Allah same as our God?

[SolomonVII]

God is transcendant, and basically is beyond our understanding.

What is left for us is to define not God,but our relationship with God.

For Jews, pm fairly good authority from reading posts by Orthodox Jew stillsmallvoice in the other religions forum, the relationship that Jews have between themselves and God is one of the greatest intimacy, as like Father and Child or even husband and wife.

This is essentially what the relationship of a Christian and God is like. Whether it be the personal relationship that is stressed by evangelical born-agains, of the marriage of the Bridegroom, Christ with his bride, the Church, the relationship is personal, familial and intimate.

while it is much more difficult to converse with Moslems on this subject, other than the fact that dealing with blunt statements that calling Allah Father or Son is blasphemous, the distinct impression I always get is that the relationship between themselves and God is almost exlclusively legalistic one, as between master and slave.

The religion of the Koran is more like a business contract than a marriage document.

So in sum, as God is wholly transcendant, what we are left with is describing a relationship.

And the relationship that a Moslem has with Allah is fundamentally different that the relationship that a Jew has with Yaweh, or that a Christian has with the Trinitarian "Family of God".

 

[PaladinValer]

Solomon, the "relationship" between a Catholic and a Protestant between God is different too. Are Protestants no longer now worshiping the same God?

Folks, please reread Ps139's posts, which seems to be the only set of truly logical posts I've seen here.

 

[SolomonVII]

Solomon, the "relationship" between a Catholic and a Protestant between God is different too. Are Protestants no longer now worshiping the same God?

Folks, please reread Ps139's posts, which seems to be the only set of truly logical posts I've seen here.

I didn't say nothing of the sort. I said that God is transcendant, and beyond our definition. What is said is that the r-e-l-a-t-i-o=n=s=h=i=p that a Jew is establishing with God is very similar to the r-e-l-a-t-i-o=n=s=h=i=p that some Christians are trying to establish with God.

As far as the r-e-l-a-t-i-o-n=s=h=i-p that Moslems seem to be establishing with God, it appears to me to be quite different. For a Sufi,it may be different, but I am only going by what I see people here write.

God does not change, and remains transcendant to anything we can say about Him. But our worship changes according to what we experience and what we are taught.

As for what protestants believe, I already mentioned that them as stressing their personal r-e-l-a-t-i-o=n=s=h=i=p with God, much as Catholics and Orthodox Jews apparently do.

 

[Rebirth In Flames]

I didn't say nothing of the sort.

Which means that you said something of the sort.

"I didn't say anything of the sort." Means that you didn't say anything.

 

[SolomonVII]

Which means that you said something of the sort.

"I didn't say anything of the sort." Means that you didn't say anything.

Don't tell me! Let me guess!

Your mother is an English teacher!!

Right??

Right???!!!





Just for that don't expect me to wish you a happy birthday anytime soon this week









oh what that heck. Happy birthday anyways!

 

[PaladinValer]

I didn't say nothing of the sort. I said that God is transcendant, and beyond our definition. What is said is that the r-e-l-a-t-i-o=n=s=h=i=p that a Jew is establishing with God is very similar to the r-e-l-a-t-i-o=n=s=h=i=p that some Christians are trying to establish with God.

As far as the r-e-l-a-t-i-o-n=s=h=i-p that Moslems seem to be establishing with God, it appears to me to be quite different. For a Sufi,it may be different, but I am only going by what I see people here write.

God does not change, and remains transcendant to anything we can say about Him. But our worship changes according to what we experience and what we are taught.

As for what protestants believe, I already mentioned that them as stressing their personal r-e-l-a-t-i-o=n=s=h=i=p with God, much as Catholics and Orthodox Jews apparently do.

Your reasoning is completely illogical. A Baptist worships God differently than you or I. So I guess Baptists don't worship the same God by your rediculous suggestion.

The very fact that the word "Allah" and "Eloi" are literally translatable is enough to prove that all three faiths worship the same Being.

Unless of course Jesus was full of nonsense. After all, He was a good JEW.

The amount of Marcionism going on in this thread is truly sad.

 

[SolomonVII]

Gosh, Paladin I am rolling those right to you, and they are still bouncing a way over your head.

But then, I've read your posts before. You are not really having a problem with anything I said, I'm guessing.

What I think you are having problems with has already been highlighted (JEW.)


And I am way confident of that than of the idea that Rebirth In Flames has a schoolmarm for a mom.

 

[SolomonVII]

StillSmallVoice has given a very beautiful reply in this linked thread. He is an orthodox Jew, but I think that his last reply captures the very essence of the Christian message of who the Father is.

His reply is so intimate that it is almost too embarrassing to read for an redneck such as myself. I can only wish that most Christians could know a relationship with God such as this, myself included!

What I am saying is that he really knows the Father with that reply. In comparison, many Moslems usually leave me the impression that they are just dropping names.

And for what it is worth, just to be clear, I think that most Baptists try and stress their personal relationship with Jesus too.

Except for Uncle Bud. Man. I just don't get his sense of humor.







Just kidding, Uncle B., wherever you may be.
(even if I really don't get your sense of humor).

 

[SolomonVII]

You are putting words into my mouth. I'm nowhere near a universalist. And I think that when people worship a false god, they are either worshipping nothing, or the devil. (or themselves). But I am reluctant to say that a little Muslim girl who never gets let out of the house, who has been virtually brainwashed to think that Christians are evil, and who sincerely seeks to know God - I don't believe she is damned to hell because of where she was born. I believe God gives everyone an equal chance at salvation and that it does not depend on the time or place where you were born. And when she dies and is judged, she just may see in Jesus the Person who she has been longing for her whole life but was never able to really learn about. And then she will run to Him like the prodigal son when he returns home.

To my way of understanding, if God portrayed falsely, we are being led to believe in a false god.
And what are heresies but setting up false images of God for us to worship?

The fate of spinners of heresies, such as I believe Mohammed was, is spelled out below:

From Luke 7?
1 He said to his disciples, "Things that cause sin will inevitably occur, but woe to the person through whom they occur. 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were put around his neck and he be thrown into the sea than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.
People that have been taught false doctrines are in grave danger, otherwise why would the fate of their teachers be so horrible.

And yet, the fate of the little ones brought into sin is not not spelled out with as much certainty. This could be an indication of God's infinite grace.

Or, it could just be an indication of different gradations of hell.

 

[AliOgg]

Ok. Prolly got your attention here. Ok. Trace back when it was the jews around. I dont know the details, but this is biblical. Somewhere along the line the jews get split up and the arabs came to be. So the arabs would keep the same jaweh. So... they develope their own lil life style... So since the Jewish's God is our God, would that make the Allah the same?

Same God, there is only One, the difference seems to be about the Word of God and in what manner He should be worshiped and obeyed

And God Bless All His Peoples.

 

[mrcrow]

Ok. Prolly got your attention here. Ok. Trace back when it was the jews around. I dont know the details, but this is biblical. Somewhere along the line the jews get split up and the arabs came to be. So the arabs would keep the same jaweh. So... they develope their own lil life style... So since the Jewish's God is our God, would that make the Allah the same?

there is one god....the names come from us...or them whatever you wish to decide they are
enki
ea
ai
amma
alla
adonai
elohanu
............................the generic category for those names is god...
adonai ehad!..and my arab/muslim friends agree

 

[SolomonVII]

Baal
Ba' El
Elohim
Al lah

 

[SolomonVII]

Abraham and Sarah
Ab'Ram

Ram or, Brahma

Sarah Saraivisita (Ram's consort)

 

[PaladinValer]

So YHVH is Pagan?

Congradulations! You've finally proven Christianity is rediculous, since most of God's "names" are Pagan in origin.

You've totally missed the point, Solomon.

 

[SolomonVII]

So YHVH is Pagan?

Congradulations! You've finally proven Christianity is rediculous, since most of God's "names" are Pagan in origin.

You've totally missed the point, Solomon.

No, dear PaladinVader, I haven't missed any points at all. Modern archeology and the past two hundred years of bibilical criticism have made their case about how the the religion of the Bible is the same as everything that has come before.

There is at least one person on Liberal Forums here, -Toney, I believe- that appears quite knowledgeable about these things. ONe of the better Anglican posters here, Polycarp1, also gives hints about having knowledge of such things. No doubt though, he has found it rather pointless to discuss them much here in these forums.

The point, I am making, which nobody seems to have picked up on yet, is not to stress what makes our faith the same, but what makes the Bible and our faith in the Triune God unique.

And make no doubt about it. I do believe the Bible religions to have a unique perspective.

To the extent that Judaism has remained true to Old Testament Scriptures, they share with us that message that becomes so explicit in the New Testament.

To the extent that Moslems reject the Bible as flawed, and don't bother with reading it, they are yet blinded to some very essential revelations of Yaweh and Christ that are only contained in the Bible.

Like Baal, to the extent that the Biblical Elohim is ignored, the 'God' of these heretics can only serve as a very corrupt icon of the One, True God. (Following Hilaire Beloc, I tend to consider Islam to be the most successful heresy of our catholic faith).

If we are only to go on an analysis of linguistics and the history of theological ideas, a good case can be, and has been made for the pagan origins of the idea of the Hebrew God from a henothiestic Canaanite culture.

But just as we all know that when proclaim 'Amen', we are not proclaiming our allegiance to Amenhotep of Egyptian mytholgy, we also all know that Yaweh is not Baal, in spite of linguistic, archeological, or historical theories.

And just as a postscript PaladinVader, if you are going to use your obvious intelligence and education to put me down, don't you think it would come off just a little better if you actually learned how to spell such words as 'ridiculous', or 'congratulations' first?

(and no, Rebirth In Flames, my mommy was not an English teacher, so don't even think about saying anything).

Oh just one more item of a personal note, PaladinVader. Even when I may often disagree with them myself, I find your constant habit of comparing other Christians here to ancient heretics to be extremely rude.

Okay, your turn. Other than being rediculous and illogical, are there any other things that you don't like about me? (I'm just not feeling the love, you know what I mean?)
If I know more about which of my many faults everyone finds particularily grating, maybe I can change.

 

[PaladinValer]

Muslims are not heretics however. Theirs' is an entirely different religion.

 

[Bulldog]

Paladinvaler, are you asserting that true worship with is possible even while denying that deity of Christ?

 

[PaladinValer]

Bulldog, read my posts. Do I make that assertion?

 

[Bulldog]

I'm confused. If I understand yor position, you believe that Islam has the same God as Christianity and Judaism but does not worship God in truth?

 

[PaladinValer]

It is very simple.

They worship the same deity; only one worships in all Truth. Just because the other two don't doesn't mean they worship the same deity.

Unless, of course, the Marcionist heresy, which is sadly prevelant in this thread, is truth and Christianity a lie...