot be a point in your favor.
 
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TasteForTruth

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you are just another Mormon who is trying to speak for me.

Chips fall where they may---you Mormons can respond or you do not --I really do not care but when you do I will respond back.

I have not "invited" anyone.
OK.
 
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Ironhold

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I can't speak for anyone else here, but I personally have encountered members of mainstream Christian denominations who literally preach "Just express faith in God, ask him to save you, and you're saved. You need do nothing more.".

Just say a prayer, feel content that you've got a one-way ticket to Heaven, and off you go. That's it. If such a person sins or backslides? "Oh, they were never really saved to begin with."

I've seen this mindset used to justify people doing all sorts of things that anyone who truly calls upon the name of Christ would recognize as sin and wickedness, but because these people believed that their prayer was a one-way ticket they expect to be going to Heaven anyway.

In fact, the so-called "Christian Counter-Cult" has proven itself to be a worse hub of skive and villainy that Mos Eisley. Once people started doing background checks of many of the more prominent figures the skeletons started piling up like an awful horror movie.

I bring this all up because I've seen some of these same people declare that our charitable giving counts as a "work" - even when we donate directly to food banks and the like - and that they therefore conclude we're trying to buy our way into Heaven.

How does this sit with all of you?
 
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He is the way

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Everyone -- what makes you think they don't?---by everyone--I do mean Christians. They just don't go around making a big deal of their good works to rack up points with God or man.
It is our duty to do the works to glorify God.
 
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He is the way

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I did not say Christians are not charitable or that they do not do good works, and that is not what I insinuated either. Neither did you answer my question.
 
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How many are doing this? Many more Christians than Mormons. Perhaps you could start someplace such as here (and these are only a few of the believers that we know of. How many are not even accounted for?)
 
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dzheremi

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I did not say Christians are not charitable or that they do not do good works, and that is not what I insinuated either. Neither did you answer my question.

I don't run that monitoring organization so I don't know why you think I would have such a detailed breakdown. It reports that $50 billion is given yearly to church & non-profits, so I assume that this means that $50 billion is given yearly to church & non-profits. If you have any reasonable objection to this, I'd like to hear it.

By the way, since this is the way you've chosen to go, you should know that Christians have independently formed organizations such as The Trinity Foundation, which is dedicated to documenting, exposing, and stopping religiously-based fraud in self-styled Christian organizations (primarily televangelists' missions, which makes sense if you've ever...seen or heard of televangelists).

Where can we look to for independent review of Mormon fraud supported by Mormons themselves? Anywhere?

Fraud is a huge problem among Mormons, after all, such that Utah has been labeled the fraud capital of the USA. I know you hate videos because they expose you to truths you don't like and force you to use your brain, but for anyone here who can think and cares about the fact that Mormons are being fleeced (and we all should), here is a presentation on the LDS/MLM connection and related matters that Mormons seem particularly susceptible to being involved in:


Again I will suggest to you that maybe if matters you bring up end up making Mormonism look worse (less transparent, less accepting of responsibility, less responsive, etc.) than Christianity, then they cannot be used as points against Christianity or in favor of Mormonism.

But go ahead, keep digging that hole! I'll keep waiting for any actual point.
 
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dzheremi

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I can't speak for anyone else here, but I personally have encountered members of mainstream Christian denominations who literally preach "Just express faith in God, ask him to save you, and you're saved. You need do nothing more.".

Okay, and what of those of us whose faith does not teach such things? That is to say, the vast majority of Christians in the entire world: all Orthodox, all Catholics, most traditionalist Protestants (things like the traditional Lutheran or Presbyterian confessions cannot reasonably and respectfully be summed up in a sentence like that), etc.

Just say a prayer, feel content that you've got a one-way ticket to Heaven, and off you go. That's it. If such a person sins or backslides? "Oh, they were never really saved to begin with."

And this different than Mormonism's feelings-based 'burning in the bosom' confirmation of itself how, exactly?


Those people are playing a dangerous game with their lives and their eternal souls, I would say. Again, what does this have to do with the vast majority of Christians who have ever existed in the entire world? Maybe if the original complaint which inspired me to start this thread was against Revivalist-type Evangelicals I would be more agreeable, but your coreligionist He Is The Way asserted that my Church's (the Orthodox Church) faith should be open to criticism, and I can tell you that we sure as hell don't teach anything like this characterization of modern pop-Evangelicalism in the Coptic Orthodox Church.

So enough with the bait and switch, alright? I don't think anyone here would pretend that addressing the problems of the Hedrickites (about 7,000 people) or some other tiny Mormon sect while ignoring the varieties of Mormonism to which virtually all Mormons in the world belong is really addressing the LDS faith. I'll thank you to apply the same to Christianity and not swap out "I personally know people" in place of what is actually shown to be normative in Christianity.


I don't care. If you want to continue to live in a world where The God Makers is still fresh investigative pseudo-expose of your religion because that makes your critics easier to malign and caricature, that's on you. I started this thread because I thought Mormons had something to say that related to the claims that they were making in other places which were inappropriate for those threads. I'm still waiting.


I think you're taking the 'mudslinging' bit in the OP more literally than I had assumed anyone would. My mistake.

Alas, the more of it you throw (and the more of exactly the same type as you always do: "I've personally seen", "Christian counter cult", etc.), the more it stinks up the place and becomes clear that this isn't mud at all...
 
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He is the way

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So $50 billion is collected by all of the churches in the United States and some goes into church buildings, wages, heating, janitorial, electricity, computers, building upkeep, land, charity, etc. However you expect me to believe it all goes to charity. By the way part of that $50 billion is money collected by The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints so that can be deducted from the $50 billion. I don't know how much that would be just for the United States. Your statement that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is worth $100 billion was because the statement made by one person. That may or may not be the truth. It could be based on land, buildings, etc. It is not like other churches don't have these things.

It is sad that Utah is labeled the fraud capital of the United States. Perhaps it is part of the process of removing the tares from the wheat. There are evil people in every church. I don't hate videos because they expose the truth. Many of them are only half true and very biased. I prefer to debate real objective statements than to popularize biased videos. Many Christians believe once saved always saved, but the Bible states:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
 
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Ironhold

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So my personal and direct experiences mean nada because you feel that they're not directly applicable to you and yours?

That's what I'm getting.
 
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dzheremi

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Again, no I don't. I expect you to believe that when it says $50 billion is generated yearly for churches and non-profits, that's exactly what it means. You're the one claiming that I'm saying otherwise.

By the way part of that $50 billion is money collected by The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints so that can be deducted from the $50 billion.

Okay...then it's $43 billion versus $7 billion, and everything you've written about where else it could go also applies to the Mormon religion. (Though all of this is included in charitable giving, not separate from it -- i.e., the upkeep of churches is a kind of charitable giving as well; I suspect that they only phrased it this way so that they could contrast it with non-tithe giving by non-churchgoers, which would presumably not be going to or through churches at all, as they do at the link.) So this is just like the last thing you brought up: Not something you do better or that Christianity does not do -- just something you also do, without necessarily indicating that the money would leave the Mormon religion at all! So this is again not something that is unique to or uniquely supportive of Mormonism.


That's a lie. It's a $100 billion dollar investment fund. Read the actual article please.

It is sad that Utah is labeled the fraud capital of the United States. Perhaps it is part of the process of removing the tares from the wheat.

Perhaps you're gullible and will believe anything that your lying, manipulative, greedy leaders will tell you, because Mormonism breeds unthinking obedience and servility.

There are evil people in every church.

Not the point.

I don't hate videos because they expose the truth. Many of them are only half true and very biased. I prefer to debate real objective statements than to popularize biased videos.

So you decide what is 'biased' and what isn't based on what you won't watch?

Many Christians believe once saved always saved, but the Bible states

What does this have to do with anything we're talking about? You asked a question about who is doing good works, presuming that this is something Mormonism outshines Christianity in. That has been shown to be spectacularly wrong, so now you move on to something unrelated?

This is a pretty lousy way of debating (or avoiding debating) in a thread I made specifically so that you can air your grievances against my Church. I'm still waiting for you to actually do that, but apparently you cannot stick to the topic once your assumptions about who is or isn't doing what have been shown to be baseless.

Maybe next time you won't make false claims in the first place like you did in the other thread, since you apparently can't back them up with anything.
 
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dzheremi

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So my personal and direct experiences mean nada because you feel that they're not directly applicable to you and yours?

That's what I'm getting.

I'm saying that the plural of anecdote is not data, yes, and that you ought to be mindful of when your own experience contradicts what the vast majority of world Christianity teaches so as to not present your personal experiences as though they say anything about all the people you haven't interacted with and what their churches teach and believe.

To tie it into the thread that inspired me to make this one, if I meet one or one hundred Mormons who believe in Brigham Young's Adam-God theory, does that suddenly make this a teaching of the modern LDS religion? No, right?

If you can recognize that, you can recognize why your way of posting is not effective.
 
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K Watt

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Seeking truth is important. We are told to be ready to defend our faith. If we think Mormonism is in error, shouldn't we address this and try to find the truth?
 
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Randy777

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Strict obedience to the commandments of LOVE and diligence in seeking God with faith are of paramount importance according to the Bible. It is our duty as followers of Jesus Christ. He will grant salvation to the obedient.
Care to explain this?
Kolob is a star or planet described in the Book of Abraham, a sacred text of the Latter Day Saint movement. The Book of Abraham is traditionally held by several Latter Day Saint denominations as having been translated from an Egyptian papyrus scroll by Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement.

What specifically did Joseph smith find wrong with all the churches that he left that faith?

What did he restore?

I myself consider Mormons outside the faith.

I have believed and loved Jesus as far back as my memory goes. I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I know Jesus and He knows me. I came to Him by faith.
 
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He is the way

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In my original post I said: "I have been over many of the scriptures that are ignored. Here is one of them:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

How many are doing this?"

Your posts are really not about glorifying God through works. What works are being done for the purpose of glorifying God?
 
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