All things

[Hammster]

Alright. Was your question:

1) Did God the Father "determine" our Lord's crucifixion?

or

2) Did God the Father "order judicially" our Lord's crucifixion?

I don't think that either of those questions makes sense, but perhaps you can clarify what you want to know.

I already know.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I have the app.

verb

2: to determine or order judicially

I admire your restraint, brother. If I didn't know better, I'd say he was stalling for time.

 

[Swag365]

I already know.

What you know is wrong.

 

[chad kincham]

No, the Reformed view is that Satan is on a leash, and God can tighten or loosen that leash to accomplish His plan. See: the cross.

The Bible view, is Satan is god of this world, that steals kills, and destroys, that we fight against and have to put on all the armor God has available to win that fight, and that everyone Jesus healed was sick because of the devil, not because God decreed their sickness.

Shalom.

 

[All Glory To God]

Yes, God's perfect will is not playing out at this time.

Per Matthew 6:10, Jesus commanded us to pray "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". Be is in the present tense. Since Jesus will only command us to pray God's perfect will, we know that God's Perfect Will is where what is happening in heaven occurs here on earth. There is no sin, sickness, depression, or demon possession in heaven; therefore God's perfect will is not being done on earth at this time.

How can Gods plan be perfect if his will isn't being done?

 

[Hmm]

How can Gods plan be perfect if his will isn't being done?

Perhaps it's like a game of chess. In theory it's possible to play a perfect game (because the number of possible games is finite). So whatever move your opponent makes, there is always counter-move that will lead towards either a win or a draw.

The point is that God's outcome is assurred even if we don't make the move that He would ideally like us to make. Even if we [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] up and make a terrible mistake He will adapt His response to bring about His ultimate plan.

 

[All Glory To God]

Perhaps it's like a game of chess. In theory it's possible to play a perfect game (because the number of possible games is finite). So whatever move your opponent makes, there is always counter-move that will lead towards either a win or a draw.

The point is that God's outcome is assurred even if we don't make the move that He would ideally like us to make. Even if we [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] up and make a terrible mistake He will adapt His response to bring about His ultimate plan.

So we are playing chess with God?

 

[Hmm]

So we are playing chess with God?

You have entirely misunderstood what I was saying. No mean achievement

 

[Hammster]

I admire your restraint, brother. If I didn't know better, I'd say he was stalling for time.

Not my first rodeo.

 

[Hammster]

What you know is wrong.

No. God doesn’t just wait to see what will happen and then tries to make it all work out. He plans, and things happen.

For instance:


For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
— Acts 4:27-28

 

[Hammster]

The Bible view, is Satan is god of this world, that steals kills, and destroys, that we fight against and have to put on all the armor God has available to win that fight, and that everyone Jesus healed was sick because of the devil, not because God decreed their sickness.

Shalom.

You make it sound like God is impotent.

 

[Swag365]

God doesn’t just wait to see what will happen and then tries to make it all work out.

Irrelevant. I never wrote that.

 

[NBB]

God diddn't decide every action of man beforehand, that like planning for something you think is wrong to someone to do it, and then tell them its wrong and they need to correct that when they do it. zero sense.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That is, of course, your view of what happens. We don't know what little or lot he does, except what we see, and even that is interpreted by us according to our values.

I do not deny, (far from it), that God uses means to accomplish his ends, but he still completes precisely what he set out to do from the very beginning, and that is in EVERY detail. God "allowing" logically turns out to be the same as God "causing", but by use of means.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Hammster]

God diddn't decide every action of man beforehand, that like planning for something you think is wrong to someone to do it, and then tell them its wrong and they need to correct that when they do it. zero sense.

I don’t think that argument has been made.

 

[NBB]

I don’t think that argument has been made.

But you say God 'decreed' everything even evil actions, i'm pretty sure you were arguing that.

 

[John Mullally]

How can Gods plan be perfect if his will isn't being done?

Although his perfect will is not being done on earth at this time, I would never challenge God on his plan as that is his business. Realize that this is not a dilemma for non-Calvanists.

As to God's perfect will: We can make a small difference in his perfect will being done here - per the instructions of Matthew 6:10.

And don't forget to put on the armor of God (in Ephesians 6) - because God is not going to do that (or any other of his directives) for anyone:

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.​

 

[Hammster]

But you say God 'decreed' everything even evil actions, i'm pretty sure you were arguing that.

Yes.

 

[ewq1938]

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

Upon further review, this thread had a clean up and is reopened.


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