Already lusted, so it is OK to have SEX?

[BlueJ]

Well, I have had a huge discussion with my brother and his friend whom are both young ADULTS about the thin line on lusting in the heart and actually having sexual intercourse. They both were saying that if you kissed, touch, or even look at another human being with lust, then it is like you have already committed a sexual sin. Of course in the bible it tells us that IF you have lusted in your heart then you have already committed a sin. I believe that is so. To me it sounds like there are justifying having actual sexual intercourse, just because you've lusted in your heart. Well, in this case if someone had thought about killing a person, then when you might as do it. :o Are you serious!
My brother's friend told me that I am not pure or a virgin because I have kissed guys. I am not perfect neither is anyone one else. They actually compared playing a R rated video to being a murderer.:o They also agreed that the terminology of virgin is a man mad word and that it haves no spiritually connection with the bible, that lust is equivalent to sexual intercourse. No sin is justified. I would not tell someone that if done a little of something that you might as well do it all. I would not tell someone that you are a virgin if you kissed someone.


I believe based on what I've read in the new and old testament that keeping your VIRGINITY is extremely more complicating than what they seen to believe. I believe that it is very and I mean extremely important to keep your virginity until marriage.
God stress the importance of marriage and purity. Of course we have all sin and have all lusted at some point in our life, in fact many of us think about sex everyday lets just face the facts. But I refuse to have someone to tell me that I have lost my virginity because I kissed some one. What they said seem to me the most insane. I strongly believe that I have a grand relationship with God. There is a convenient kept btw God and every person. There is also a convenient btw a man and a women, nether should violate there body by allowing another to violate him or her. My body does not belong to anyone but God. Once I am married I belong to him and he is the man of the house and God is head of us. I would not violate God nor anyone else.



Please, if your are intelligence and wise enough please respond.



I would like to know what you people thing about this and please give quotes from the bible if you can. Hopefully some wisdom can be shard on this topic.
What does the Hebrew text say about virginity and lust? that would as well.

 

[HuntingMan]

Hi

When Jesus spoke about lusting in their hearts He was showing them that sin is a heart issue, not merely external. They didnt have to kill a man to be sinning...all they had to do was hate their brother and they were guilty.

Jesus is in NO way saying that its ok to go have sex if we've lusted.
I mean, that would mean that if a married man slipped and lusted after another woman that he should just go have sex with her, if your friends were right.
Our Lord would never teach such a thing.

you said:

I believe that it is very and I mean extremely important to keep your virginity until marriage.

That is a fading thing these days. Keep it in your heart and when you have children teach the same wisdom to them.

you have not lost your virginity because of a kiss.
honestly, it sounds like these folks around you are almost trying to get you to go ahead and have sex....dont fall into it.

Something my wife Laura will always have that is her very own is that she saved herself for her husband. She actually cried one day before we did anything because she thought that something we did caused her to lose her virginity (we were even married then...we didnt consummate for about 2 years into our marriage because of some issues she has had to deal with).
She had prized herself on being virtuous and somewhat of a prude and it would have broken her heart to have lost that before being bound in marriage.

I have to run for a bit, but Ill be back to post scriptures as I can find them in a bit

 

[BlueJ]

Thanks a lot, I really do appreciate it. It makes me feel a lot better. But I am just a little upset that own brother and his friend would think that way. I was not raised to think that way neither was my brother. It''s almost like they envy me more doing the right think. I know that I am doing the right thing and I have no problem with it at all. I find God's law full feeling and just. But the long discussion which seems like a debate was nerve recking. They both actually believe what they said was true and right. Of course they are wrong.

 

[HuntingMan]

Thanks a lot, I really do appreciate it. It makes me feel a lot better. But I am just a little upset that own brother and his friend would think that way.

Well, bear in mind that teen/realy 20s young men can be horny little vermin sometimes
They surely arent anything to compare to when youre talking about sexual morality.

I was not raised to think that way neither was my brother.

Something happens to a young mans brain at puberty...we never really recover from it
Ive seen some kids raised in very godly homes who get into all sorts of trouble. Dont base your morality on anyone elses views otherwise youre just following the crowd.
You seem to have the knowledge within your heart already...Gods law written there, so you know the right you should be doing.

Listen, my wife was early twenties when we married...a virgin and had only kissed one guy her whole life.
Shes very pretty so its not a looks thing, she just really valued that part of herself and kept herself pure. It is a cherished thing that makes her smile when we talk about it...how she didnt give in like her brother did and just have sex because someone was pressuring or poking fun.

You know what is right. You will NEVER go wrong in doing the right and moral thing.

It''s almost like they envy me more doing the right think.

Quite possibly.

Let me tell you what happened to my wife and her brother.

She obviously is like you are and wanted to save that for marriage.
Her brother was like your brother sounds and ended up having sex and getting a girl pregnant (could have been you if you do have sex, kwim ?)
So hes messed his life up royally and turns around and did his best to provoke my wife (before we married) into having sex and going out and getting drunk with his friends.
He threw fits trying to get her to do things he did.

Well NOW his tone has changed. His life is messed up pretty badly, hes got a kid, the mother ran off and is having sex with who knows how many guys. His daughter is a wonderful girl, but shes been seriously affected by the situation.
NOW Lauras brother tells her how great her life is and how good she has it.
He understands the penalty he is paying now for what he has been doing and Im sure hes glad now that Laura didnt screw her life up as well.

You and your brother could very well take different paths...that is OK !
Dont make mistakes because someone else does or wants you to

I know that I am doing the right thing and I have no problem with it at all. I find God's law full feeling and just. But the long discussion which seems like a debate was nerve recking. They both actually believe what they said was true and right. Of course they are wrong.

Theyre young men...that says it all.
Most young men are thinking with things other than their brains.
Lauras brother is late 20s and every now and then he still says the dumbest things I think Ive ever heard and still does things that endangers his current relationship knowing the consequences he may have to pay.

Its great to see that you are strong in your stance.
Dont let ANYONE wear that down.
Id love for Laura to come by maybe tomorrow in this thread and talk to you a bit. Shes been thru what you are going thru for the most part with a brother trying to pressure you into something you know is wrong.

Ill give her the link tonite when she comes in (shes on a girls night out with coworkers presently).
Im sure shed be very interested in talking to you about it

 

[BlueJ]

I want to show him some of these comments to shed some light on the subject, but sadly I don’t think it would help. He is naive and very contradictory on spiritual subjects. Everyday we talk about God and the discussion eventually leads to a heated debate. I feel that he is in competition with me when it comes to God. Like I said, we both grew up in the church, but he has change over the past few years. He feels that he is right and that everyone is wrong. I feel sorry that he’s in a habit of convincing himself of the wrong things. He is prideful and he try‘s to find new ways for people to follow him. This subject matter is important, but I am afraid that I messed up when getting into a debate with him.

It never fails, he will contradict me every time. So I am afraid that I planted a seed of wrong doing. My brother and I are very close, but at the same time departing in terms of believes and spirituality.

How can get him to understand???
Is there a thin line btw intimacy and sexually intercourse?
Is there a thin line btw lust and SI?
So does having few boyfriends in the past makes me a lukewarm or sinner?

These questions are important. They may help me the next time someone questions my beliefs.

 

[Armistead]

You missed the point of what Christ was referring to in that verse. The verse is often read...if you have a sexual thought, you have already commited adultery.

Lust is not sexual thought in itself. Lust is to covet, the desire to take from someone something that doesn't belong to you. That is how lust is being used in this verse (we can get into the greek if needed.) Christ was not defining lust in this verse, but defining adultery. Simply, if you lust "covet" to take the mate of a person that is married, then you have comitted adultery already. Those pastors that use this verse to teach sexual thought is adultery, well..it's unbiblical. If that were the case, we could all biblically divorce just on the basis of our spouse having a sexual thought about another person.

The reasoning applies to many sins. If in my mind, I plan to kill someone, Christ says I've already murdered. Christ is trying to show that sins start in the mind. It could apply to any sin.

Sounds to me your trying to say..why not go through the act, because God will already judge me like I have. That is not the case here.

Certainly, one can sexually lust in a sinful way that is not adultery, but sin none the less....sounds like your looking for an excuse to excuse your guilt.

 

[HuntingMan]

How can get him to understand???

That is a huge question that I think we all wish we had an answer to.
I really dont know if anyone can tell you how because not everyone is going to react the same when we talk to them.

I have been counciling a young couple who SEEM like they 'get it' one day, then a couple days later its like they werent paying attention at all.
Its all coming down to pride and stubbornness on each of their parts and refusal to accept that they HAVE to grow up if they are going to save their relationship.
How can I get them to understand ?
If they dont really want to hear the facts and apply them to their lives then I may as well be talking to the wall.

Its the same with your brother.
And sadly, and this is the case with my own younger brother, sometimes it takes even coming close to death before the lights come on.
Just keep being a good role model and be there to talk, but dont let him bully you.
Anytime it gets to an argument just excuse yourself and dont continue because in his mind he may end up using that to justify himself even more.

Is there a thin line btw intimacy and sexually intercourse?

Intercourse is sex.
If you havent had sex, then you havent...dont let anyone trick you into thinking youve crossed that line even if youve been kissing or even more.
I dont know if Id say that getting too 'romantic' with someone is appropriate because the objective in all of that touching and kissing is typically to lead to sex.
All it will do is get you and the other person worked up physically and may lead to someplace you clearly dont want to go until marriage.

Is there a thin line btw lust and SI?

Not in reality, no.
Jesus was not telling the Jews that they were literally committing sexual immorality with their bodies when they lusted...He was showing them that their sins began in the heart.
Here is a another passage to show you His intent as a whole

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
(Mar 7:20-23 KJV)
​

Jesus isnt telling them that thinking about sex is the same as doing it but is showing them that their sin begins in the heart and mind.
The Jews seemed to believe that as long as they did not ACT that they did not sin by having hatred and bitterness in their hearts.
THAT is Christs point when He tells them that they commit adultery when they even think about a woman lustfully.

So does having few boyfriends in the past makes me a lukewarm or sinner?

We are ALL sinners saved by grace but that doesnt mean we have to be lukewarm.
Having a boyfriend doesnt make you anything. Just keep things on an appropriate level regardless of what some may have you do or believe.

Each day is a brand new day. You dont need to worry about what you did yesterday....instead make TODAY the day you do the right thing...and tomorrow do it all over again.

 

[MamaPyratekk]

I haven't read all the replies as I'm on my husband's blackberry and it's hard to read through them all on this thing. I mostly wanted to post some bible verses I believe address what you wrote about. As soon as I read this post I thought, "I just read a bunch of quotes on this in a book!". So here they are, I hope you find them helpful. "This is what I say to those who are not married and to women whose husbands have died.it is good if you do not get married. I am not married. But if you are not able to keep from doing that which you know is wrong, get married. It is better to get married than to have such strong sex desires." - 1 corinthians 7:8-9 "You asked me some questions in your letter. This is my answer. It is good if a man does not get married. But because of being tempted into sex sins, each man should get married and have his own wife." - 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 "Marriage should be respected by everyone. God will punish those who do sex sins and are not faithful in marriage." - hebrews 13:4

 

[BlueJ]

If they dont really want to hear the facts and apply them to their lives then I may as well be talking to the wall.

Its the same with your brother.
And sadly, and this is the case with my own younger brother, sometimes it takes even coming close to death before the lights come on.
Just keep being a good role model and be there to talk, but dont let him bully you.
Anytime it gets to an argument just excuse yourself and dont continue because in his mind he may end up using that to justify himself even more.

You are so right. That's what I've been thinking too. I feel that I am instigating him. He is very smart, but he seems to make up stuff from premeditated thoughts as he goes along.


Jesus was not telling the Jews that they were literally committing sexual immorality with their bodies when they lusted...He was showing them that their sins began in the heart.
Here is a another passage to show you His intent as a whole

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
(Mar 7:20-23 KJV)
​

This is good. This is what I know, but explained. I want to know what the original Hebrew text meant, not to much of what the modern church talks about. So, there is premeditated thoughts which could led to sin.

 

[HuntingMan]

You are so right. That's what I've been thinking too. I feel that I am instigating him. He is very smart, but he seems to make up stuff from premeditated thoughts as he goes along.

It is pretty easy to antagonize a situation once the emotions start getting out of hand.
In any situation in life regardless of what it is, its better to remove yourself from the direct conflict until tempers have calmed.
We usually arent thinking very logically once the attitude sets in so most of the talking then is pretty fruitless anyway.
Id talk to him as much as you can while he's calm, then if it starts getting heated just dismiss yourself but let him know that you will not talk to him about it while hes angry or aggitated. Tell him as long as the discussion is calm you will share your feelings, but not if hes going to bully you or throw a tantrum.

Tantrums are for 2 year olds, not adults.

This is good. This is what I know, but explained. I want to know what the original Hebrew text meant, not to much of what the modern church talks about. So, there is premeditated thoughts which could led to sin.

Well, Ill give you a link to some great interlinear software so you can examine the Hebrew and Greek, but honestly, until you really get into deeper study it may only serve to confuse you.

 

[BlueJ]

" - 1 corinthians 7:8-9 "You asked me some questions in your letter. This is my answer. It is good if a man does not get married. But because of being tempted into sex sins, each man should get married and have his own wife." - 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 "Marriage should be respected by everyone. God will punish those who do sex sins and are not faithful in marriage." - hebrews 13:4

This is good too. I have read this several times before. This is what I was referring to when I wrote about having a personal relationship with God as well with one man or women of the opposite sex, and of course in marriage. If someone has had sexual act in an absence of marriage it is a violation btw God and that person. The issue is can someone violate that trust and relationship God with only intimacy?
I can recall that in the bible God said the we belong to him. So, when a man or womens engage in sexual intercourse he and she has giving his or her body to another without Gods consent. Am I correct.

 

[HuntingMan]

Heres that link, BlueJ
http://www.scripture4all.org/

 

[Joykins]

I think you should maybe step back a little and consider the possibility that there is a difference between sexual desire and lust. Sexual desire is more or less hardwired into us as a species, it is a gift from God that gives us the drive to marry and reproduce for which we all should be grateful else we'd not be here.

Lust is something else again. Lust is the desire to take *that which is not ours* and use it *for our own purposes* -- especially when it comes to sex. So if you want to have sex with someone because they seem attractive to you--but you don't care anything about THEM, it's all about what YOU want, you just want to use them for sex and then discard them like a used kleenex--and you don't walk away from that thought, you are heading down a road where you are spiritually already in a state of sin.


Falling in love with someone with honorable intent, experiencing desire, and slowly progressing in intimacy as you progress toward marriage, with the goal of sex in marriage--there is nothing wrong with this. This is the proper use of sexuality. Sometimes we start out in all love and honor and it does not for whatever reason end in marriage--which is not horrible sin, just regrettable. Sometimes the sex starts before marriage, in which case it either can be redeemed by getting married, or the relationship does not end in marriage, in which case it generally ends in heartbreak, and is not God's ultimate goal for sexuality.

 

[Joykins]

I can recall that in the bible God said the we belong to him. So, when a man or womens engage in sexual intercourse he and she has giving his or her body to another without Gods consent. Am I correct.

As God created us to give our bodies to one another, I don't think that is quite right (as in, I don't think it's a question of asking God whether you can sleep with anyone...). God created us to give our bodies to one another within a certain context (lifetime commitment in marriage) and if we don't follow that pattern when doing so (and we have the option of course not to do so) we are outside of His plan in the matter.

2"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. 18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

 

[BlueJ]

I think you should maybe step back a little and consider the possibility that there is a difference between sexual desire and lust. Sexual desire is more or less hardwired into us as a species, it is a gift from God that gives us the drive to marry and reproduce for which we all should be grateful else we'd not be here.

Lust is something else again. Lust is the desire to take *that which is not ours* and use it *for our own purposes* -- especially when it comes to sex. So if you want to have sex with someone because they seem attractive to you--but you don't care anything about THEM, it's all about what YOU want, you just want to use them for sex and then discard them like a used kleenex--and you don't walk away from that thought, you are heading down a road where you are spiritually already in a state of sin.


Falling in love with someone with honorable intent, experiencing desire, and slowly progressing in intimacy as you progress toward marriage, with the goal of sex in marriage--there is nothing wrong with this. This is the proper use of sexuality. Sometimes we start out in all love and honor and it does not for whatever reason end in marriage--which is not horrible sin, just regrettable. Sometimes the sex starts before marriage, in which case it either can be redeemed by getting married, or the relationship does not end in marriage, in which case it generally ends in heartbreak, and is not God's ultimate goal for sexuality.

I 100% agree with this. The issue is me having to defend what I believe in. The person of which I was discussing it with believes that lust (sexual thoughts) and physical intimacy is the same as having sex or that a virgin is no better than a lustful person who engages in physical intimacy such as kissing or any form of physical affection.

 

[HuntingMan]

The person of which I was discussing it with believes that lust (sexual thoughts) and physical intimacy is the same as having sex or that a virgin is no better than a lustful person who engages in physical intimacy such as kissing or any form of physical affection.

I think someone pointed it out before, but does this mean if your mad enough to kill someone that you should just go ahead and do it ?
There IS a difference between the two regardless of what this person wants to believe.

Sins of the heart ARE sins, but that doesnt mean that we may as well commit them in body...Im afraid that anyone saying something like that is just making up excuses for their sinfulness.

The issue is me having to defend what I believe in.

I wouldnt bother, quite honestly.
If youve given your opinion and the person keeps attacking you just let them believe what they want...you keep YOU from doing wrong

 

[Joykins]

I 100% agree with this. The issue is me having to defend what I believe in. The person of which I was discussing it with believes that lust (sexual thoughts) and physical intimacy is the same as having sex or that a virgin is no better than a lustful person who engages in physical intimacy such as kissing or any form of physical affection.

One of the things Jesus was getting at in the sermon on the mount was that what's in our mind is as important as what we do with our bodies.

Virginity is overstressed by many IMO; what we need to be aiming for is sexuality fully integrated to God's plan for human beings. Anything that takes us away from that is bound to be disruptive.

It sounds like your brother and his friend are obsessed with virginity or sexual inexperience to the point where they are losing a sense of perspective. When it comes to sexual behavior, the Bible is more clearly concerned about promiscuity and prostitution than what we loosely term pre-marital sex. The "punishment" for premarital sex (if you want to call it that; and sexual intercourse itself is the only thing referred to in the Bible when speaking of intimacy in this context) is that you should get married to the person, which may be no punishment at all.

Exodus 22

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. 17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

I Cor. 7

36If anyone thinks he is acting improperly toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if she is getting along in years and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married.

 

[Joykins]

Sins of the heart ARE sins, but that doesnt mean that we may as well commit them in body...Im afraid that anyone saying something like that is just making up excuses for their sinfulness.

There is also the well-known psychological phenomenon, I don't know if it has a name, where if a person is condemned or punished for something they haven't done, they often eventually feel they might as well do it if they are going to suffer for it anyway. This is why it is harmful to try to make people feel guilty for things they haven't done.

 

[BlueJ]

Believe me when I tell you that I was very shock when I had that discussion. I have NEVER had that kind of discussion which seemed like a debate, specifically with a person who believe in God and reads the bible. Before this day I never thought seriously about the connection btw thoughts and actions in terms of being just the same.

On the subject about thinking about harming someone, we were discussing about premeditated murder. In the U.S or in some states, a person can be sentence to prison for premeditated murder from substantial evidence regarding a case he or she is just as guilty to someone who actually was caught in the killing.
Like I said before they compared playing a R rated video game, like GTA as being sinful. At the same time they where not trying to justify having sex, but to be contradictory. Overall, they are very serious about what they saying.

 

[Joykins]

How old are these guys anyway? Even though you say they are adults, they sound very young.