Almost 50 Years Of Dealing With The Energy Crisis

[Opdrey]

You're looking at it backwards. You have knowledge they didn't. If you're watching peaceful nations fall to despotic communist dictators....it might be entirely reasonable to be concerned.

Oh, sorry, I was just going by what the players said at the time.

 

[mark46]

Oh, sorry, I was just going by what the players said at the time.

Ho Chi Minh was a much, much better leader of North Vietnam than was any of the corrupt French and US puppets.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The US agreed to elections. When the time was close, and it was clear that H CHi Minh would win, the US refused to allow elections.

While the war was going on?

You disagree with the US signing a treaty to support elections.

I don't recall the treaty.

That's fine. I disagree with the US tearing up a treaty and re-starting a war with the Vietnese that the French had fought for many years.

I was under the impression that the French were still fighting when we entered. Barely, but still fighting.

You are correct that you don't know much about Ho Chi Minh. To many in the world, standing up to Japan meant something, and standing up to foreign armies meant something, and standing up to foreign installed dictators meant something.

Napoleon meant a lot to a lot of people. What's your point?

=========================
The reality is that the US, France and the UK divided the world up, with France getting Vietnam.

Huh?

Are we talking about a French colony that had existed for over 100 years?

They also chose to fight a long cold war with the Soviet Union. For many decades, nothing matters in world diplomacy other than whether one favored Russia or the West.

Yeah....I'm familiar with the cold war.

Do you know what the communist Vietnamese supported after they won?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Oh, sorry, I was just going by what the players said at the time.

And it's not apparent to you that they saw Communism as a threat?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ho Chi Minh was a much, much better leader of North Vietnam than was any of the corrupt French and US puppets.

I'm sure you think so.

Unfortunately, he was a Communist....so they're a 1 party system now.

And after checking....

No. The US did not sign off on an election treaty. Communist Vietnamese had been imprisoning and executing political rivals (as communists do) and the US did not think it would be a free and fair election....and rightly so.

Communists aren't nice people. It's a pretty common feature that once in power, they eliminate any political competition. I can't imagine why you see Ho Chi Minh as some great person. Did he liberate his people from foreign tyranny? Yeah...in many cases, against their will, and only to impose his own tyranny.

George Washington he ain't.

 

[Opdrey]

And it's not apparent to you that they saw Communism as a threat?

I thought I had explicitly said that very thing!

 

[durangodawood]

How about we just let God manage the environment as He has since the beginning of time. Why are we so prideful as Americans and humans to think that the minuscule influence that we have over pollution or the effects there of are of any significance.

Pride is denying what we can see right in front of us for the sake of preserving some treasured ideological commitment.

 

[Opdrey]

Pride is denying what we can see right in front of us for the sake of preserving some treasured ideological commitment.

I suspect that if someone were going around destroying Churches many of the pious would take action immediately as they should! But for some reason we are supposed to just sit around and watch humanity destroy the planet and cross our fingers that God is going to step in any minute now and fix it all.

The whole approach seems theologically dicey. If someone gave me a gift and I destroyed it and turned around to them and said "Thanks for the gift, now give me something better, this one is broken." I can't imagine that the gift giver would think me particularly grateful for the gift.

The thing we learned from the story of the Fall in Genesis is that we are now fully aware of good and evil. It is on us to understand that which we are doing and see it for the evil it is.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I thought I had explicitly said that very thing!

Then we agree.

What's your point?

 

[FireDragon76]

Pride is denying what we can see right in front of us for the sake of preserving some treasured ideological commitment.

It's not just pride, it's idolatry.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's not just pride, it's idolatry.

It doesn't matter.

There's no solutions on the table.

 

[Opdrey]

Then we agree.

What's your point?

Already made.

 

[disciple Clint]

Pride is denying what we can see right in front of us for the sake of preserving some treasured ideological commitment.

Pride is thinking that we have to help God. You can ask Abraham about that if you like.

 

[durangodawood]

Pride is thinking that we have to help God. You can ask Abraham about that if you like.

Sounds like a prescription for apathy.

Does God favor us stepping back and doing nothing in the face of problems? Is that a general prescription we can glean from the Bible?

 

[disciple Clint]

Sounds like a prescription for apathy.

Does God favor us stepping back and doing nothing in the face of problems? Is that a general prescription we can glean from the Bible?

not at all but we are talking about the life span of the earth and that is totally up to God, it will end when He decides it will end and nothing we can do will change that.

 

[mark46]

Support the French colonialists and the Japanese and the other oppressors of the Vietnese people all you want.

When you choose to, actually investigate the war between the Ho Chi Minh and the Japanese, and between Ho Chi Minh and the French and between Ho Chi Min and the US.

Believe what you wish. This is a truth free zone. Facts are for you to choose.
========
The reality is that the Geneva Accords called for elections. The West was going to lose, and the West refused to have the elections to determine the government of Viet Nam. The West chose dictatorship over elections, and a continuation of the French War, with the US taking over, and escalating it for a dozen years. Finally, the West withdrew its warriors and left.

While the war was going on?



I don't recall the treaty.



I was under the impression that the French were still fighting when we entered. Barely, but still fighting.



Napoleon meant a lot to a lot of people. What's your point?



Huh?

Are we talking about a French colony that had existed for over 100 years?



Yeah....I'm familiar with the cold war.

Do you know what the communist Vietnamese supported after they won?

While the war was going on?



I don't recall the treaty.



I was under the impression that the French were still fighting when we entered. Barely, but still fighting.



Napoleon meant a lot to a lot of people. What's your point?



Huh?

Are we talking about a French colony that had existed for over 100 years?



Yeah....I'm familiar with the cold war.

Do you know what the communist Vietnamese supported after they won?

 

[durangodawood]

not at all but we are talking about the life span of the earth and that is totally up to God, it will end when He decides it will end and nothing we can do will change that.

None of this has the slightest thing to do with the end of the earth. This is about whether we will foul our own nest, and diminish life on earth, or not. The planet itself will be fine either way.

 

[mark46]

None of this has the slightest thing to do with the end of the earth. This is about whether we will foul our own nest, and diminish life on earth, or not. The planet itself will be fine either way.

You mean that the planet will be fine, with or without human life?

 

[durangodawood]

You mean that the planet will be fine, with or without human life?

Yeah in the same way it was fine before the appearance of life.

 

[disciple Clint]

None of this has the slightest thing to do with the end of the earth. This is about whether we will foul our own nest, and diminish life on earth, or not. The planet itself will be fine either way.

Well maybe you should share that with the people who keep saying that global climate change is going to cause the end of the world, the predicted time of demise keeps changing but that is their claim.
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